[QUOTE=JDK721v2;22333298]Well, the UK doesn't allow concealed carry so a law abiding citizen probably wouldn't be walking around with a pistol on him. So basically you have a criminal armed to the teeth vs. a defenseless law abiding citizen.[/QUOTE]
Have you read anything that has been posted?
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Holy shit, gun crime in Japan is so low it's now bringing people back to life
[QUOTE=BlazeFresh;22333365]Which basically shows that even though the law does cut down on gun crime, it also causes civillians to not be able to defend themselves in lethal situations against criminals with illegal firearms?[/QUOTE]
Correlation does not imply causation.
[QUOTE=Idi Amin;22333347]you live in a 3rd world country?[/QUOTE]
No, I live in the UK.
[QUOTE=BAZ;22333287]Handgun laws used to be alot more laxed, but after a school shooting with a handgun they were tightened up. Handguns are far too easy to conceal in public, which greatly increases the chance of a crazed shooting.[/QUOTE]
What i'm talking about is very tight control i.e. you only ever touch your gun at a shooting range where it is logged and only transported by the government, the British Olympic shooting team has to train abroad because of our gun laws. I think it's a good idea to keep guns out of peoples hands on the streets and in the home but in a place they can do no harm, why not.
[QUOTE=BlazeFresh;22333365]Which basically shows that even though the law does cut down on gun crime, it also causes civillians to not be able to defend themselves in lethal situations against criminals with illegal firearms?[/QUOTE]
Except, getting guns is alot harder from the beginning. So the chances of that situation ever happening are massivley reduced.
[QUOTE=Conn92;22333394]No, I live in the UK.[/QUOTE]
which according to you is like detroit as seen in robocop?
[QUOTE=Idi Amin;22333403]which according to you is like detroit as seen in robocop?[/QUOTE]
I've never watched Robocop. But yes, if I go for a stroll myself through most of the areas surrounding my town at about 10 o'clock on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday night, there's a 4/5 chance I'll get a kicking.
[QUOTE=Conn92;22333459]I've never watched Robocop. But yes, if I go for a stroll myself through most of the areas surrounding my town at about 10 o'clock on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday night, there's a 4/5 chance I'll get a kicking.[/QUOTE]
I seriously doubt that, mate.
[QUOTE=BAZ;22333401]Except, getting guns is alot harder from the beginning. So the chances of that situation ever happening are massivley reduced.[/QUOTE]
However when it does, people are helpless. And armed police will always be too late.
Do you think that he would have been shot dead by civillians carrying arms if he had done the same in the United States? Or do you think they would leave it for the police?
[QUOTE=Conn92;22333459]I've never watched Robocop. But yes, if I go for a stroll myself through most of the areas surrounding my town at about 10 o'clock on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday night, there's a 4/5 chance I'll get a kicking.[/QUOTE]
as far as I'm concerned wouldn't that be cause for the removal of gun control to allow self protection?
[QUOTE=BlazeFresh;22333527]However when it does, people are helpless. And armed police will always be too late.
Do you think that he would have been shot dead by civillians carrying arms if he had done the same in the United States? Or do you think they would leave it for the police?[/QUOTE]
It really depends. 11 people were killed in an Alabama shooting spree last year:
[url]http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7052272&page=1[/url]
And there are a shitload of gun owners in Alabama.
[QUOTE=erazor;22333475]I seriously doubt that, mate.[/QUOTE]
Doubt all you wish, it's the truth.
Infact, last time I got attacked was not too long ago, in broad daylight, about 100 metres from my school on a wednesday afternoon. I was walking through the park myself because I went home since I had a free period 5th, when 4 guys walked past me. One of them punched me in the side of the face just as they were passing so I didn't see it coming, I turned around to confront him and started walking towards him, took about 2 steps and his larger friend, with slash marks down his face, started taking off his jacket and threatened to stab me if I said anything to his friend. I turned around and walked away. They'd been up at my school about 30 minutes previously threatening staff and pupils with knives. You can doubt what you want, but the truth is the area I live in isn't particularly rough and this shit still happens here.
[QUOTE=JDK721v2;22333584]It really depends. 11 people were killed in an Alabama shooting spree last year:
[URL]http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7052272&page=1[/URL]
And there are a shitload of gun owners in Alabama.[/QUOTE]
That's true, and seems to be literally the american version of this particular shooting.
However i'm not actually sure how many Americans carry guns on a day to day basis, but i suspect alot more have them in their homes.
[QUOTE=BlazeFresh;22333527]However when it does, people are helpless. And armed police will always be too late.
Do you think that he would have been shot dead by civillians carrying arms if he had done the same in the United States? Or do you think they would leave it for the police?[/QUOTE]
I've never heard of a civilian in the US managing to take out someone on a killing spree. Most people generally just get their heads down. People may talk tough, thinking that if they were in the situation it'd be just like the movies, but when the shit goes down its usually only the police that have the balls to sort it out.
[QUOTE=Idi Amin;22333582]as far as I'm concerned wouldn't that be cause for the removal of gun control to allow self protection?[/QUOTE]
Not really, if I had access to a gun they would as well, the only difference would be they'd be less hesistant to shoot me.
[QUOTE=Kade;22333657]I've never heard of a civilian in the US managing to take out someone on a killing spree. Most people generally just get their heads down. People may talk tough, thinking that if they were in the situation it'd be just like the movies, but when the shit goes down its usually only the police that have the balls to sort it out.[/QUOTE]
There have been school shootings stopped by people who got their own gun. And no, that's really not how it works. The police aren't the only ones with balls to stop something like that. There have been plenty of cases where another person with a gun stopped a shooter.
[QUOTE=JDK721v2;22333714]There have been school shootings stopped by people who got their own gun. And no, that's really not how it works. The police aren't the only ones with balls to stop something like that. There have been plenty of cases where another person with a gun stopped a shooter.[/QUOTE]
Would you mind naming some? I'd like to have a look into them
[QUOTE=Conn92;22333659]Not really, if I had access to a gun they would as well, the only difference would be they'd be less hesistant to shoot me.[/QUOTE]
except thats not how purchasing things works. Criminals don't buy firearms legally for many reasons, including cost, backround checks and the fact that it slightly puts you on the spot.
(In the US anyway, in your fucked up Britannia-detroit world I bet some terrorists would just crash their jetpacks into gunstores and have their chavs run in and steal everything.)
[QUOTE=BlazeFresh;22333758]Would you mind naming some? I'd like to have a look into them[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting[/url]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker_Middle_School_dance_shooting[/url]
[QUOTE=Idi Amin;22333760]except thats not how purchasing things works. Criminals don't buy firearms legally for many reasons, including cost, backround checks and the fact that it slightly puts you on the spot.
(In the US anyway, in your fucked up Britannia-detroit world I bet some terrorists would just crash their jetpacks into gunstores and have their chavs run in and steal everything.)[/QUOTE]
The people I'm talking about aren't hardened criminals with records, just thugs on the street who would pick a fight with anyone for something to do. They'd be more than capable of acquiring a firearm one way or another.
[QUOTE=Idi Amin;22333760]except thats not how purchasing things works. Criminals don't buy firearms legally for many reasons, including cost, backround checks and the fact that it slightly puts you on the spot.
(In the US anyway, in your fucked up Britannia-detroit world I bet some terrorists would just crash their jetpacks into gunstores and have their chavs run in and steal everything.)[/QUOTE]
The fact that firearms are legal to import lets criminals get their hands on them much more easily.
then what does it matter if you ban them or not
[editline]06:30PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=erazor;22333848]The fact that firearms are legal to import lets criminals get their hands on them much more easily.[/QUOTE]
they aren't legal to import without very sexy credentials.
I'm happy living in a civilisation where the possibility of a massacre situation, like this, are extremely low, at the expense of not being able to carry firearms. This guy was reported to have been shooting people while driving in his land rover, could a civilian with a gun be able to analyse this , completely unexpected situation, pull out there gun and then shoot the driver before he'd driven away?
[QUOTE=Idi Amin;22333855]then what does it matter if you ban them or not
[editline]06:30PM[/editline]
they aren't legal to import without very sexy credentials.[/QUOTE]
I mean if they were legal. I'm sure someone in a gang of maybe 15 would have a relative with a gun they could blag for a night
[QUOTE=BAZ;22333882]I'm happy living in a civilisation where the possibility of a massacre situation, like this, are extremely low, at the expense of not being able to carry firearms. This guy was reported to have been shooting people while driving in his land rover, could a civilian with a gun be able to analyse this , completely unexpected situation, pull out there gun and then shoot the driver before he'd driven away?[/QUOTE]
guns aren't rocket science
[QUOTE=BAZ;22333882]I'm happy living in a civilisation where the possibility of a massacre situation, like this, are extremely low, at the expense of not being able to carry firearms. This guy was reported to have been shooting people while driving in his land rover, could a civilian with a gun be able to analyse this , completely unexpected situation, pull out there gun and then shoot the driver before he'd driven away?[/QUOTE]
Do you feel happy living in a country with rising crime rates? Here in the US we have guns, they are getting easier to get, concealed carry is spreading rapidly, and crime rates are dropping.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;22334021]Do you feel happy living in a country with rising crime rates? Here in the US we have guns, they are getting easier to get, concealed carry is spreading rapidly, and crime rates are dropping.[/QUOTE]
Our rising crime rates have nothing to do with the current laws on guns. And maybe your crime rates are dropping, but even so, our gun crime rates are still so much lower than yours.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;22334021]Do you feel happy living in a country with rising crime rates? Here in the US we have guns, they are getting easier to get, concealed carry is spreading rapidly, and crime rates are dropping.[/QUOTE]
I'm willing to bet that the current state of the economy has much more to do with crime rates than being able to carry a gun hidden.
[QUOTE=Idi Amin;22334019]guns aren't rocket science[/QUOTE]
Wow, so the gun does all the analyzing of the situation?!
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