Obama: 'You can't change Washington from the inside' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Governor Goblin;37753871]The problem here is that Romney doesn't just flip-flop, he completely changes entire policies and opinions.[/QUOTE] Yea, because he was a governor in a relatively liberal state and now has to pander to a racist, ultra-religious, xenophobic voting base.

I get the feeling that Obama is the only president who actually feels like a real person. Every other president(/ial candidate) just feels like a weird insensible mix of political goop that might not actually possess anything resembling an inner life.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;37753776]So when Obama says something, he has "grown and learned" or whatever feel-good shit you want to say. When Romney does it, it's a flip-flop. How about both of them are just lying and pandering to get votes. Obama has a better PR team but he is a fucking disgusting individual.[/QUOTE] How?

[QUOTE=yawmwen;37753988]Yea, because he was a governor in a relatively liberal state and now has to pander to a racist, ultra-religious, xenophobic voting base.[/QUOTE] Okay? So what's your point?

[QUOTE=dvc;37754012]How?[/QUOTE] Um, well he basically abandoned the poor, gave our money to stuff the pockets of thieves and criminals who crashed our financial system, took the demand for healthcare reform and flushed it in the toilet, launches drone strikes at innocent women and children in foreign countries, and continues to terrorize the Americans through a campaign of invasive surveillance. That's a small fucking start.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;37754058]Um, well he basically abandoned the poor, gave our money to stuff the pockets of thieves and criminals who crashed our financial system, took the demand for healthcare reform and flushed it in the toilet, launches drone strikes at innocent women and children in foreign countries, and continues to terrorize the Americans through a campaign of invasive surveillance. That's a small fucking start.[/QUOTE] Goddamn no need to be so hostile, I dont keep up with stuff in America and am just asking.

[QUOTE=dvc;37754069]Goddamn no need to be so hostile, I dont keep up with stuff in America and am just asking.[/QUOTE] Sorry. <3

[QUOTE=yawmwen;37754058]Um, well he basically abandoned the poor, gave our money to stuff the pockets of thieves and criminals who crashed our financial system, took the demand for healthcare reform and flushed it in the toilet, launches drone strikes at innocent women and children in foreign countries, and continues to terrorize the Americans through a campaign of invasive surveillance. That's a small fucking start.[/QUOTE] While giving the money thing seems wrong, not doing so really could have fucked us over even more. It may not seem "morally right", but from an economic standpoint, it made perfect sense. Besides, I'm pretty sure he said he wanted more reforms (the lack of which got us into this mess). The demand for healthcare reform in the toilet? What are you talking about? The PPACA originally had a public option which would've made the bill really shine, as it would've drove costs down further in private industries to be on a reasonable level with the public option, but that sure got removed since it's too "socialist". Drone strikes and the security thing I won't try to argue, since I'm not some crazy Obama zealot, and those are wrong. I just wanted to point out that I think the first two are wrong positions.

[QUOTE=Glaber;37744960]well, so much for "Change you can believe in" (What, so only Democrats have a sense of Humor?)[/QUOTE] would you rather have "change or gulag"? democratic process elected a republican congress.

[QUOTE=Zally13;37754165]While giving the money thing seems wrong, not doing so really could have fucked us over even more. It may not seem "morally right", but from an economic standpoint, it made perfect sense. Besides, I'm pretty sure he said he wanted more reforms (the lack of which got us into this mess).[/quote] I don't think paying for executive bonuses is the best way of fixing the economy. It cements the idea that you can completely fuck over the poor as long as you have bought the "too big to fail" insurance policy. I mean, how many of these fuckwads were prosecuted for their participation in the financial collapse? How many of these pieces of shit are in jail for fucking everyone over? [quote]The demand for healthcare reform in the toilet? What are you talking about? The PPACA originally had a public option which would've made the bill really shine, as it would've drove costs down further in private industries to be on a reasonable level with the public option, but that sure got removed since it's too "socialist".[/quote] It had the public support, and the support in congress. It wasn't scrapped for being "too socialist", it was scrapped for not catering to the health insurance industry.

the president doesn't write all the laws

[QUOTE=yawmwen;37754227]It had the public support, and the support in congress. It wasn't scrapped for being "too socialist", it was scrapped for not catering to the health insurance industry.[/QUOTE] So what are you trying to say, that Obama is personally responsible for the public option being scrapped despite majority support for it in Congress and among the public? I somehow doubt it was taken out on his order.

[QUOTE=Megafan;37754875]So what are you trying to say, that Obama is personally responsible for the public option being scrapped despite majority support for it in Congress and among the public? I somehow doubt it was taken out on his order.[/QUOTE] He was at least partially responsible. He gave no real resistance and champions the bill as legitimate reform.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;37755092]He was at least partially responsible. He gave no real resistance and champions the bill as legitimate reform.[/QUOTE] Somehow I would imagine that when you have a hard time getting anything done that you would want to celebrate the small things.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;37754058]Um, well he basically abandoned the poor, gave our money to stuff the pockets of thieves and criminals who crashed our financial system, took the demand for healthcare reform and flushed it in the toilet, launches drone strikes at innocent women and children in foreign countries, and continues to terrorize the Americans through a campaign of invasive surveillance. That's a small fucking start.[/QUOTE] Because those thieves run our economy. They are able to do so because the Republicans value "job creators" (Read: Greedy assholes) above the people who actually need the jobs created. If we taxed the wealthy like we should and had greater control over the economy, this shit wouldn't happen. At the end of the day the only way to keep the ship from sinking was to pay out to the dickwads. [editline]21st September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;37755092]He was at least partially responsible. He gave no real resistance and champions the bill as legitimate reform.[/QUOTE] They fought tooth and nail over the reform for months.

[QUOTE=GunFox;37755322]Because those thieves run our economy. They are able to do so because [B]the Republicans value "job creators" (Read: Greedy assholes) above the people who actually need the jobs created. [/B] If we taxed the wealthy like we should and had greater control over the economy, this shit wouldn't happen. At the end of the day the only way to keep the ship from sinking was to pay out to the dickwads. [editline]21st September 2012[/editline] They fought tooth and nail over the reform for months.[/QUOTE] Reagan was one of the worst presidents. He set the tone for trickle down economics that has helped lead into this economic decline. Fuck you Reagan.

[QUOTE=GunFox;37745200]Because Bush and his Republican pals got us embroiled in two separate conflicts that have cost tens of thousands of lives. Tens of thousands of people are dead in two separate nations, neither of which ultimately housed the guy we wanted nor were actual WMD's ever found. Big surprise. Bush took us from a spending SURPLUS to the worst deficit we had ever seen. Adults are smart enough to not hand the reigns back over to the morons who got thousands of people killed and crushed the world's strongest economy all while allowing the rise of the TSA, an organization dedicated to shitting all over the bill of rights. Obama has slowly been working us out of this shithole and what? You want to hand control back over to the morons who got us into it in the first place?[/QUOTE] yeah, remember when obama stopped borrowing and repealed the patriot act and fixed the economy oh

[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;37757188]yeah, remember when obama stopped borrowing and repealed the patriot act and fixed the economy oh[/QUOTE] You fix failing economies by boosting spending and artificially creating jobs until you get the ball rolling again. This is basic economics. I didn't bring up the patriot act. It would be extraordinarily stupid to ever repeal the patriot act. The overwhelming majority of the bill is completely within the right of government and pertains to how emergency services interact with one another and establishes a baseline command structure. It shares much in common with how NATO forces can operate as a single unit, rather than simply as allied nations with shared goals. There are still issues with the act, no doubt, but it has slowly grown more lax even during the Bush years. We need one final push to dump the last bits which are really objectionable, but frankly we have more important issues on the table. But if you really want to play that card: [url]http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll398.xml[/url] Virtually the only folks who originally had the balls to say "nay" to the bill, even in the wake of the clusterfuck that was 9/11, were the democrats. The Republicans almost unanimously supported it. I find it hard to believe that they would somehow be anything even [I]approaching[/I] better in that regard. Which is saying something because it wasn't like the Dems weren't mostly on board either.

[QUOTE=GunFox;37757277]You fix failing economies by boosting spending and artificially creating jobs until you get the ball rolling again. This is basic economics. I didn't bring up the patriot act. It would be extraordinarily stupid to ever repeal the patriot act. The overwhelming majority of the bill is completely within the right of government and pertains to how emergency services interact with one another and establishes a baseline command structure. It shares much in common with how NATO forces can operate as a single unit, rather than simply as allied nations with shared goals. There are still issues with the act, no doubt, but it has slowly grown more lax even during the Bush years. We need one final push to dump the last bits which are really objectionable, but frankly we have more important issues on the table. But if you really want to play that card: [url]http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2001/roll398.xml[/url] Virtually the only folks who originally had the balls to say "nay" to the bill, even in the wake of the clusterfuck that was 9/11, were the democrats. The Republicans almost unanimously supported it. I find it hard to believe that they would somehow be anything even [I]approaching[/I] better in that regard. Which is saying something because it wasn't like the Dems weren't mostly on board either.[/QUOTE] funnily enough the economy doesn't seem to be obama's selling point for his campaign - but it is romney's nor do i really care who voted against the patriot act THEN. my point is that you're criticising bush for all these security measures when obama has done nothing different, yet painting the republicans and democrats as polar opposites on the matter. it's at moments like these that i can understand yawmwen's "they're all bastards" routine - i have nothing against obama, but i find it false to act like he's magically turned around the bush jr years when he hasn't.

[QUOTE=GunFox;37744740]How dare a democratically elected official want the help of the people for anything! Seriously, Romney is grasping at straws here.[/QUOTE] Of course he is. The Romney campaign is almost exactly tied with Obama, they're desperate to gain the advantage, as is the Obama campaign.

[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;37757303]funnily enough the economy doesn't seem to be obama's selling point for his campaign - but it is romney's nor do i really care who voted against the patriot act THEN. my point is that you're criticising bush for all these security measures when obama has done nothing different, yet painting the republicans and democrats as polar opposites on the matter. it's at moments like these that i can understand yawmwen's "they're all bastards" routine - i have nothing against obama, but i find it false to act like he's magically turned around the bush jr years when he hasn't.[/QUOTE] Nobody is saying he has. Progress has been made, but overall I don't find him to be the greatest president ever. He is, however, a significant improvement over any member of the Republican party. Romney in particular who, at this point, is pretty clearly not a nice fellow or remotely capable of doing anything other than utterly destroying the United States. Furthermore we have Obama sitting under the thumb of a Republican controlled congress. They are willing to shit all over anything and everything in order to get him to fail. It has even been ADMITTED by leading members of the party that their goal was to make him fail. What happened when the dems controlled congress? They tried to work with the Republicans. The Republicans broke records for fillibustering. And where have you gotten the idea that the economy isn't part of Obama's campaign. It was the majority of his presidency and subsequent campaign. All of the math done on the little information provided by Romney regarding his economic plans has shown that things will get worse for the vast majority of the United States all so the wealthy can get even more tax cuts. Meanwhile Romney already pays less in taxes percentage wise than most Americans do. That is just the stuff we KNOW too, the prick still won't release the rest of his tax forms. He is a fucking lying deceitful asshole.