Teen Dead In Officer Involved Shooting - Jesus, this was close - Polidicks

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901639]Well maybe they should have stayed 21 feet apart then or something? As far as I know the job of an officer is to keep the peace. What's the point of having police if all they do is charge at people who aren't threatening to hurt anybody else and turn suicide threats into homicides?[/QUOTE] What if the room they're in isn't even 21 feet wide? Buildings aren't open fields. [editline]25th May 2014[/editline] You make it sound like the first thing a police officer does when they respond to dispatch is bust through the door with guns blazing.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901639]Well maybe they should have stayed 21 feet apart then or something? As far as I know the job of an officer is to keep the peace. What's the point of having police if all they do is charge at people who aren't threatening to hurt anybody else and turn suicide threats into homicides?[/QUOTE] Unless it's a mansion it's hard to stay that far away inside a home. When someone is suicidal it's been proven that having someone attempt to talk to the person has a better chance at ending the situation peacefully. As I stated before people specially trained to handle suicidal people are not the first to respond and take some time to get to the scene. Even if the first officer on the scene can't solve the situation they can buy time for the trained personnel to.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;44901653]What if the room they're in isn't even 21 feet wide? Buildings aren't open fields. [editline]25th May 2014[/editline] You make it sound like the first thing a police officer does when they respond to dispatch is bust through the door with guns blazing.[/QUOTE] Well they could have not busted down the door until they were prepared for the possibility that this teenager might do something stupid. They could have taken a few moments to formulate a better plan than "stroll right up to this armed individual and gun him down if he makes a move." They're cops; their job is to figure out how to handle situations like this.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;44901610]The unconditional police worship does get on my nerves. There is nothing that justifies shooting a teenager that isn't actively shooting back. But from the way some people here talk, there is nothing that justifies [I]not[/I] shooting, nor any reason to ask questions.[/QUOTE] So if an Officer responds to someone with a knife he should use his tazer, or his beanbag gun he carries with him, or his pepper spray right? So the assailant starts charging him with a knife and what if any of those things misfire and don't take the assailant down? How is he going to respond? Whip out his secondary like Call of Duty and bunny hop out of the way (see video below). There's a reason why he had his firearm out dude. If you just used your head and saw past your own emotional reaction you could think about this situation more rationally. A stupid 17 year old got shot, okay, he's 17 so what? Doesn't change the fact that he was an armed man charging an officer with a potentially lethal weapon. Mental Illness is not an excuse for stupid actions either, it takes a VERY serious Mental Illness (Psychotic Disorders, some Mood disorders, etc.) to relieve liability and responsibility from someone of their own actions.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;44901675]So if an Officer responds to someone with a knife he should use his tazer, or his beanbag gun he carries with him, or his pepper spray right? So the assailant starts charging him with a knife and what if any of those things misfire and don't take the assailant down? How is he going to respond? [/QUOTE] The person who was suicidal and alone died. If they had done literally nothing and had a smoke on the front porch this story couldn't have had a worse ending.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;44901568]Right, because the suicidal 17-year-old is a (person who knows how to use a knife effectively). :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] FTFY

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901674]Well they could have not busted down the door until they were prepared for the possibility that this teenager might do something stupid. They could have taken a few moments to formulate a better plan than "stroll right up to this armed individual and gun him down if he makes a move." They're cops; their job is to figure out how to handle situations like this.[/QUOTE] And now you're assuming that cops always go busting down doors. And in situations like these, you need to think fast or you could die.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901688]The person who was suicidal and alone died. If they had done literally nothing and had a smoke on the front porch this story couldn't have had a worse ending.[/QUOTE] The kid could have killed himself. I don't know what could be a worse ending then someone ending up dead regardless of how.

this thread is giving me serious yawmwen vibes

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;44901705]The kid could have killed himself. I don't know what could be a wise ending then someone ending up dead regardless of how.[/QUOTE] Or he could have not killed himself. All I know is that a cop going up to this armed kid and putting himself in harm's way certainly didn't [I]help[/I] the situation.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;44901610]The unconditional police worship does get on my nerves. There is nothing that justifies shooting a teenager that isn't actively shooting back. But from the way some people here talk, there is nothing that justifies [I]not[/I] shooting, nor any reason to ask questions.[/QUOTE] When you say that its not justified if the kids not shooting, well the kid was trying to stab the cop

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901688]The person who was suicidal and alone died. If they had done literally nothing and had a smoke on the front porch this story couldn't have had a worse ending.[/QUOTE] I'm glad you're psychic enough to know situations as they're developing as well as alternate scenarios without even knowing the teenager's name.

[QUOTE=Billy-Bobfred;44901732]When you say that its not justified if the kids not shooting, well the kid was trying to stab the cop[/QUOTE] Maybe the cop shouldn't have gone into stabbing-range? Maybe the cop could have predicted that moving into stabbing range would be dangerous and prepared a different response than "shoot the person I'm supposed to be saving"? Maybe they could have spent time making sure the area was clear and talking to him from a distance while awaiting proper counsel? Maybe they could have handled this in a million different ways, all infinitely less dangerous than the way they chose.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901747]Maybe the cop shouldn't have gone into stabbing-range? Maybe the cop could have predicted that moving into stabbing range would be dangerous and prepared a different response than "shoot the person I'm supposed to be saving"? Maybe they could have handled this in a million different ways, all infinitely less dangerous than the way they chose.[/QUOTE] I'm going to point out that the kid [I]might[/I] have hidden the knife so he could get the jump on the cop cause the cop is expecting someone who might need to be talked out of suicide

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901747]Maybe the cop shouldn't have gone into stabbing-range? Maybe the cop could have predicted that moving into stabbing range would be dangerous and prepared a different response than "shoot the person I'm supposed to be saving"? Maybe they could have spent time making sure the area was clear and talking to him from a distance while awaiting proper counsel? Maybe they could have handled this in a million different ways, all infinitely less dangerous than the way they chose.[/QUOTE] Maybe the kid shouldn't have been suicidal and this would have all been avoided, but he wasn't.

[QUOTE=Hat-Wearing Man;44901710]this thread is giving me serious yawmwen vibes[/QUOTE] SigmaLambda confirmed for Yawmen's alt.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901747]Maybe the cop shouldn't have gone into stabbing-range? Maybe the cop could have predicted that moving into stabbing range would be dangerous and prepared a different response than "shoot the person I'm supposed to be saving"? Maybe they could have spent time making sure the area was clear and talking to him from a distance while awaiting proper counsel? Maybe they could have handled this in a million different ways, all infinitely less dangerous than the way they chose.[/QUOTE] You're right. It's astounding that a police officer from the great town of Purcellville, Virginia, does not have foresight equal to your hindsight. Mind boggling indeed!

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901688]The person who was suicidal and alone died. If they had done literally nothing and had a smoke on the front porch this story couldn't have had a worse ending.[/QUOTE] Had the police not intervened and the man killed himself, there would be an outroar that the police are heartless and cold, and don't care about the people of America. It's a potential shitty ending either way.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;44901360]"They lunged and I had to shoot them" seems like an awfully common excuse for police shootings. It's the cop's word against a dead person, so who knows what actually happens, but sometimes it seems like the world has an awful lot of people willing to charge a gun-wielding cop armed with a knife or nothing at all. Does that police department not have a mental health responder for, I don't know, [I]exactly that scenario!?[/I] Imagine how the parents feel. They call the cops specifically because they want them to save their child's life, and instead a cop shows up and murders their child right in front of them. If a family member of mine was barricaded in a room and threatening to kill themselves, I don't think I would call the cops. I'll take my fucking chances handling the situation myself before I let some gun-toting cowboy with an itchy trigger finger come in my house.[/QUOTE] Hey, next time someone lunges at you just stand there for me and get back to me if you end up a ok thanks in advance

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;44901761]Maybe the kid shouldn't have been suicidal and this would have all been avoided, but he wasn't.[/QUOTE] The kid wasn't a public employee with a duty to uphold the peace. [QUOTE=Billy-Bobfred;44901760]I'm going to point out that the kid might have hidden the knife so he could get the jump on the cop cause the cop is expecting someone who might need to be talked out of suicide[/QUOTE] Surprising a cop and stabbing him before he has a chance to respond sounds like a really bad way to commit suicide-by-cop.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901727]Or he could have not killed himself. All I know is that a cop going up to this armed kid and putting himself in harm's way certainly didn't [I]help[/I] the situation.[/QUOTE] In hindsight vision is 20/20. I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune if the cop stopped the kid and everything ended alright. The fact of the matter is in this type of situation you never know what direction it's going to go. Weighing which option has more benefits vs the risk is a very tough decision to make. By going inside the office tried to help. If I were at a car accident and someone got their leg ripped off I would try and tie a tourniquet, because if I waited for the medical professionals to arrive the person would more than likely bleed out by then. If I fuck it up and the guy dies he dies, but at least I tried

[QUOTE=Protocol7;44901773]You're right. It's astounding that a police officer from the great town of Purcellville, Virginia, does not have foresight equal to your hindsight. Mind boggling indeed![/QUOTE] If he doesn't know how to not make a dangerous situation even more dangerous then maybe he shouldn't be a cop? I don't even know what happened, I just read a news article. I just don't think "the cop was justified, case closed" is the appropriate thing to say here.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901790]If he doesn't know how to not make a dangerous situation even more dangerous then maybe he shouldn't be a cop? I don't even know what happened, I just read a news article. I just don't think "the cop was justified, case closed" is the appropriate thing to say here.[/QUOTE] So you're saying you have a firsthand account of how the situation went, and therefore have a laundry list of suggestions that could have helped avoid or otherwise improve the situation? Give me a fucking break.

Quick, someone get sigma a title that reads Captain Hindsight

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901790]If he doesn't know how to not make a dangerous situation even more dangerous then maybe he shouldn't be a cop? I don't even know what happened, I just read a news article. I just don't think "the cop was justified, case closed" is the appropriate thing to say here.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esXJN_OTkmU[/media]

[QUOTE=Protocol7;44901804]So you're saying you have a firsthand account of how the situation went, and therefore have a laundry list of suggestions that could have helped avoid or otherwise improve the situation? Give me a fucking break.[/QUOTE] That's literally the polar opposite of what I said. I don't know why I bother debating if people are going to insist on being willfully illiterate.

You should become a cop SigmaLambda since you know how to handle dangerous situations

Could have just tazed him immediately, restrained him...rest is up to the shrinks. Guess less-lethal force wasn't thought out beforehand (and come on, given the situation)...how stupidly unprofessional.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;44901815]You should become a cop SigmaLambda since you know how to handle dangerous situations[/QUOTE] I'd be a better officer than Officer Facepunch, who is always prepared to kneecap teens, tweens, the mentally ill, and family pets who charge him with their expert training in knife fighting and hand-to-hand combat.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901814]That's literally the polar opposite of what I said. I don't know why I bother debating if people are going to insist on being willfully illiterate.[/QUOTE] Here we go with the debating about how we debate. The police officer did what he thought was best in saving the life of an innocent who was tempted to take their own life. He didn't have enough time to get backup that knew how to handle the situation. All he could do was try to calm down the perpetrator, or stand there and watch a potential suicide. He made an attempt to save a life, and it didn't work. I bet he feels shitty enough that he had to kill a kid, let alone get a bunch of people who aren't in his situation bitching at him for not taking "different measures" in approaching someone with a weapon.