Bill Gates: New Windows 8 system is 'very exciting' - Polidicks

[QUOTE=assassin_Raptor;37860267]I like how they said we tried to get the old start menu back, and in that screen when they were saying that, it said disable metro ui...[/QUOTE] The programs used to restore the start menu stopped working for a while. Bear in mind that the video wasn't produced yesterday.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;37859756]Some of the starting applications come with embedded advertisements last I checked. Not going to reinstall them to check. [editline]30th September 2012[/editline] Alt+tab Windows + tab.[/QUOTE] I haven't seen any app that comes with Windows having advertisements. Actually I haven't seen any advertisements in Windows 8, and I've been running it since the DP - that's a year ago in maybe two weeks.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37860549]I haven't seen any app that comes with Windows having advertisements. Actually I haven't seen any advertisements in Windows 8, and I've been running it since the DP - that's a year ago in maybe two weeks.[/QUOTE] I've seen screenshots where there's ads (but they're normally hidden at the edge of a screen not that that makes it any less ridiculous, it's just less noticeable) but I've never actual encountered one myself.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37860549]I haven't seen any app that comes with Windows having advertisements. Actually I haven't seen any advertisements in Windows 8, and I've been running it since the DP - that's a year ago in maybe two weeks.[/QUOTE] Doesn't the built in weather app have adds?

I don't understand one thing though, why did they remove so much, and not make it optional? Like the start menu, I know you can enable it through third-party programs, but I generally don't like modifying windows itself with third party programs, so why not just make it optional? The same with Metro, really, if they wanted to make a universal OS thats fine, but why not allow desktop PC users to tick Metro off when you are installing, or disable it later?

[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;37860590]I've seen screenshots where there's ads (but they're normally hidden at the edge of a screen not that that makes it any less ridiculous, it's just less noticeable) but I've never actual encountered one myself.[/QUOTE] I remember there bing an article on it, but as far as I'm concerned it's never been seriously considered by Microsoft. I haven't encountered any ads in any app (not the Weather app either, and to my knowledge it hasn't changed from CP to RTM) in the CP. Maybe Microsoft will introduce a store with advertisements into the msuic store, but that'll be just like with iTunes. Besides, you could always just use WMP (or any other media player) to play music, and as desktop users I assume you'll be using those instead of the Metro version. [editline]30th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=fantafuzz;37860706]I don't understand one thing though, why did they remove so much, and not make it optional? Like the start menu, I know you can enable it through third-party programs, but I generally don't like modifying windows itself with third party programs, so why not just make it optional? The same with Metro, really, if they wanted to make a universal OS thats fine, but why not allow desktop PC users to tick Metro off when you are installing, or disable it later?[/QUOTE] Because they honestly believe that it's better? Because they want their hardware partners to make hardware that compliment their OS, instead of letting them be lazy? Microsoft is trying to push change with this product - new form factors are popping up, and it's the same reason why Microsoft made the Surface. Apple said "the post-PC era is here", but that's not what Microsoft thinks - they're trying to evolve the PC. They're not abandoning mouse and keyboard, but they want to combine it with new technologies coming out. If their hardware partners could just use the old interface per default, they wouldn't need to change the hardware at all, and we wouldn't see anything like the ASUS Taichi, and that alike.

[QUOTE=fantafuzz;37860706]I don't understand one thing though, why did they remove so much, and not make it optional?[/QUOTE] I wonder the same thing. Windows XP came with a new start menu (which wasn't all [i]that[/i] different, sure), but still had the option to use the Windows 95 styled start menu.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37859419]What advertisements? There's no advertisements in Windows 8, and that's just another sign that you never even tried it out (saying it's like the Xbox is also a sign).[/QUOTE] It is nearly the same, i watched that whole video and it's "simplicity" is actually fucking annoying. Half the new replacement features are retarded, and i dont mean the start button missing. There are ads in most of the applications that are intergrated. Navigation is a nightmare, programs sometimes dont show up when installed, and who needs windowed programs? Its ugly, confusing with the new stuff, and incredibly ugly. The only good thing about it how fast it is. And it is like xbox with the app navigation. Why the fuck do i want fat icons all over when i can make small shortcuts on the desktop.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37861038]Because they honestly believe that it's better?[/QUOTE] Ever wonder why open source software gets laughed at so often? This is why. Because the developers ignore community feedback and change UI elements for something that is 'better'. Then shit like unity happens and everyone leaves to go elsewhere. Remember when Ubuntu was by far and away the dominant distro? Yeah, ignoring community feedback sure paid off didn't it?

[QUOTE=geel9;37857574]Hello Mr. Wrong It's $40 to change. "Fuckton?" I think not. You gain nothing? Gee willy, I guess significantly faster boot times, built-in antivirus, faster UI and more is just nothing. You're [b]wrong[/b][/QUOTE] I was not talking about the price for changing to windows 8 as a private person, but as a school or company. Faster UI? Boot times if probably useful for a lot of people, but windows 7 with SSD's in my case, is booting fast enough. Do you still have to press a key before being able enter your password in windows 8? Annoyed me to shit.

[QUOTE=CrumbleShake;37860590]I've seen screenshots where there's ads (but they're normally hidden at the edge of a screen not that that makes it any less ridiculous, it's just less noticeable) but I've never actual encountered one myself.[/QUOTE] Uh Maybe that's the website adding ads? There are [b]no fucking ads[/b]

[QUOTE=codemaster85;37861420]It is nearly the same, i watched that whole video and it's "simplicity" is actually fucking annoying. Half the new replacement features are retarded, and i dont mean the start button missing. There are ads in most of the applications that are intergrated. Navigation is a nightmare, programs sometimes dont show up when installed, and who needs windowed programs? Its ugly, confusing with the new stuff, and incredibly ugly. The only good thing about it how fast it is. And it is like xbox with the app navigation. Why the fuck do i want fat icons all over when i can make small shortcuts on the desktop.[/QUOTE] Oh so all your information came from the video posted earlier on? I suggest you try it out yourself, otherwise there's really no use arguing with you - I don't mean to be offensive, but the video is so void of even the most basic information that using it as a basis for an argument is completely redundant. And the desktop is there.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37861558]Oh so all your information came from the video posted earlier on? I suggest you try it out yourself, otherwise there's really no use arguing with you - I don't mean to be offensive, but the video is so void of even the most basic information that using it as a basis for an argument is completely redundant. And the desktop is there.[/QUOTE] when i see all the thing of "why would you do that" no. ill stick with my good win 7 that has barely any problems and is easy to use.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;37861420]It is nearly the same, i watched that whole video and it's "simplicity" is actually fucking annoying. Half the new replacement features are retarded, and i dont mean the start button missing. There are ads in most of the applications that are intergrated. Navigation is a nightmare, programs sometimes dont show up when installed, and who needs windowed programs? Its ugly, confusing with the new stuff, and incredibly ugly. The only good thing about it how fast it is. And it is like xbox with the app navigation. Why the fuck do i want fat icons all over when i can make small shortcuts on the desktop.[/QUOTE] Jesus christ you guys still don't know that the Start Screen isn't the whole OS?

[QUOTE=Wootman;37861602]Jesus christ you guys still don't know that the Start Screen isn't the whole OS?[/QUOTE] that would imply some semblance of rational thinking and intelligence so obviously not lol

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;37861432]Ever wonder why open source software gets laughed at so often? This is why. Because the developers ignore community feedback and change UI elements for something that is 'better'. Then shit like unity happens and everyone leaves to go elsewhere. Remember when Ubuntu was by far and away the dominant distro? Yeah, ignoring community feedback sure paid off didn't it?[/QUOTE] Why did they change from the MS-DOS application launcher to the start menu? Because they actually thought it was a better solution - even though a lot of people complained. Why did the mouse ever catch on, even though many people said that it was useless compared to the keyboard? Because it ended up being the best solution. In the case of the mouse, I think the reason why people critizised it, was simply because GUIs were simply non-existant, because they didn't work efficiently in the context of keyboards. I think Windows 8 will be kind of the same - it'll allow manufacturers to push a new type of hardware, without necessarily throwing everything old out of the window. Besides, I tried Ubuntu some time back, and I didn't think the UI was especially good at that point either.

Still looking for someone to explain to me why not having the capacity for nested folders on the start screen isn't retarded.

Looks neat and advanced but a bit awkward in some places. Like ASIMO.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37861640]Why did they change from the MS-DOS application launcher to the start menu? Because they actually thought it was a better solution - even though a lot of people complained. Why did the mouse ever catch on, even though many people said that it was useless compared to the keyboard? Because it ended up being the best solution. In the case of the mouse, I think the reason why people critizised it, was simply because GUIs were simply non-existant, because they didn't work efficiently in the context of keyboards. I think Windows 8 will be kind of the same - it'll allow manufacturers to push a new type of hardware, without necessarily throwing everything old out of the window. Besides, I tried Ubuntu some time back, and I didn't think the UI was especially good at that point either.[/QUOTE] GUIs were a step forward. Everyone knew that, or at least everyone who understood where things were going. x11 and related crap (at least thats what I think it was, might be wrong), was an enormous usability leap. GUIs enabled a degree of multitasking that simply did not exist beforehand. This does not improve on that at all. It takes perfectly workable systems and rather than enhancing them like a sane person would pitches core elements out the window and slows things down. If anything, metro applications actually reduce the degree of multitasking enabled without going back to the start screen, [B]which is an enormous fucking waste of time when you have 6 million pixels of screen to work with.[/B] The addition of more clicks and scrolling to get places is a serious step backwards, and it seriously confuses me how anyone can argue that it isn't.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;37861585]when i see all the thing of "why would you do that" no. ill stick with my good win 7 that has barely any problems and is easy to use.[/QUOTE] Well, why are you trying to argue with me, then? If you have no actual idea (or wish to obtain such) of how Windows 8 actually works, why even bother? The sad thing is that you represent 90% of all Windows 8 critics - I have no problem with people disliking it - it's not like I made the software or have feelings for Microsoft in any shape or form - but having completely uninformed people jump around in their own shitty circlejerk is just awful. Try it out, say it's bad - cool, I won't stop you. But you're honestly just making an ass of yourself right now. [editline]30th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Zephyrs;37861673]GUIs were a step forward. Everyone knew that, or at least everyone who understood where things were going. x11 and related crap (at least thats what I think it was, might be wrong), was an enormous usability leap. GUIs enabled a degree of multitasking that simply did not exist beforehand. This does not improve on that at all. It takes perfectly workable systems and rather than enhancing them like a sane person would pitches core elements out the window and slows things down. If anything, metro actually reduces the degree of multitasking enabled without going back to the start screen, [b]which is an enormous fucking waste of time when you have 6 million pixels of screen to work with.[/b][/QUOTE] It's like you completely missed my point and then proved it. And how does the start screen limit multitasking? It doesn't.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37861696] It's like you completely missed my point and then proved it. And how does the start screen limit multitasking? It doesn't.[/QUOTE] Metro applications limit multitasking because you cannot control the amount of screen real estate that they occupy, or at least not to the same degree as before. That is a step backwards, no matter how you splice it. If I implied that the start screen is responsible for that I apologize. I view these as two separate, but acute problems.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;37861720]Metro applications limit multitasking because you cannot control the amount of screen real estate that they occupy. If I implied that the start screen is responsible for that I apologize. I view these as two separate, but acute problems.[/QUOTE] The apps part of Windows 8 is obviously made for tablet users - any multitasking is a step forward. I won't tell you to use Metro apps, for they're not very mouse and keyboard friendly. But I actually found that having the desktop taking up 3/4 of the screen and snapping a metro app like the music player on the side proved quite useful. Still, I won't pretend that the Metro environment as a whole isn't more tablet focused, and I think Microsoft themselves made it clear when they only allowed Metro Apps into the store (desktop applications can still be submitted, but you'll be sent to a home page when you press download). The Start Screen on the other hand - I don't find that to necessarily work worse with mouse than the old start menu did.

[QUOTE=Stopper;37856495][video=youtube;X0fsyb-ttcw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0fsyb-ttcw[/video] This is why I don't like Windows 8.[/QUOTE] You know that video is old. Annotation said it.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37861775]The apps part of Windows 8 is obviously made for tablet users - any multitasking is a step forward. I won't tell you to use Metro apps, for they're not very mouse and keyboard friendly. But I actually found that having the desktop taking up 3/4 of the screen and snapping a metro app like the music player on the side proved quite useful. Still, I won't pretend that the Metro environment as a whole isn't more tablet focused, and I think Microsoft themselves made it clear when they only allowed Metro Apps into the store (desktop applications can still be submitted, but you'll be sent to a home page when you press download). The Start Screen on the other hand - I don't find that to necessarily work worse with mouse than the old start menu did.[/QUOTE] They already supported this snapping in 7 via windows + arrow keys. Why not simply expand upon that? Even then, like it or not, it does not provide the same degree of customization. I cannot create snap categories to bind applications to small sections on my screen. That would have been an amazing addition for my scenario on the previous page where I compress a media player into a square while another application occupies the rest of it. It's all vertical divisions, and predetermined sizes at that last I checked. On top of this, last I checked, there's no goddam hotkeys for it, and it had a seizure with multiple screens. Additionally, we come back full circle to the whole, "Why the fuck can't I opt out of this shit if it was built for tablets?" debate.

Win8 is actually a bit of a jump from Win7, in a good way. My excitement for Win8 dropped to 0 after I switched to Linux, though v:v:v [editline]30th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Zephyrs;37861884]They already supported this snapping in 7 via windows + arrow keys. Why not simply expand upon that? Even then, like it or not, it does not provide the same degree of customization. I cannot create snap categories to bind applications to small sections on my screen. That would have been an amazing addition for my scenario on the previous page where I compress a media player into a square while another application occupies the rest of it. It's all vertical divisions, and predetermined sizes at that last I checked. On top of this, last I checked, there's no goddam hotkeys for it, and it had a seizure with multiple screens. Additionally, we come back full circle to the whole, "Why the fuck can't I opt out of this shit if it was built for tablets?" debate.[/QUOTE] Classic Shell and Start8 both give you the old menu. If you really don't want to adapt to change then tough shit, you're going to have to change it yourself.

[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;37861895] Classic Shell and Start8 both give you the old menu. If you really don't want to adapt to change then tough shit, you're going to have to change it yourself.[/QUOTE] I don't really mind doing this. Corporations do though. I can do a one to one comparison and say that flipping the gas and the brake pedals on cars is a change. Lets say that someone did a study and found it was better. Don't like it? Tough shit, you need to modify your vehicle yourself to go back. This is a really poor line of reasoning.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;37861038]Because they honestly believe that it's better? Because they want their hardware partners to make hardware that compliment their OS, instead of letting them be lazy? Microsoft is trying to push change with this product - new form factors are popping up, and it's the same reason why Microsoft made the Surface. Apple said "the post-PC era is here", but that's not what Microsoft thinks - they're trying to evolve the PC. They're not abandoning mouse and keyboard, but they want to combine it with new technologies coming out. If their hardware partners could just use the old interface per default, they wouldn't need to change the hardware at all, and we wouldn't see anything like the ASUS Taichi, and that alike.[/QUOTE] Why fix it if it isnt broken? I can understand wanting to push change, but why fully remove the start menu, that most everyone enjoys to use? Even though apple said so, the post PC apple is not here, as there is no successor to the standard PC. Optimizing a desktop OS so you can use it more simply use it on a smaller device, without adding support for the older, more widespread platforms is not okay. The only reason I can see for Microsoft not improving on the start menu is lazyness, as they have improved on many other things, but the start menu was simply scrapped, for a concept that works fine on some platforms, but not so good on others.

[QUOTE=geel9;37861631]that would imply some semblance of rational thinking and intelligence so obviously not lol[/QUOTE] its still terrible, why the fuck even have it other than trying to "simplify" shit. Who needs it, why not just make win 7 again with better performance, security, and neat features.

[QUOTE=codemaster85;37862160]its still terrible, why the fuck even have it other than trying to "simplify" shit. Who needs it, why not just make win 7 again with better performance, security, and neat features.[/QUOTE] Thats usually what fits in a service pack but for some reason Microsoft is doing biannual OS' now.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;37861984]I don't really mind doing this. Corporations do though. I can do a one to one comparison and say that flipping the gas and the brake pedals on cars is a change. Lets say that someone did a study and found it was better. Don't like it? Tough shit, you need to modify your vehicle yourself to go back. This is a really poor line of reasoning.[/QUOTE] Don't see how it is, that was just a really bad *car analogy*. Metro is never going to be used if they give users the option at startup or whatever, people are always going to pick what they're used to. Some people will never realise that they might actually like metro if they don't try it.