Teen Dead In Officer Involved Shooting - Jesus, this was close - Polidicks

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901814]That's literally the polar opposite of what I said. I don't know why I bother debating if people are going to insist on being willfully illiterate.[/QUOTE] I don't know. It seems like you know a lot more than "the teenager, who was armed with a knife and lunged at the officer [...] the teenager was shot" which comes straight from the article. The kid could have charged at the officer. He could have disobeyed the officer's attempts at defusing the situation. Your idea of debating means putting the officer at fault for no discernible reason other than "well, he should have been able to do a better job." Furthermore, you are applying morals on paper to [I]a human being.[/I] Surprise surprise, sometimes decisions made may not seem like the best decisions.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901829]I'd be a better officer than Officer Facepunch, who is always prepared to kneecap teens, tweens, the mentally ill, and family pets who charge him with their expert training in knife fighting and hand-to-hand combat.[/QUOTE] Then go and show us! I'll be sure to visit your funeral.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901829]I'd be a better officer than Officer Facepunch, who is always prepared to kneecap teens, tweens, the mentally ill, and family pets who charge him with their expert training in knife fighting and hand-to-hand combat.[/QUOTE Please become a cop, so I can laugh at the news story about how you got stabbed by someone

[QUOTE=ZenZill;44901828]Could have just tazed him immediately, restrained him...rest is up to the shrinks. Guess less-lethal force wasn't thought out beforehand (and come on, given the situation)...how stupidly unprofessional.[/QUOTE] I don't think you understand how use of force works. It's not legal to just go and tazer someone who is not threatening you or another person with physical violence.

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901829]I'd be a better officer than Officer Facepunch, who is always prepared to kneecap teens, tweens, the mentally ill, and family pets who charge him with their expert training in knife fighting and hand-to-hand combat.[/QUOTE] hi unrelated question is your avatar a self portrait??

Police do not have non-lethal tools, there is a reason they no longer even use that term, they tend more towards less-(than-)lethal in most cases, because tasers can and have killed before, and pepper spray can seriously mess up a person's lungs if they inhale it at all, and a person with respiratory problems can easily die from it. Others, such as rubber bullets and the like should be obvious why they're not "non-lethal". As well, they are not that hard to resist the effects of, especially in an adrenaline fueled situation such as those where someone is actively attacking. They are also not very accurate. So its literally a crapshoot if your less-lethal measure will actually work or not. And when dealing with armed individuals, even a second can be enough for someone to be fatally wounded be it an officer or a bystander.

[QUOTE=ZenZill;44901828]Could have just tazed him immediately, restrained him...rest is up to the shrinks. Guess less-lethal force wasn't thought out beforehand (and come on, given the situation)...how stupidly unprofessional.[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;MjSjgsonUvE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjSjgsonUvE[/video] because that always works right? and ok this guys on PCP obviously that doesn't count, but tazors don't always hit you know additionally, you have to use the pistol because of people actually being able to ignore it it's the fastest and ironically safest way to eliminate a threat, it's also the one that involves the least possible injury to people other than the assailant. [QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;44901413]Give me all the dumb ratings you want[/quote] yeah great way to argue your point

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;44901413]Well, maybe officers shouldn't be in the business of enabling suicide attempts. I just don't get why "person threatening suicide" calls are responded to by regular officers with guns drawn and ready to use them. I don't see why it should be regular cops and not specifically-trained mental health professionals, and I don't see why the gun should ever leave the holster for anything less than a suspect armed with a gun. Give me all the dumb ratings you want, but plenty of other countries seem to address the same problems as we do without using lethal force anywhere near as often. Something is clearly wrong with police procedures in the US for dealing with this kind of thing.[/QUOTE] fucking [I]what[/I] the kid came after him with a knife, what a fucking idiot cop for defending his own life :downs: :downs: :downs: :downs:

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;44901842]I don't think you understand how use of force works. It's not legal to just go and tazer someone who is not threatening you or another person with physical violence.[/QUOTE] The article is vague in whether or not his weapon was concealed, but if they knew he had it out already (officer called for backup, so I'm guessing he did) then they should've been prepared for worst-case scenario, especially when the officer approached- balances that whole physical-violence-threat deal.

if someone is lunging at you with a knife, whether you are trained or not, you're going to pull your gun out, not your tazer there's no such thing as "professional" "Calm" and "Collected" when a dudes about to try and stab you just because your a teen doesn't change the fact that it happened, you're still as deadly as ever. If you are shot and die because you tried to kill someone regardless of circumstance, that's just the way it is, as shitty as that is.

[QUOTE=ZenZill;44901918]The article is vague in whether or not his weapon was concealed, but if they knew he had it out already (officer called for backup, so I'm guessing he did) then they should've been prepared for worst-case scenario, especially when the officer approached- balances that whole physical-violence-threat deal.[/QUOTE]They were. And when the kid lunged, that preparation came in to play.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;44901568]Right, because the suicidal 17-year-old is a trained killer. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] I know right? What next, an untrained mentally unstable 22 year old killing six people?

[QUOTE=Bazsil;44901970]I know right? What next, an untrained mentally unstable 22 year old killing six people?[/QUOTE] The totals up to 10 now :/

I think everyone's allowed to have one controversial opinion and I'm throwing my lot in with the people saying the cop should've used his spidey-senses to stop this kid with non-lethal weapons. Why? Well certainly not because I think it's reasonable for cops to respond to lethal force with non-lethal force. I just hate cops

[QUOTE=Comrade_Eko;44902036]I think everyone's allowed to have one controversial opinion and I'm throwing my lot in with the people saying the cop should've used his spidey-senses to stop this kid with non-lethal weapons. Why? Well certainly not because I think it's reasonable for cops to respond to lethal force with non-lethal force. I just hate cops[/QUOTE]Ahh, now we found the real Yawmwen alt.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;44902056]Ahh, now we found the real Yawmwen alt.[/QUOTE] It's not uncommon for people living in extreme poverty to hate cops. I'm actually aware that my prejudice stems from my [B]former[/B] socio-economic status and actively try to think positively about law enforcement. Those old wounds are still there though, and one day I'll get over it. But for today I'm going to suggest cops are armed with only spitballs whenever faced with danger.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;44901360]"They lunged and I had to shoot them" seems like an awfully common excuse for police shootings. It's the cop's word against a dead person, so who knows what actually happens, but sometimes it seems like the world has an awful lot of people willing to charge a gun-wielding cop armed with a knife or nothing at all. Does that police department not have a mental health responder for, I don't know, [I]exactly that scenario!?[/I] Imagine how the parents feel. They call the cops specifically because they want them to save their child's life, and instead a cop shows up and murders their child right in front of them. If a family member of mine was barricaded in a room and threatening to kill themselves, I don't think I would call the cops. I'll take my fucking chances handling the situation myself before I let some gun-toting cowboy with an itchy trigger finger come in my house.[/QUOTE] I express my feelings through text right now about how stupid this is of a post. But by all means, dont call the cops if you dont want them. Its your life, and possibly others, on the line.

[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;44901360]"They lunged and I had to shoot them" seems like an awfully common excuse for police shootings. It's the cop's word against a dead person, so who knows what actually happens, but sometimes it seems like the world has an awful lot of people willing to charge a gun-wielding cop armed with a knife or nothing at all. Does that police department not have a mental health responder for, I don't know, [I]exactly that scenario!?[/I] Imagine how the parents feel. They call the cops specifically because they want them to save their child's life, and instead a cop shows up and murders their child right in front of them. If a family member of mine was barricaded in a room and threatening to kill themselves, I don't think I would call the cops. I'll take my fucking chances handling the situation myself before I let some gun-toting cowboy with an itchy trigger finger come in my house.[/QUOTE] Stop, and don't even think about going there. We have someone like you in EVERY fucking thread regarding police using lethal force. We have someone who thinks they know the best solution to every problem permanently, with no prior experience in the conditions in which these officers are faced with all the time. You are not smarter than the entirety of the police force, if there was a better alternative you would think it would have been implemented it by now with reason. They have strict protocol for safety reasons. They have no room for maybes or exceptions. It doesn't work that way. Your "ideas" may sound dandy on paper, or in theory, but in practice they are largely invalid for a million and one different reasons. And the police force [B]can not[/B] take a risk on something that [B]possibly[/B] could happen. They need absolutes for situations. Hesitation causes holes in a plan leading to more complications. They're under enough stress as it is, they don't need a chance, they need a 100% success rate no matter what the conditions are. The police's job is to eliminate a situation by any means and to control things. And I'm not saying every cop is perfect or good. But their overall purpose isn't to mitigate the situation without lethal force. That's purely an option. Their job, no matter how cold it may seem, is to eradicate danger of a potential threat as efficiently and quickly as possible.

But why are there people like "him" in every thread regarding police using lethal force?

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;44901451]And what if they attack the specially-trained mental health professionals? Should they shoot him in the knee instead?[/QUOTE] Shoot the knife out of their hand, duh

[QUOTE=niel12_5D;44902156]But why are there people like "him" in every thread regarding police using lethal force?[/QUOTE] Because they feel as though they know the solutions to everything when that isn't the case. If it was that simple, and that blatantly obvious, the real question is why isn't everyone in the thread talking and thinking like him?

[QUOTE=rovar;44902146]Stop, and don't even think about going there. We have someone like you in EVERY fucking thread regarding police using lethal force. We have someone who thinks they know the best solution to every problem permanently, with no prior experience in the conditions in which these officers are faced with all the time. You are not smarter than the entirety of the police force, if there was a better alternative you would think it would have been implemented it by now with reason. They have strict protocol for safety reasons. They have no room for maybes or exceptions. It doesn't work that way. Your "ideas" may sound dandy on paper, or in theory, but in practice they are largely invalid for a million and one different reasons. And the police force [B]can not[/B] take a risk on something that [B]possibly[/B] could happen. They need absolutes for situations. Hesitation causes holes in a plan leading to more complications. They're under enough stress as it is, they don't need a chance, they need a 100% success rate no matter what the conditions are. The police's job is to eliminate a situation by any means and to control things. And I'm not saying every cop is perfect or good. But their overall purpose isn't to mitigate the situation without lethal force. That's purely an option. Their job, no matter how cold it may seem, is to eradicate danger of a potential threat as efficiently and quickly as possible.[/QUOTE] Have you considered how many officers are assholes? Where's the line drawn between harassing people and getting away with it, and just saying, "Fuck it I'll shoot this guy today." because they think they'll get away with it. I'm not a violent person, I think it's fair to say I'm a bit of a coward and even I've been in a situation where a cop has made me want to grab anything within reach and beat him to death. I know all cops aren't scumbags, but enough people share my opinion that I am inclined to think that a decent amount of them are. The point I'm trying to make is, this prejudice and hate doesn't come out of our ass, it comes from real world experience. So forgive us if, "Yup he lunged mate, had to put him down." sounds sketchy after hearing it countless times.

[QUOTE=rovar;44902170]Because they feel as though they know the solutions to everything when that isn't the case. If it was that simple, and that blatantly obvious, the real question is why isn't everyone in the thread talking and thinking like him?[/QUOTE] Or perhaps there's a greater problem and when people post stuff like that in a thread they're expressing frustration because they have no way to fix this greater problem.

[QUOTE=niel12_5D;44902156]But why are there people like "him" in every thread regarding police using lethal force?[/QUOTE] because they live in fantasy land where everybody knows exactly what others are going to do without being caught by surprise or in an escalating situation.

Ok BeardyDuck... I'm dumb I get it. Still think I have a point though. If you grow up poor cops treat you as something less than human, there's a distinct difference in the way they look at you and the way they look at the old rich guy. Whenever a cop faces me I know I'm in for a rough time, something as simple as walking home after work turns extremely stressful when you see those lights flash. Next thing you know you're getting patted down and handcuffed for the arbitrary 15 minutes while the cop decides if you're escaping jail in your fucking work uniform. I know for someone who grew up differently this might sound like a load of crap, and I'm not trying to convince you to hate cops like I do. I'm just trying to explain why opinions like mine exist, just for your personal reference.

[QUOTE=niel12_5D;44902202]Or perhaps there's a greater problem and when people post stuff like that in a thread they're expressing frustration because they have no way to fix this greater problem.[/QUOTE] They have no self awareness is what it is. They automatically assume they're correct because they justify it in their own heads and then run with the idea that they're right regardless if they are or aren't. It's not called knowing about a greater problem. It's called being dense and realizing your ingenious plan isn't so ingenious. They need to recognize feasibility, realistic situations, and most of all, they need to actually know what the fuck they are talking about. Are you a police officer who's been called several times into situations such as these? No? Good chance what you're saying is either incorrect or misinterpreted. Realize that.

[QUOTE=niel12_5D;44902156]But why are there people like "him" in every thread regarding police using lethal force?[/QUOTE] Because most of Facepunch consists of teenagers, and, as such, these teenagers are going through some sort of phase that they don't realize they're going through. Sooner or later, they'll realize that challenging every authority figure at every single opportunity every single time something falls remotely out of line with their naive way of thought is a really idiotic form of thinking. Hopefully. Until then, we'll still see these people, as vocal and rambunctious as ever, popping up in every police shooting thread, thinking that every single cop is obviously, undoubtedly, undeniably guilty of being a murderous, rampaging brute, because there exists only a slim possibility that, one day, they might be right.

[QUOTE=niel12_5D;44902202][QUOTE=rovar;44902170]Because they feel as though they know the solutions to everything when that isn't the case. If it was that simple, and that blatantly obvious, the real question is why isn't everyone in the thread talking and thinking like him?[/QUOTE] Or perhaps there's a greater problem and when people post stuff like that in a thread they're expressing frustration because they have no way to fix this greater problem.[/QUOTE] police officers have to make split second decisions that lawyers will debate for years. You can't be right 100% of the time. objectively analyzing versus subjectively analyzing. two different things that may lead to two completely different conclusions on thought

[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44901590]There is literally no act of police violence that people on this forum won't try to justify. Even when a SWAT team unloads a dozen rounds into a mentally ill homeless man standing out in an open field someone will come up with an excuse and ignore every single misstep that leads up to the shooting/fatal tasering of a person/small dog. Apparently all someone needs to say is "he lunged at me" and all circumstances and previous errors in judgement are made irrelevant.[/QUOTE] I don't know about you but while I do agree that there are some actions cops make that are totally unjustifiable, I don't think we have enough information at the moment to go kneejerking "police brutality!" A person can cover 20 or 30 feet much quicker than most people can think, and cover that distance quicker than it times to take for someone to draw a gun, train it, and fire it. We don't know what the fuck "went up to the teenager" means, that could be 2 feet or 25 feet. It's too fucking vague. You may think that there are people who are always willing to defend cops, which is fair enough. I also think, however, that there are quite a few people who are always willing to assume that no matter what call was made, the cop made the wrong call. And I see plenty of that on here too. [editline]25th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;44901360]If a family member of mine was barricaded in a room and threatening to kill themselves, I don't think I would call the cops. I'll take my fucking chances handling the situation myself before I let some gun-toting cowboy with an itchy trigger finger come in my house.[/QUOTE] Then you're a damn fool. If it ever reaches that point, that person is beyond reasoning. Your untrained ass isn't gonna save shit.

[QUOTE=Spherexd;44902268]Because most of Facepunch consists of teenagers, and, as such, these teenagers are going through some sort of phase that they don't realize they're going through. Sooner or later, they'll realize that challenging every authority figure at every single opportunity every single time something falls remotely out of line with their naive way of thought is a really idiotic form of thinking. Hopefully. Until then, we'll still see these people, as vocal and rambunctious as ever, popping up in every police shooting thread, thinking that every single cop is obviously, undoubtedly, undeniably guilty of being a murderous, rampaging brute, because there exists only a slim possibility that, one day, they might be right.[/QUOTE] What about adult anti-police activists?