Trying to teach in Detroit Public Schools amid decay: 'It's a travesty' - Polidicks

This is a good article. [url]http://www.nationalgeographic.com/taking-back-detroit/see-detroit.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Fish Muffin;49548224]hahahahaha is this for real talk to me when you stop in at Lafayette Coney Island or sit down for a bite to eat at Slow's. Maybe hit up Batch Brewing Company for a beer and head to Shinola or Third Man Records for some shopping, then we can have a discussion about the revitalization of Detroit until then STAY IN YOUR FUCKING LANE.[/QUOTE] Woah man, you can think he's wrong all you want, but simmer down. Have a civil discussion. Or ignore him. Its your choice. But typing in all caps and typing out 'hahahahahaha' to make his opinion sound more dumb than yours just makes you seem like a dick who can't actually structure an argument. [editline]17th January 2016[/editline] To add to the discussion, though: My school nearly busted down. They cut like half of the extra-curriculars and no one cared, because "I don't want to pay an extra 1$ in tax." Fired a bunch of teachers. The third levy we had while I was in High School only passed because sports were said to increase to 600$ playing fee for the next semester, and hot damn we can't have our football team (that went 0 wins three years in a row, no joke) having to drop players because they can't afford it.

Robocop was fucking prophetic, i swear.

[QUOTE=Fish Muffin;49545561]Yes Sobotnik, people are leaving Detroit. People that live in the suburbs and already dont pay much (if any) taxes. However, many young middle class college students are moving into downtown, as are new businesses. Downtown must be fixed before the suburbs can improve. I visit Detroit pretty regularly. It is in better shape now than it was 5 years ago. When was the last time you were in Detroit? When was the last time you were in Michigan? Never because you dont even fucking live in this country. Why do you always feel the need to argue with Americans about subjects you know nothing about in any personal way? you act like you know more about this city than people that literally live right next to it. Why are you literally the worst poster on this forum? Youve been permabanned twice now, why dont you just stay permabanned next time?[/QUOTE] Jesus Christ, man. Learn to respectfully disagree - I don't think was being awful at all. [editline]17th January 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Fish Muffin;49548224]hahahahaha is this for real talk to me when you stop in at Lafayette Coney Island or sit down for a bite to eat at Slow's. Maybe hit up Batch Brewing Company for a beer and head to Shinola or Third Man Records for some shopping, then we can have a discussion about the revitalization of Detroit until then STAY IN YOUR FUCKING LANE.[/QUOTE] Maybe Sobotnik is not the one that needs to be permabanned. Even if he's wrong (and I'm not making that judgement), at least he's not being extremely mean about it. I don't know what kind of a person would want to hang around the attitude you're having right now.

[QUOTE=Fish Muffin;49548224]hahahahaha is this for real talk to me when you stop in at Lafayette Coney Island or sit down for a bite to eat at Slow's. Maybe hit up Batch Brewing Company for a beer and head to Shinola or Third Man Records for some shopping, then we can have a discussion about the revitalization of Detroit until then STAY IN YOUR FUCKING LANE.[/QUOTE] If this is how people in Detroit act, then I'll never visit

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49550126]If this is how people in Detroit act, then I'll never visit[/QUOTE] It is for an unfortunately large amount of people. Source: I used to live around there. Twice. [editline]17th January 2016[/editline] Actually in general people "from Detroit" like that (when they really just live in like Royal Oak) tend to get worse the further out from Detroit you meet them. Same with most big cities I guess.

[QUOTE=Jund;49547729]At first i thought I was misunderstanding you but now it seems like you actually believe that the real problem is that people who pay nearly no taxes moving out of areas that receive next to nothing that taxes pay for like infrastructure maintenance, police protection, and utilities (that are already stretched thin enough as it is). And that the solution to this problem is more people = more taxes = more money, like simply having people around means that they're gonna pay taxes and spend their cash on non-existent local businesses. No shit people moving out is a bad sign, but it's a symptom, not the cause. Population shifts are due to desires to move in/out of places. How do you intend to "stabilize" Detroit's suburban population when there's nothing for them there, by putting a giant cage over it?[/QUOTE] It's still a major problem at this point because Detroit hasn't really been reorganized into a smaller city. As long as people continue to move out, and as long as the city attempts to administer the infrastructure for what could serve a million people, then infrastructure is only going to keep decaying and wealth is going to leave. I mean yes a lot of them might not already pay taxes, but a lot of them still stimulate some kind of economic activity in the area. Some of them still maintain (or at least attempt to) maintain their house and other buildings. Schools will still have students and shops will still need to cater to people in the area. The less activity, generally the worse - it impacts on everything and slowly pulls everything down. This has been a process ongoing in the city for 50 years. As it stands right now, I'd suggest massively reorganizing Detroit down into a small city, and establishing a number of new towns and villages around it and ceding large areas of the abandoned city to the countryside. There are already large parts of it that are returning to the wild. As for the schooling system mentioned in the OP, unless that is fixed, then Detroit has no future.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49550164]It's still a major problem at this point because Detroit hasn't really been reorganized into a smaller city. As long as people continue to move out, and as long as the city attempts to administer the infrastructure for what could serve a million people, then infrastructure is only going to keep decaying and wealth is going to leave. I mean yes a lot of them might not already pay taxes, but a lot of them still stimulate some kind of economic activity in the area. Some of them still maintain (or at least attempt to) maintain their house and other buildings. Schools will still have students and shops will still need to cater to people in the area. The less activity, generally the worse - it impacts on everything and slowly pulls everything down. This has been a process ongoing in the city for 50 years. As it stands right now, I'd suggest massively reorganizing Detroit down into a small city, and establishing a number of new towns and villages around it and ceding large areas of the abandoned city to the countryside. There are already large parts of it that are returning to the wild. As for the schooling system mentioned in the OP, unless that is fixed, then Detroit has no future.[/QUOTE] This isn't Napleon the thirds time and this is America. You can't just reorganize cities like that.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49553633]This isn't Napleon the thirds time and this is America. You can't just reorganize cities like that.[/QUOTE] Well why not? It seems logical that the land and infrastructure occupied by a city which has been built and designed for nearly 2 million people ought to be reorganized considering the fact that less than 680,000 now live there. There are obviously isolated clusters within the Greater Detroit Area which are more densely populated, which is why it makes perfect sense to make those areas their own self-administering towns rather than to put them under the care of a penniless city that can't (or won't) look after them. Unless that is done, Detroit is going to continue hemorrhaging people.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;49550164]It's still a major problem at this point because Detroit hasn't really been reorganized into a smaller city. As long as people continue to move out, and as long as the city attempts to administer the infrastructure for what could serve a million people, then infrastructure is only going to keep decaying and wealth is going to leave. I mean yes a lot of them might not already pay taxes, but a lot of them still stimulate some kind of economic activity in the area. Some of them still maintain (or at least attempt to) maintain their house and other buildings. Schools will still have students and shops will still need to cater to people in the area. The less activity, generally the worse - it impacts on everything and slowly pulls everything down. This has been a process ongoing in the city for 50 years. As it stands right now, I'd suggest massively reorganizing Detroit down into a small city, and establishing a number of new towns and villages around it and ceding large areas of the abandoned city to the countryside. There are already large parts of it that are returning to the wild. As for the schooling system mentioned in the OP, unless that is fixed, then Detroit has no future.[/QUOTE] Ah, but then you'd have to get the city government to acknowledge that the city has any problems. Like most US politicians, they'd rather be dragged naked over carpet tacks and dipped in rubbing alcohol than admit to any kind of responsibility.

Isn't Detroit basically the North's take on the South?

[QUOTE=Antlerp;49553988]Isn't Detroit basically the North's take on the South?[/QUOTE] What.

[QUOTE=Antlerp;49553988]Isn't Detroit basically the North's take on the South?[/QUOTE] What does that even mean

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;49553727]Ah, but then you'd have to get the city government to acknowledge that the city has any problems. Like most US politicians, they'd rather be dragged naked over carpet tacks and dipped in rubbing alcohol than admit to any kind of responsibility.[/QUOTE] I'm fairly certain that detroit knows they're messed up and admit it on the public record.

[B]UPDATE[/B] Teachers are beginning to protest by taking multiple sick days. More photos are being released too [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYnZIhXVAAAipLy.jpg[/t] [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYo_dDzWcAEd6r4.jpg[/t] [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYj2C6hUMAA_Zak.jpg[/t]

This is the reality of public education for poor urban people, a demographic dominated by young African Americans. Understaffed, underequipped, underfunded, underachieving. School is the first taste of social identity that most people get, the first mass socialization environment for the majority of US children. School is not just where you learn how to read and add numbers, it is where you learn how to function in a broader social ecology, alongside peers, rivals, and figures of authority. Is it any wonder that inner city youths experience such high dropout rates, and so often turn to gangs, drugs, prostitution, and even violence? This is their first taste of the their place in the world, and it is bleak, dirty, and pointless. Education and funding reforms, especially when it comes to poor urban areas, are ultimately one of the key foundational measures towards helping to improve upwards mobility, and reduce urban crime rates, and the US. They are right up there with universal healthcare on my list of must-have changes for a brighter tomorrow.

I go to what's considered incredibly good for a public school, and we've got leaking ceilings, broken water fountains, elevators that break on the regular, bathrooms without stall doors, and all sorts of shit. Now imagine [I]Detroit[/I].

[QUOTE=gk99;49562129]I go to what's considered incredibly good for a public school, and we've got leaking ceilings, broken water fountains, elevators that break on the regular, bathrooms without stall doors, and all sorts of shit. Now imagine [I]Detroit[/I].[/QUOTE] Hate to break it to you, but your school is not considered good from the standards I'm around. Also for anyone looking for a career change, Detroit is desperately looking for police officers. Starting pay is something like $14.50/hr. They'll take care of all of your education and training.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;49558655]This is the reality of public education for poor urban people, a demographic dominated by young African Americans. Understaffed, underequipped, underfunded, underachieving. School is the first taste of social identity that most people get, the first mass socialization environment for the majority of US children. School is not just where you learn how to read and add numbers, it is where you learn how to function in a broader social ecology, alongside peers, rivals, and figures of authority. Is it any wonder that inner city youths experience such high dropout rates, and so often turn to gangs, drugs, prostitution, and even violence? This is their first taste of the their place in the world, and it is bleak, dirty, and pointless. Education and funding reforms, especially when it comes to poor urban areas, are ultimately one of the key foundational measures towards helping to improve upwards mobility, and reduce urban crime rates, and the US. They are right up there with universal healthcare on my list of must-have changes for a brighter tomorrow.[/QUOTE] I really don't get the funding thing. According to this site (Mackinac Center for Public Policy: [URL]https://www.mackinac.org/depts/epi/fiscal.aspx[/URL]) the Detroit City School District gets $17,994 per student in funding. The national average is around $10,700, and the highest funded school district in the nation is $19,800 per student in New York ([URL]https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-98.html[/URL]) How are they so underfunded when they're getting a whole lot more than most of the nation? [editline]18th January 2016[/editline] Also note, based on those same sources, that they get about 25% of their total funding from the federal government compared to the average of 9.1% across the nation. So they're already getting way more federal funding than the vast majority of schools.

[QUOTE=sgman91;49562618]I really don't get the funding thing. According to this site (Mackinac Center for Public Policy: [URL]https://www.mackinac.org/depts/epi/fiscal.aspx[/URL]) the Detroit City School District gets $17,994 per student in funding. The national average is around $10,700, and the highest funded school district in the nation is $19,800 per student in New York ([URL]https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-98.html[/URL]) How are they so underfunded when they're getting a whole lot more than most of the nation? [editline]18th January 2016[/editline] Also note, based on those same sources, that they get about 25% of their total funding from the federal government compared to the average of 9.1% across the nation. So they're already getting way more federal funding than the vast majority of schools.[/QUOTE] Not all other high schools are falling apart though. If I had a salary and applied for FASFA, and someone else applies for FASFA without any source of income whatsoever, it would be fair to say they're being underfunded even though they're being paid as much as me. It's different standards.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49562871]Not all other high schools are falling apart though. If I had a salary and applied for FASFA, and someone else applies for FASFA without any source of income whatsoever, it would be fair to say they're being underfunded even though they're being paid as much as me. It's different standards.[/QUOTE] They're getting way more than the average, and only a couple thousand less than the highest in the nation. So even if we're assuming different standards it still doesn't make sense to me that it would be THAT bad. If what they're getting isn't enough, then what is? My issue is that people seem to make an unfalsifiable claim about education funding. They say that we need more funding because of how bad the results are. So we give more funding, but the results don't get better. They then argue that we must still need more funding. etc. etc. How much would be enough? [editline]18th January 2016[/editline] IMO, there are so many other endemic issues in these districts that absolutely need to be addressed before even thinking about more funding. For example, less than half of Detroit's total revenue goes into instruction, and that's including teacher benefits. Another example would be that their food services budget is basically unchanged from 2003 when they had 3 times the kids in the system (138,000 in 2003 compared to 44,600 in 2013). How is that possible? Note that it's around 12% of the total budget. So it's a pretty big deal.

I can tell you at least that the education system in Clark County (Vegas) is garbage because of how much money goes into administration. Perhaps there is a similar problem in Detroit.

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49562981]I can tell you at least that the education system in Clark County (Vegas) is garbage because of how much money goes into administration. Perhaps there is a similar problem in Detroit.[/QUOTE] I've been looking up a bit more about the Detroit school system, and, interestingly enough, the number of students in charter schools is projected to pass the number of students in the regular system. It might have even already happened. So I went and looked up the funding for those, and they, without fail are right about the national average (around $10,000/student). At this point they might as well just close down the Detroit system and let charters take over. They cost less and have better results so far.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49553633]This isn't Napleon the thirds time and this is America. You can't just reorganize cities like that.[/QUOTE] Well maybe it's time HRH can call that land hers again

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49557480][B]UPDATE[/B] [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYj2C6hUMAA_Zak.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] Wow, my school wasn't much better but we at least had the entire toilet seat.