[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22447743]The rig was hired from an American company who specialized in deep sea drilling, it wasn't BP's rig, it was BP's well.
The only reason everyones blaming BP is because Obama put the blame on them to cover his own ass after he encouraged deep sea drilling and didn't enforce the necessary safety protocols.[/QUOTE]
yes
obama personally looked at every single oil rig and consciously decided not to enforce the rules
it couldnt have been that the regulators were bribed what are you crazy
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22447743]The rig was hired from an American company who specialized in deep sea drilling, it wasn't BP's rig, it was BP's well.
The only reason everyones blaming BP is because Obama put the blame on them to cover his own ass after he encouraged deep sea drilling and didn't enforce the necessary safety protocols.[/QUOTE]
I think it's more to do with the fact that BP at the time owned the rig and was profiting from the oil it was producing and so most people felt that they should be the ones to fix it.
[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;22448438]This.
However, Transocean isn't an american company. And transocean has a LENGTHY trouble record with poorly maintaining their rigs.
Ixtoc was Transoceans.
Deepwater Horizon, Transocean. Both failed at the same thing: Faulty BOP.
Yet the retards keep bashing BP for cleaning up the mess they didn't create.[/QUOTE]
Transocean rents out rigs to companies. Say, an Oil exploration company says there's oil here, BP wants a piece, so they call up Transocean and rent out a drilling rig (in this case Deepwater Horizon). They then move that rig out to where BP says, and start drilling. Both BP, and Transocean employees are on the rig.
So these guys go on drilling their hole. Then once they are nearing the end, Halliburton comes in and cements some stuff in place. Which may have failed and caused the blowout.
Someone rents a car, and crashes it, you don't blame Enterprise Rent-a-car. Though in this situation I think they are all three responsible, But BP being the current party renting out the rig, they are responsible for making sure everything is done right, which it obviously wasn't, and they fully agreed to taking the blame.
[editline]04:34PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=bravehat;22448688]I think it's more to do with the fact that BP at the time owned the rig and was profiting from the oil it was producing and so most people felt that they should be the ones to fix it.[/QUOTE]
Deepwater Horizon was a drilling rig, and wasn't producing any oil at the time. Infact, they were finishing up the well by putting in the concrete walls when the explosion happened. Even after they are done drilling the thing, Deepwater Horizon would cap the well and move on to another company to drill more holes. All it does is drill.
So in the end, it's BP who will have to pay the big price.
[QUOTE=bravehat;22448688]I think it's more to do with the fact that BP at the time owned the rig and was profiting from the oil it was producing and so most people felt that they should be the ones to fix it.[/QUOTE]
They don't control the rig, the company that owns said rig says what happens, BP simply hired it, not their fault.
[editline]10:36PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Johnnsen;22448555]If it is not BP responsible for maintaining these things, who is, and who is legally responsible for this?[/QUOTE]
Transocean.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22449008]They don't control the rig, the company that owns said rig says what happens, BP simply hired it, not their fault.
[editline]10:36PM[/editline]
Transocean.[/QUOTE]
They're still responsible for making sure their shit don't go wrong. In my opinion they're all three responsible, but BP already accepted blame for it so why does it matter?
[QUOTE=OvB;22449091]They're still responsible for making sure their shit don't go wrong. In my opinion they're all three responsible, but BP already accepted blame for it so why does it matter?[/QUOTE]
It's Transoceans rig, why should BP be responsible for this.
[QUOTE=Van-man;22444595]Use the oil for a Tar & Feathers treatment, for whoever is responsible for the design & manufacturing of that shitty oil-rig.[/QUOTE]
My friends hall mate at uni's dad made the cap that broke in the first place :P
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22449129]It's Transoceans rig, why should BP be resposible for this.[/QUOTE]
Because they hired them. When you hire someone to do a job for you, you are just as responsible for their fuckup as they are. It's your job to make sure they don't fuck up.
And the rig was not the problem. Deepwater Horizon has been poking holes in the ground since 2000. BP leased the rig from them, and therefore are responsible for it. Go rent a car and crash it then blame the company and see how far that gets you.
Plus, Halliburton was the one that did the cement job that suposidly failed, the rig was fine, why not blame Halliburton for a shitty cement job?
They're ALL responsible. BP, being the one that leased the rig and hired Halliburton took responsibility.
[editline]04:49PM[/editline]
Or whynot blame the company that made the Blowout Preventer that failed. Had the BOP been activated, the whole thing would have been avoided despite a burnt up rig.
[QUOTE=OvB;22449236]Because they hired them. When you hire someone to do a job for you, you are just as responsible for their fuckup as they are. It's your job to make sure they don't fuck up.
And the rig was not the problem. Deepwater Horizon has been poking holes in the ground since 2000. BP leased the rig from them, and therefore are responsible for it. Go rent a car and crash it then blame the company and see how far that gets you.
Plus, Halliburton was the one that did the cement job that suposidly failed, the rig was fine, why not blame Halliburton for a shitty cement job?
They're ALL responsible. BP, being the one that leased the rig and hired Halliburton took responsibility.
[editline]04:49PM[/editline]
Or whynot blame the company that made the Blowout Preventer that failed. Had the BOP been activated, the whole thing would have been avoided despite a burnt up rig.[/QUOTE]
Well that depends, if you're driving a hired car, then the brakes stop working and you crash into the back of someone, surely it's the hiring companies fault for not checking the car before allowing it to be rented out?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22449008]They don't control the rig, the company that owns said rig says what happens, [b]BP simply hired it, not their fault.[/b]
[editline]10:36PM[/editline]
Transocean.[/QUOTE]
They were still profiting from it, and in my eyes that means they take the lions share of responsibility when something goes wrong.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22449354]Well that depends, if you're driving a hired car, then the brakes stop working and you crash into the back of someone, surely it's the hiring companies fault for not checking the car before allowing it to be rented out?[/QUOTE]
But the rig was fine. It was just the shitty cement job + the shitty BOP that caused the disaster. I'm not sure if Transocean owned the BOP, they may have, but maybe not.
Still, they should all three be held accountable.
[QUOTE=bravehat;22449365]They were still profiting from it, and in my eyes that means they take the lions share of responsibility when something goes wrong.[/QUOTE]
BP payed transocean to drill the oil for them, then took the oil. BP where simply taking the oil that had been drilled, transocean did the mining.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22447743]The rig was hired from an American company who specialized in deep sea drilling, it wasn't BP's rig, it was BP's well.
The only reason everyones blaming BP is because Obama put the blame on them to cover his own ass after he encouraged deep sea drilling and didn't enforce the necessary safety protocols.[/QUOTE]
Ughhhhhhhhhhh
[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25674571/]Wrong[/url] [url=http://observers.france24.com/en/content/20100513-bp-oil-spill-bush-administration-allowed-safety-precautions-circumvented-gulf-mexico]President[/url]
[QUOTE=OvB;22449386]But the rig was fine. It was just the shitty cement job + the shitty BOP that caused the disaster. I'm not sure if Transocean owned the BOP, they may have, but maybe not.
Still, they should all three be held accountable.[/QUOTE]
But it seems that BP is being solely blamed for this, BP are the ones getting all the negative attention while Transocean sit in the background, like due to the fact that it's easier for the US government to blame the foreign comapany that's outside their jurisdiction, than blame the US compant who wheere under their jurisdiction and admit that their policies had failed.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22449406]BP payed transocean to drill the oil for them, then took the oil. BP where simply taking the oil that had been drilled, transocean did the mining.[/QUOTE]
No one took any oil. Deepwater Horizon was a [I]drilling rig[/I]. They litterally pump shit down the well not up the well. the blowout was an upwelling of pressure coming up the pipe when they were finishing up the well walls.
[QUOTE=Athena;22449435]Ughhhhhhhhhhh
[URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25674571/"]Wrong[/URL] [URL="http://observers.france24.com/en/content/20100513-bp-oil-spill-bush-administration-allowed-safety-precautions-circumvented-gulf-mexico"]President[/URL][/QUOTE]
Then why was nothing done to fix this after Bush left office?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22449406]BP payed transocean to drill the oil for them, then took the oil. BP where simply taking the oil that had been drilled, transocean did the mining.[/QUOTE]
You seem to have missed the main point of my post. BP were profiting from the use of that rig, so in my opinion, I feel that they should take responsibility. Any way they said they will take the blame so this so we are arguing a moot point.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22449463]But it seems that BP is being solely blamed for this, BP are the ones getting all the negative attention while Transocean sit in the background, like due to the fact that it's easier for the US government to blame the foreign comapany that's outside their jurisdiction, than blame the US compant who wheere under their jurisdiction and admit that their policies had failed.[/QUOTE]
Yes, Transocean and Halliburton aren't getting their fair share of negative attention I agree. BP is a global company, I'm sure they are well within the reach of American jurisdiction.
[QUOTE=OvB;22449472]No one took any oil. Deepwater Horizon was a [I]drilling rig[/I]. They litterally pump shit down the well not up the well. the blowout was an upwelling of pressure coming up the pipe when they were finishing up the well walls.[/QUOTE]
Makes them slightly more accountable for these problems, but this is still not truely Bp's problem, the drilling company should be paying for most of this mess.
[QUOTE=Johnnsen;22448555]If it is not BP responsible for maintaining these things, who is, and who is legally responsible for this?[/QUOTE]
Transocean
[QUOTE=OvB;22448909]Transocean rents out rigs to companies. Say, an Oil exploration company says there's oil here, BP wants a piece, so they call up Transocean and rent out a drilling rig (in this case Deepwater Horizon). They then move that rig out to where BP says, and start drilling. Both BP, and Transocean employees are on the rig.
So these guys go on drilling their hole. Then once they are nearing the end, Halliburton comes in and cements some stuff in place. Which may have failed and caused the blowout.
Someone rents a car, and crashes it, you don't blame Enterprise Rent-a-car. Though in this situation I think they are all three responsible, But BP being the current party renting out the rig, they are responsible for making sure everything is done right, which it obviously wasn't, and they fully agreed to taking the blame.[/quote]
Nice point, and good analogy, however that analogy has an obvious flaw. Going on what your scenario; they are at fault if they don't replace known faulty equipment. So if you rent a car from Enterprise and they knew and didn't replace a tie rod end, and you got into an accident killing a few people. Do you blame the driver, or the person who lent that vehicle?
Transocean KNEW about the BOP being faulty, and proceeded to go ahead and not replace it.
But regardless who is really at fault, the persons who own the rig, or own the well, maybe this will push our society to a better resource. I think more people opened their eyes to the dangers of oil. And without (ultra)deep water drilling, we can face a bigger shortage in oil.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22449463]But it seems that BP is being solely blamed for this, BP are the ones getting all the negative attention while Transocean sit in the background, like due to the fact that it's easier for the US government to blame the foreign comapany that's outside their jurisdiction, than blame the US compant who wheere under their jurisdiction and admit that their policies had failed.[/QUOTE]
[b]Because in US law the client is liable for the actions of its contractor.[/b] [url=http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/26/oil.spill.investigation/index.html]This is why they are being blamed solely[/url]. This isn't some foreign relations gambit.
[quote]Well why didn't Barack do anything about it[/quote]
He put a [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64Q2C020100527]moratorium on offshore drilling[/url]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22449526]Makes them slightly more accountable for these problems, but this is still not truely Bp's problem, the drilling company should be paying for most of this mess.[/QUOTE]
Well, society always finds it easier to blame the big, well known company, rather than the small, unknown ones. BP knows this so they just said they will take responsibility for the event. Their global image has taken a massive hit because of it. Halliburton and Transocean should be happy. No one really knew Halliburton was involved until a few days afterwords, but by then everyone was already pissed at BP. The sad thing is the majority of the people probably have no idea what's really going on, or how drilling rigs even work, or even know the difference between a drilling rig and a pumping rig. And now everyone is going to think that offshore drilling is unsafe.
To be honest I'm mostly annoyed at the idiots who just take everything the media says word for word and blame BP for something they really didn't have much control over. Transocean and Haliburton should pay in full all reparations for this.
[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;22449576]Transocean
Nice point, and good analogy, however that analogy has an obvious flaw. Going on what your scenario; they are at fault if they don't replace known faulty equipment. So if you rent a car from Enterprise and they knew and didn't replace a tie rod end, and you got into an accident killing a few people. Do you blame the driver, or the person who lent that vehicle?
Transocean KNEW about the BOP being faulty, and proceeded to go ahead and not replace it.
But regardless who is really at fault, the persons who own the rig, or own the well, maybe this will push our society to a better resource. I think more people opened their eyes to the dangers of oil. And without (ultra)deep water drilling, we can face a bigger shortage in oil.[/QUOTE]
That's probably true, think I read something about it. But I'm sure both parties knew about the faulty equipment and both took a gamble by not halting the operation. Replacing a BOP is a very timely and expensive thing to do, you would have to pull up the well, cap the well head, remove the 5000+ feet of pipe piece by piece, ship out a new BOP to the rig, hook it up, re drill the 5000+ feet of pipe.... You're basically starting over. When your at the end of a drilling operation that would be insanely expensive. They probably thought they would get lucky and be able to finish the well with the bad BOP. They took a gamble and lost.
[editline]05:16PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22449764]To be honest I'm mostly annoyed at the idiots who just take everything the media says word for word and blame BP for something they really didn't have much control over. Transocean and Haliburton should pay in full all reparations for this.[/QUOTE]
BP is just an easy company to blame. Go look at their Wiki page and see how long the "Incidents" and "Controversy" links are in the table of contents.
I am kind of hoping this will have the same effect as Chernobyl did in the way of safety protocol. In the way of events Chernobyl and this are very similar.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22450186]I am kind of hoping this will have the same effect as Chernobyl did in the way of safety protocol. In the way of events Chernobyl and this are very similar.[/QUOTE]
Not really. Chernobyl was an experimental, shitty nuclear reactor. Deepwater Horizon was a deep sea drill that had neglecting operators. The offshore industry is safe. The Gulf of Mexico has only had two offshore drilling related incidents in its history. There are still over 3000 rigs that run properly and safely each hour of each day in the Gulf.
Yes but Cherobyl failed because of faulty equipment, which was not replaced or fixed due to the comapany not wanting to spend money on the problem. Plus deep sea rigs are a little less common.
[QUOTE=Richard Simmons;22446480]Because the EXACT same thing happened 30 years ago, and you guys think this is the FIRST time it happened.[/QUOTE]
Exxon Valdez was 30 years ago now?
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q37xJtuQ24w[/media]
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;22446553]It's not BP's fault...[/QUOTE]
hahaha
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.