Edward Snowden Confirms Cyber Weapon "Stuxnet" Was Created By U.S And Israel To Target Iran's Nuclea - Polidicks

[QUOTE=lolz3;41387085]Newsflash. Everyone spies on everyone. The world needs to stop being so fucking hypocritical with the "OH! OH! LOOK ONLY USA DOES THIS!!"[/QUOTE] Newsflash. Everyone lies. The world needs to stop being so fucking hypocritical with the "OH! OH! LOOK ONLY BAD PEOPLE TELL LIES!!" Just because everyone does it doesn't mean it's right. On the case of these two things (spying and lying) they can, indeed, be good at occasions (to prevent terrorist attacks or to avoid hurting someone's feelings for instance), but if you're going to spy on literally EVERY single one of your citizens (or you're going to blatantly lie to everyone about anything all the time) it is plain wrong. Besides, no one is implying that only the U.S. does this kind of spying. We could say though, it is the country that does the most active spying in the world.

[QUOTE=Nestophales;41384173]We already knew this. Whats he gonna leak next, Lee Harvey shot JFK?[/QUOTE] That a CIA agent was on the grassy knoll. And with that, I disappear.

[QUOTE=lolz3;41386567]Said it better then I could have. I hope he's killed or something.[/QUOTE] YEEUH, DIRTY COMMUNISTS.

I'm sure this will help our relations with Iran

I wonder how much money was allocated on stuxnet seeing how Iran doesn't even have the tech to produce weapons of mass destruction at this time.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;41383998]Doesn't seem like that was a bad thing. I mean in terms of comparasion. The cyber weapon was used right - even if it was an outright intervention into iran's internal stuff it was done for good and, from what I understood, disabled the systems so no people were killed.[/QUOTE] The US and Isreal are only attacking the Iranian Nuclear Program on an assumption. They assume that Iran will use their program to develop nuclear weapons, but you cannot hold a country back from obtaining clean energy on an assumption. Hell, it's not their place to make decisions for an independent nation to begin with. Also, although this particular operation had no casualties, it is not unknown that Israel and/or the US have most likely been assassinating Iranian Nuclear Scientists, the most recent of which being last year.

[QUOTE=The golden;41387765]Any other cover-ups of disgusting illegal activities that you would like to try and justify? You are in almost every one of these threads trying to paint Snowden as a horrible criminal and justifying US activity and that it should remain a secret. Sorry but the people of the US should have the right to know what their elected officials are doing. And the people of foreign lands should have the right to know when another country is spying on them. How you consider this acceptable is beyond me.[/QUOTE] That's why intelligence agencies have a little section called "COUNTER-intelligence" Goverment spying is bad, no question about it, but is a necesary evil. Intelligence is supposed to act beyond the law [I]without[/I] going against the law. Sure, is idealistic and stupid to believe that every intelligence agency is going to spy only on other goverments and militaries, but that's where the civilian factor comes in. The opportunity for the common people to reveal and stop illegal practices.

[QUOTE=Wafflemonstr;41387494]The US and Isreal are only attacking the Iranian Nuclear Program on an assumption. They assume that Iran will use their program to develop nuclear weapons, but you cannot hold a country back from obtaining clean energy on an assumption. Hell, it's not their place to make decisions for an independent nation to begin with. Also, although this particular operation had no casualties, it is not unknown that Israel and/or the US have most likely been assassinating Iranian Nuclear Scientists, the most recent of which being last year.[/QUOTE] Which is why [I]the entire security council[/I] has asked for better oversight on Iranian nuclear reactors before the move forward. Which they have wholeheartedly rejected.

so you guys are against snowden revealing the US commiting actual acts of war alongside israel against iran by hacking? lets not even get at the fact mossad constantly tries(and sometimes succedes at killing iranian scientists).

[QUOTE=lolz3;41387085]Newsflash. Everyone spies on everyone. The world needs to stop being so fucking hypocritical with the "OH! OH! LOOK ONLY USA DOES THIS!!"[/QUOTE] So you don't give a fuck that your country violates its people's constitutional rights? Way to go buddy.

[QUOTE=The golden;41387765]Any other cover-ups of disgusting illegal activities that you would like to try and justify? You are in almost every one of these threads trying to paint Snowden as a horrible criminal and justifying US activity and that it should remain a secret. Sorry but the people of the US should have the right to know what their elected officials are doing. And the people of foreign lands should have the right to know when another country is spying on them. How you consider this acceptable is beyond me.[/QUOTE] I find it absurd that I have to defend the notion of a government keeping secrets from the public. If you're going to apply that standard of 'foreigners ought to know we're spying on them' fairly, then we ought to tell Taliban insurgents (they're Afghani, Iraqi, and Pakistani citizens, after all) that we're spying on them. Does that seem off to you? There's no way we can have a functioning military, intelligence, or counter-intelligence operation with every last detail of what they do known to the public. This is why we have courts, committees, and other aspects of judicial oversight. The people as a whole may not know, but things are meant to be kept in check by officials chosen by the people and courts that represent the people. It doesn't always work properly and it can be abused, but the alternative is ineffectual. What I'm really wondering is where the people calling Snowden a hero will draw the line. If revealing an operation against Iran that has no harm against the American people, no Constitution-violating principles, just another ordinary intelligence operation, is whistleblowing, then what next? Will it still be whistleblowing if he leaks information on military deployments? Maybe names of undercover operatives? Sensitive security data that could be used to evade the police and FBI? Or is literally anything he gives out whistleblowing simply because it's meant to be secret?

[QUOTE=catbarf;41392214]I find it absurd that I have to defend the notion of a government keeping secrets from the public. If you're going to apply that standard of 'foreigners ought to know we're spying on them' fairly, then we ought to tell Taliban insurgents (they're Afghani, Iraqi, and Pakistani citizens, after all) that we're spying on them. Does that seem off to you? There's no way we can have a functioning military, intelligence, or counter-intelligence operation with every last detail of what they do known to the public. This is why we have courts, committees, and other aspects of judicial oversight. The people as a whole may not know, but things are meant to be kept in check by officials chosen by the people and courts that represent the people. It doesn't always work properly and it can be abused, but the alternative is ineffectual. What I'm really wondering is where the people calling Snowden a hero will draw the line. If revealing an operation against Iran that has no harm against the American people, no Constitution-violating principles, just another ordinary intelligence operation, is whistleblowing, then what next? Will it still be whistleblowing if he leaks information on military deployments? Maybe names of undercover operatives? Sensitive security data that could be used to evade the police and FBI? Or is literally anything he gives out whistleblowing simply because it's meant to be secret?[/QUOTE] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope[/URL] so far he's released stuff about PRISM and stuxnet it's a far cry from him saying about military deployments and undercover operatives

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;41386728]Because it's looking more and more that he's not the white knight who saw PRISM and said "wow this is fucked up" and more like "fuck these guys, i'm stealing as much info as I can and leaking it all, who cares if it's relevant or not, if it's secret, it's getting out"[/QUOTE] Considering we already know for some time that he went to work for the NSA with that purpose in mind, that's not really news.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;41392370]so far he's released stuff about PRISM and stuxnet it's a far cry from him saying about military deployments and undercover operatives[/QUOTE] I'm asking how far he'd have to go before people here start to view his actions as something other than heroic. That isn't a slippery slope argument, a slippery slope argument would be arguing that because he's released X it's surely going to lead to him releasing Y. I'm not saying anything is definitely going to happen, I'm asking what it would take for people lauding him as a whistleblower to reconsider. I'm starting to think that some people here will cheer him on no matter what he releases or who he releases it to.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;41386620]Why? This information was released and not a single fuck was collectively given. If the american people grow any more apathetic, they will simply stop breathing, as they dont care enough to. Why bother letting people know if they don't care?[/QUOTE] The secrets and non-disclosing, more powerful government have lead people to being apathetic about these sort of things. People aren't willing to stand up about certain things either because they feel they can't or they don't have the full details to understand what would be affected.

This is actually really fascinating. I didn't even know that in 2012 it was already reported that the U.S was involved in it, but to have this information only makes it more devious.

[QUOTE=MuffinZerg;41383998]Doesn't seem like that was a bad thing. I mean in terms of comparasion. The cyber weapon was used right - even if it was an outright intervention into iran's internal stuff it was done for good and, from what I understood, disabled the systems so no people were killed.[/QUOTE] It disabled the systems of nuclear reactors proven to be used primarily, if not fully, got medical isotopes used to help medical sciences and save lives. So no one died directly, but we effectively said "fuck you" to a bunch of civilians who were kinda relying on that shit. [editline]10th July 2013[/editline] Also, alot of people are having a fit that he's releasing things, and attacking him for it, defending the government in keeping secrets, etc. Snowden has yet to release anything that puts anyone in danger, so let's get that one out of the way: he hasn't put anyone in danger except for himself, he has not, therefore committed any crimes that would be actually detrimental. He has informed no Taliban nor released any troop movements, gave away any NBC plans, or released the location of the president's vacation home. He has simply released information that purports America's interventionist and spying nature, that proves America is doing things that [I]the people who this government is supposedly responsible to abide by[/I] would not approve of nor let happen if they knew of it. Given the choice, most Americans would not get involved with Iran like this nor allow themselves to be spied on. This is a government. There are things that governments reasonably can be assumed to do, which are based out of the common support and interest. Thing like troop movements or weapons plans are among those. These are things that, with the consent of the governed, are classified or censored because it is in the interest of the governed that they remain so. Even though I personally think that it is unjustified, I understand this point of view. A defector is one who wishes harm against a government that they are/were part of, and as such seeks to release the information [I]contrary to the public's/governed's wishes[/I]. A wistleblower is something different: a whistleblower is one who releases information that purports things that the public would not want- information that the governed [I]wants to know[/I] that is being hidden. Nixon stealing, the escalation of Vietnam based on a lie, the real state of that war, massacres and major losses, real motivations....these are things that the public should reasonably know, and that the governed would want to know in order to best make decisions they expect the government to abide by and through. A whistleblower [I]informs[/I], a defector [I]makes vulnerable[/I]. Explain to me which of these Snowden belongs to.

[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];41396677']It disabled the systems of nuclear reactors proven to be used primarily, if not fully, got medical isotopes used to help medical sciences and save lives. [/QUOTE] Not true, Iran has the capability to enrich up to %100. That serves no peaceful purpose. And 12,000 centrifuges in just one facility sure are a lot for "research". And why does Iran need it's own enrichment facilities anyways, can't they just pay Russia for the enrichment, like they did before they built the facilities. Sure is a lot of investment in this.

[QUOTE=Disotrtion;41398089]Not true, Iran has the capability to enrich up to %100. That serves no peaceful purpose. And 12,000 centrifuges in just one facility sure are a lot for "research". And why does Iran need it's own enrichment facilities anyways, can't they just pay Russia for the enrichment, like they did before they built the facilities. Sure is a lot of investment in this.[/QUOTE] Last I knew the UN was reporting they [I]could[/I] enrich up to 97% in [I]some[/I] reactors, but as of yet they have only been observed to enich between 27 and 40%, which is at the normal-high end of peaceful and medical enrichment. Capability means nothing if they aren't doing it. As of yet, you can't make nuclear weapons out of 27% enriched uranium. And who gives a fuck if: 1) they're exercising their right as a sovereign nation to have nuclear plants 2) they even use those- which there's no evidence of- to create fissile material to make nuclear weapons Yes, they'd void their position as signees on the NPT but the US does worse on a daily basis to applause and shouts. It just sounds to me like you have loads of paranoid Americans putting the blame on a developed/ing nation that hates the American government and trying to find excuses. They can do whatever they want, they're a sovereign fucking nation.

hoooooly shit. the flamer virus was coded by gov agents who forcefully acquired microsoft's encryption codes? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flame_%28malware%29[/url] basically, flame was a variant of stuxnet that signed itself as a windows update, and could easily be sent through an MITM attack. MS later changed their signing code after the virus was caught. but, what if the agents were using their legal powers to just acquire the code from MS?

[QUOTE=Disotrtion;41398089]Not true, Iran has the capability to enrich up to %100. That serves no peaceful purpose.[/QUOTE] A lot of nuclear-powered countries have the "capability to enrich up to 100%" but that means jack shit. [QUOTE=Disotrtion;41398089]And 12,000 centrifuges in just one facility sure are a lot for "research". And why does Iran need it's own enrichment facilities anyways, can't they just pay Russia for the enrichment, like they did before they built the facilities. Sure is a lot of investment in this.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/un-sanctions-hit-hospitals-iran-running-out-of-life-saving-isotopes-a-670402.html[/URL] [quote] Isotopes are a rare commodity produced at only five sites worldwide. One of these, the High Flux Reactor in the Dutch town of Petten, currently accounts for 30 to 40 percent of worldwide production, but it is scheduled for retirement soon. Apart from the UN sanctions, so many restrictions -- particularly American -- on trade with Iran exist, that in practice nobody is willing to supply Iran with medical isotopes any longer. Out of dire necessity, Iran now uses its 41-year-old research reactor in Tehran -- originally constructed by the US -- exclusively for isotope production, a job which used to take only a day a week. However, the reactor's fuel, provided by Argentina in 1993, is quickly running out, the scientists said. Iranian leaders, including President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, say that Iran [URL="http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/spiegel-interview-with-iran-s-nuclear-ambassador-we-have-nothing-to-hide-a-663063.html"]might produce new fuel itself[/URL], which would prove a sensitive issue. Iran would need to enrich uranium up to 19.75 percent purity, which would not only be a gross violation of UN sanctions -- it would also bring the country one step closer to the militarization of its nuclear program. [/quote] [quote]Ruhollah Solook, 78, was dying before a donated kidney and complex radiotherapy saved his life. Recovering in an isolation room in Tehran's oldest hospital, he expressed his joy in a telephone interview. "They saved my life already. I hope they will be able to cure me entirely now." But Solook's treatment has become a race against time, as has that of 850,000 other Iranians suffering from heart and kidney disease and various cancers. Sometime after March 2010, the country will run out of technetium-99, a radioisotope crucial to the treatment of these diseases. Technetium-99 is currently produced locally in Iran. "We recommend treatment with these products to hundreds of patients every month in our hospital alone," said Dr. Gholamreza Pourmand, Solook's physician. Technetium-99 is essential to radiotherapy, Pourmand said: "If we cannot help these people, some will die. It's as simple as that." [/quote]