BREAKING NEWS: NATIONWIDE SHOOTINGS Happening Simultaneously 15+ Dead 13+ Wounded...US GOVERNMENT IN - Polidicks

was so excited for a badage thread :(

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39336868]hey maybe its both! nah that couldn't be it, it's just mental health, let's just completely ignore the weapon people are USING to kill eachother [editline]24th January 2013[/editline] cool but thats a stupid comic that argues against a nonexistent point of all out gun bans that nobody here is advocating for[/QUOTE] people that get a gun illegally anyways still have illegal means to get a gun what was that? oh, sorry. just stating facts is all. I don't need any proof either because, no matter what people are going to get guns. I'm 50/50 with gun control. Ultimately, guns are good, but only in states that can handle them.

[QUOTE=faze;39336662]No. 99% of gun crimes are done with stolen guns.[/QUOTE] no they arent secondly, why are so many firearms stolen if having a gun means you can protect your property?

[QUOTE=J!NX;39336984]people that get a gun illegally anyways still have illegal means to get a gun[/QUOTE] except many people commit crimes with legally obtained weapons, restricting the flow of weapons into the civilian market inevitably makes it more difficult for criminals to get those weapons, crimes of passion are often deterred by simple waiting periods, and you can make private sale a federal offense and give the ATF some power so they can go around making sure private sales are not only extremely risky but extremely difficult to locate and coordinate. this notion that everyone who commits a crime with a gun is somehow a criminal mastermind with the resources to get any weapon he chooses whenever he wants is ridiculous, the only thing MORE ridiculous is the idea that because we can't 100% eliminate gun crime in the country, we shouldn't even bother trying by enacting common sense gun control that doesn't prevent law abiding citizens from obtaining their weapons. [editline]24th January 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;39336984]what was that? oh, sorry. just stating facts is all. I don't need any proof either because, no matter what people are going to get guns. I'm 50/50 with gun control. Ultimately, guns are good, but only in states that can handle them.[/QUOTE] is this a fuckin joke

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39336998]no they arent secondly, why are so many firearms stolen if having a gun means you can protect your property?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure you have to register and wait a certain amount of time before you can buy one. And a lot of shooters have never owned one before and don't want to wait through that process. Also I think they look at your criminal record so some people would not be able to pass the registration.

Had me going for a few secs 2/10

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;39337075]I'm pretty sure you have to register and wait a certain amount of time before you can buy one. And a lot of shooters have never owned one before and don't want to wait through that process. Also I think they look at your criminal record so some people would not be able to pass the registration.[/QUOTE] yes in the states that choose to enforce these laws background checks and psych evaluations should be federal laws and private sale should have to be conducted through a licensed dealer (with the same regulations applied).

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;39337075]I'm pretty sure you have to register and wait a certain amount of time before you can buy one. And a lot of shooters have never owned one before and don't want to wait through that process. Also I think they look at your criminal record so some people would not be able to pass the registration.[/QUOTE] so how come criminals can get their hands on guns so easily then? where are all these guns coming from?

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39337168]so how come criminals can get their hands on guns so easily then? where are all these guns coming from?[/QUOTE] Either friends getting them the guns, or the black market.

Troll/parody thread turns into a gun debate in 2 pages flat. Never change, Facepunch.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;39337201]Either friends getting them the guns, or the black market.[/QUOTE] that plus, the black market grow by a lot of you just made guns illegal. Since they have an actual MARKET that people will want to run towards. In the long run, very horrible. ...on the other hand with an effective working way of destroying these markets... assuming they can't get around that, you have huge benefits and nothing but them. But if you fail completely, you might actually be better off going in the complete other direction.

Sounds like the Badage Boys must be back in town...

[QUOTE=J!NX;39337226]that plus, the black market grow by a lot of you just made guns illegal. Since they have an actual MARKET that people will want to run towards. In the long run, very horrible. ...on the other hand with an effective working way of destroying these markets... assuming they can't get around that, you have huge benefits and nothing but them. But if you fail completely, you might actually be better off going in the complete other direction.[/QUOTE] why not just reduce supply

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;39337201]Either friends getting them the guns, or the black market.[/QUOTE] cool lets give the ATF some funding and staff and crack down on that

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;39337272]why not just reduce supply[/QUOTE] fuck if I know guns are a complex issue. You can't just ban them, you can't just totally legalize them. So I suppose reduced supply would be effective. It really all depends on the state IMHO. You have to talk individual states.

[QUOTE=J!NX;39337286]fuck if I know guns are a complex issue. You can't just ban them, you can't just totally legalize them. So I suppose reduced supply would be effective. It really all depends on the state IMHO.[/QUOTE] NOBODY IS ASKING WE BAN GUNS people have stated explicitly in all of these threads we don't want to "ban guns" stop saying this christ almighty "it all depends on the state" is bad, make gun laws federal or the state-level laws will be quickly invalidated by people driving to the neighboring state to do their business

This is pretty much average American day in the shooting department. We have 300 million people and more than that many guns, people get shot every day.

[QUOTE=Paramud;39336888]I like the idea that seeing a man shot to death somehow caused a police officer to spontaneously combust. At least that other officer is nice enough to offer him a hug in his time of need.[/QUOTE] Self-Immolation because of grief.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;39337276]cool lets give the ATF some funding and staff and crack down on that[/QUOTE] Where there's a market, there's a salesman.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;39337337]Where there's a market, there's a salesman.[/QUOTE] You're doing your own argument a disservice by spouting vague platitudes (that don't really mean anything) and arguing against a blanket gun ban (that almost no one has seriously suggested).

Whatever happened to The Badage Boys? I miss them.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;39337337]Where there's a market, there's a salesman.[/QUOTE] while your little quip is really adorable it is completely meaningless in a technical discussion full of details to put it in a way you could understand: where there's a salesman, the ATF arrests him and gives him a few years in prison along for a felony offense of illegal arms trafficking

So what are you proposing, something similar to the war on drugs, but for illegal firearms trade?

why is this thread still open hasn't it been established that this is a troll thread?

[QUOTE=Megafan;39337369]You're doing your own argument a disservice by spouting vague platitudes (that don't really mean anything) and arguing against a blanket gun ban (that almost no one has seriously suggested).[/QUOTE] I wasn't suggesting a full ban, I said the picture summed up my views on it. Don't look at the types of weapons being held in the image. If you restrict firearms by any degree, you're doing nothing but stopping the innocent populous from acquiring them. You're not stopping criminals, hell you're expanding the amount of technical criminals, because now there are people who are diehard firearms collectors who own guns that were previously legal, but now illegal due to new laws.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;39337430]I wasn't suggesting a full ban, I said the picture summed up my views on it. Don't look at the types of weapons being held in the image. If you restrict firearms by any degree, you're doing nothing but stopping the innocent populous from acquiring them. You're not stopping criminals, hell you're expanding the amount of technical criminals, because now there are people who are diehard firearms collectors who own guns that were previously legal, but now illegal due to new laws.[/QUOTE] Do you actually have anything to back up the assertion that legal restrictions on gun ownership of any kind does [I]nothing[/I] to limit their availability to criminals?

No, I don't. But if you were a criminal who couldn't get a gun legally due to whatever reason (shitty criminal record or whatnot) and you planned on committing a gun related crime, you'd probably either get someone else who CAN buy the gun buy it for you, or acquire it in a substantially shadier venue.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;39337482]No, I don't. But if you were a criminal who couldn't get a gun legally due to whatever reason (shitty criminal record or whatnot) and you planned on committing a gun related crime, you'd probably either get someone else who CAN buy the gun buy it for you, or acquire it in a substantially shadier venue.[/QUOTE] Sounds like awfully vague and unstable reasoning for something so absolute.

If I said that it'd do NOTHING to stem crime, I'm sorry (yeah shit it sounds like backpedaling but saying it'd stem nothing is stupid). I think the mental healthcare argument that popped up earlier was on the right track. Why should we control guns when we could just help the mentally unstable better?

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;39337503]If I said that it'd do NOTHING to stem crime, I'm sorry (yeah shit it sounds like backpedaling but saying it'd stem nothing is stupid). I think the mental healthcare argument that popped up earlier was on the right track. Why should we control guns when we could just help the mentally unstable better?[/QUOTE] Because there's more factors to it than that. It's hardly a matter of just banning firearms or giving $5 million to mental health programs. Arguably, part of the reason that it would be easy for criminals to have access to these guns even if you banned them is due, at least in part, to the availability of firearms in the already legal market. Not only that, but as others have pointed out in the past, the ATF is lacking a dedicated director, proper staff, and the ability to enforce existing firearm regulations.