[QUOTE=wauterboi;51841363]Until people can see others as people that aren't blubbering idiots the world will continue to burn. Frankly, this comment is disgusting.[/QUOTE]
it's really hard to not see drooling childlike retards as drooling childlike retards
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51841391]You could go to the_Donald and make a nice, calm and kind critic on Donald Trump and you'd most likely be banned and insulted. Frankly, this comment is naive.[/QUOTE]
I probably wouldn't be able to go to a majority of fandom or support reddits and do that though.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51841430]it's really hard to not see drooling childlike retards as drooling childlike retards[/QUOTE]
And you're saying with [I]full confidence[/I] that they're that retarded? You've [I]never[/I] met a level-headed Trump supporter, [I]ever[/I]? They're all mouthbreathing dopes to you?
Let me give some perspective - I was a Bernie fan. I loved Bernie. And I thought similar things about Trump supporters until I actually talked to them. There's some of them on my college campus, and some over the net that are able to have a rational conversation. Dick Masterson of The Dick Show and The Biggest Problem in the Universe is also a Trump supporter that I've gotten into good conversations with. So when someone says these people are so stupid that they'd eat Donald Trump's shit I have a problem with it from the standpoint of having Trump-supporting friends that aren't that, but I also have a problem with that because if people were to do this with the left people would freak the fuck out. It's not useful conversation to just say "so and so is X".
And I've been called a "cuck" and all sorts of insults, but I treat them like the people that would call me a cis-gendered white male. There's mediums to both sides and not all of them are that immovable or impossible to talk to.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;51841472]I probably wouldn't be able to go to a majority of fandom or support reddits and do that though.[/QUOTE]
Yes you would, fans are usually the most critical of the things they like, as an example, Star Trek fans.
Blind uncompromising faith in something terrible is hardly the norm in any fandom for [I]anything[/I] and yet r/Donald has tons of it.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;51841472]And you're saying with [I]full confidence[/I] that they're that retarded? You've [I]never[/I] met a level-headed Trump supporter, [I]ever[/I]? They're all mouthbreathing dopes to you?.[/QUOTE]
Yes. Without exception.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;51841472]I probably wouldn't be able to go to a majority of fandom or support reddits and do that though.
And you're saying with [I]full confidence[/I] that they're that retarded? You've [I]never[/I] met a level-headed Trump supporter, [I]ever[/I]? They're all mouthbreathing dopes to you?
Let me give some perspective - I was a Bernie fan. I loved Bernie. And I thought similar things about Trump supporters until I actually talked to them. There's some of them on my college campus, and some over the net that are able to have a rational conversation. Dick Masterson of The Dick Show and The Biggest Problem in the Universe is also a Trump supporter that I've gotten into good conversations with. So when someone says these people are so stupid that they'd eat Donald Trump's shit I have a problem with it from the standpoint of having Trump-supporting friends that aren't that, but I also have a problem with that because if people were to do this with the left people would freak the fuck out. It's not useful conversation to just say "so and so is X".
And I've been called a "cuck" and all sorts of insults, but I treat them like the people that would call me a cis-gendered white male. There's mediums to both sides and not all of them are that immovable or impossible to talk to.[/QUOTE]
Like it or not, when you have someone that's the embodiment of corruption and regressive-ness as President, they are going to have serious doubts when you support that kind of person.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51841089]This is what killed Romney's campaign, no?[/QUOTE]
No, Romney's was telling a room full of rich people that the poor half of America doesn't matter. This is Trump telling a room full of rich people who pay him that they should come watch the interviews for cabinet members and asking them for recommendations.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51841513]Yes. Without exception.[/QUOTE]
Well, at least you're doing your part to heal the ever-widening political rift that has resulted in the normalization of increasingly radicalized ideology by fighting back against the stupid generalizations and factional bullshit that has overtaken political discourse in the last decade.
...
Wow, Trump talked to his friends about becoming the president? WTF I hate Trump now!
[QUOTE=SomeRandomGuy18;51841561]Wow, Trump talked to his friends about becoming the president? WTF I hate Trump now![/QUOTE]
what you fail to realize is the hypocrisy present in the majority of arguments from trumps supporters in regards to this and the identical situation Hilary was in
It's okay for Trump but not for her, so we have a clear double standard.
[QUOTE=Nautsabes;51841415]trying to argue with core supporters is pointless anyway since theyre never going to change their minds. who the left should be trying to sway are the centrists/moderates/people that didnt vote. as long as more and more people dont bother participating, the worse the system is going to get.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much. The best thing you can hope for is to use logic and reasoning and hope you get through to the people who similarly use logic and reasoning. When people believe Trump is the best option because the only alternative is nuclear holocaust, you aren't going to have much luck with pretty much any argument in trying to turn them around to your side. I've tried. The best thing you can do is try and convince the audience.
The plus side is that eventually, no matter how long it takes, the truth always wins out. And Trump, as well as those that support him, have proven time and time again that truth is their enemy.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51841553]Well, at least you're doing your part to heal the ever-widening political rift that has resulted in the normalization of increasingly radicalized ideology by fighting back against the stupid generalizations and factional bullshit that has overtaken political discourse in the last decade.
...[/QUOTE]
There's this bizarre trend where people are constantly blaming left-leaner's behavior as the result of extremist growth, the problem lies in the said decade where people had to argue against intolerant conservatives that didn't budge an inch no matter what even when proven wrong, they've grown tired and pissed off because of it, the extreme leftist and rightist taking advantage of it didn't help either. This was bound to happen sooner or later.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51841553]Well, at least you're doing your part to heal the ever-widening political rift that has resulted in the normalization of increasingly radicalized ideology by fighting back against the stupid generalizations and factional bullshit that has overtaken political discourse in the last decade.
...[/QUOTE]
While I agree with you, no one is trying to heal the divide. The right flat out doesn't want the divide healed, they seem happy where they are, the left is also equally convicted of their beliefs and doesn't seem to be willing to make any changes in that regard.
With that said, there seems to be a reluctance to engage in genuine conversation and discussion which may very well come from people like Scorpio, but I can't really say it does when even a year ago, we had the same lack of desire to engage in genuine conversation. Just memes and the like. I don't think the hate and furthering of the divide is justified, but I wonder what we can even do at this point.
We have reasonable conservatives here, we see them make reasonable arguments but we also see them wholesale ignore uncomfortable topics. There is an unwillingness to engage respectfully from both sides and I keep trying to bridge that but it really doesn't seem like the people I interact with even want that.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51841553]Well, at least you're doing your part to heal the ever-widening political rift that has resulted in the normalization of increasingly radicalized ideology by fighting back against the stupid generalizations and factional bullshit that has overtaken political discourse in the last decade.
...[/QUOTE]
We're clearly past the point of reasonable discourse. Might as well just call a spade a fucking spade at this point.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51841576]Pretty much. The best thing you can hope for is to use logic and reasoning and hope you get through to the people who similarly use logic and reasoning. When people believe Trump is the best option because the only alternative is nuclear holocaust, you aren't going to have much luck with pretty much any argument in trying to turn them around to your side. I've tried. The best thing you can do is try and convince the audience.
The plus side is that eventually, no matter how long it takes, the truth always wins out. And Trump, as well as those that support him, have proven time and time again that truth is their enemy.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes people have an idea of what the other side is like. Racists have an idea of what black people are like, but it generally isn't founded in reality but hearsay. Trump supporters sometimes have an idea of what liberals are like, and it's informed by the fear of the regressive left. Liberals sometimes have an idea of what Trump supporters are like, and that's informed by different news sources, different political commentators, and more. Sometimes the way to break this cycle is directly interact with these people and show that you're not an asshole and give them a chance to talk to you like a normal person. Not everyone responds well to this, but it isn't a Trump thing. It's a people thing. The more we try to make it out that it's a Trump problem the worse our situation is going to be due to blindness. This is happening in the left as we speak. The left has crafted its own stereotypes just as the right has come up with their idea of the "cuck". It's gotta stop.
[editline]18th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;51841582]There's this bizarre trend where people are constantly blaming left-leaner's behavior as the result of extremist growth, the problem lies in the said decade where people had to argue against intolerant conservatives that didn't budge an inch no matter what even when proven wrong, they've grown tired and pissed off because of it, the extreme leftist and rightist taking advantage of it didn't help either. This was bound to happen sooner or later.[/QUOTE]
I think it's an on-going chain reaction. You've got conservatives during the Bush administration pushing people to their limits, leading to a lot of liberal momentum that unfortunately made it into SJW territory, which then led to a growth of the alt-right. It's like a metronome, except it's getting faster and faster and soon it's going to break.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;51841597]It's gotta stop.[/QUOTE]
And yet again, it's probably not going to happen in America as reasonable discourse was thrown out the window when those who were willing lost it arguing with intolerant/stubborn people(from whatever support side, of course).
[QUOTE=wauterboi;51841597]I think it's an on-going chain reaction. You've got conservatives during the Bush administration pushing people to their limits, leading to a lot of liberal momentum that unfortunately made it into SJW territory, which then led to a growth of the alt-right. It's like a metronome, except it's getting faster and faster and soon it's going to break.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, that's more properly worded out of what I'm trying to say.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51841553]Well, at least you're doing your part to heal the ever-widening political rift that has resulted in the normalization of increasingly radicalized ideology by fighting back against the stupid generalizations and factional bullshit that has overtaken political discourse in the last decade.
...[/QUOTE]
I've to meet and actually discuss Trump's policies and corruption with a Trump supporter that isn't either painfully ignorant, dilusional, or dishonest about their argument. Sorry if this makes me view them as general deplorables.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51841553]Well, at least you're doing your part to heal the ever-widening political rift that has resulted in the normalization of increasingly radicalized ideology by fighting back against the stupid generalizations and factional bullshit that has overtaken political discourse in the last decade.
...[/QUOTE]
To be honest family it's really hard not to feel cynical when you go into a debate with earnest and the person you are arguing with bails out, tells you to do it over PM's, then shitposts in the videos section about how violent the left is and TUCKER CARLSON destroys SMUG LEFTIST.
I don't agree with Scorpio et al but I can understand the frustration, and pandering to his sense of empathy in "healing the ever-widening political rift" is going to do literally nothing for people who feel like they weren't even given a chance to do so.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51841592]tbh it's not okay for him either but he's already elected and he's not doing anything illegal so it doesn't matter anymore lol[/QUOTE]
this is the epitome of complacency
[editline]18th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51841627]To be honest family it's really hard not to feel cynical when you go into a debate with earnest and the person you are arguing with bails out, tells you to do it over PM's, then shitposts in the videos section about how violent the left is and TUCKER CARLSON destroys SMUG LEFTIST.
I don't agree with Scorpio et al but I can understand the frustration, and pandering to his sense of empathy in "healing the ever-widening political rift" is going to do literally nothing for people who feel like they weren't even given a chance to do so.[/QUOTE]
This one fucking thousand times over.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51841668]i just think there are much more important things than such a minor issue to care about[/QUOTE]
We tried to point out why certain other things, like removing regulations on dumping mine waste, were bad too, but all we got were evasions back then too. People are getting frustrated plenty fast when arguments or discussions don't go anywhere, or when people dump their drive-by terrible post in an effort to rile people up too.
Trump supporters can also start following the simple rule about not saying anything if they don't have anything to say that doesn't contribute to a thread.
And hell, I went out of my way to try and make the likes of wystan understand that abortion should be a mother's right and not something the government should interfere with, purely because of all the complex issues surrounding it. When I thought I had convinced him, he himself turned around the very next such thread and went back to yammering about consequences for having sex.
My question is: how do you get through to such people? It also has a pretty simple answer - some people are so blinded or rigid in their beliefs they just won't have anything to do with stuff that challenges these beliefs.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51841668]i just think there are much more important things than such a minor issue to care about[/QUOTE]
You know what? I don't give a shit.
You have displayed a clear "Lack of shits to give" about any, and all issues involving this subject, context, election period, discussion points of any variety. You are the epitome of complacency, non-discussion "discussions", deflection, and self delusion. I do not care if you think this isn't important. You've made it clear nothing is really important if a leftist cares about it.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51841689]We tried to point out why certain other things, like removing regulations on dumping mine waste, were bad too, but all we got were evasions back then too. People are getting frustrated plenty fast when arguments or discussions don't go anywhere, or when people dump their drive-by terrible post in an effort to rile people up too.
Trump supporters can also start following the simple rule about not saying anything if they don't have anything to say that doesn't contribute to a thread.
And hell, I went out of my way to try and make the likes of wystan understand that abortion should be a mother's right and not something the government should interfere with, purely because of all the complex issues surrounding it. When I thought I had convinced him, he himself turned around the very next such thread and went back to yammering about consequences for having sex.
My question is: how do you get through to such people? It also has a pretty simple answer - some people are so blinded or rigid in their beliefs they just won't have anything to do with stuff that challenges these beliefs.[/QUOTE]
This exactly. Trying to debate issues with Trump supporters is like trying to nail jello to the wall.
During the election all of crooked shillary's secret speeches and emails were the most fucking important thing on the planet, and leaks were fine. Now all of Trump's shady shit "isn't important" and leaks are a travesty that need to be quashed immediately.
Talking is useless.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51841711]ok lol sorry for not giving a shit about something so minor that every other politician did before him
sorry for thinking people should focus on important issues like illegal immigration and fixing the economy instead of "oh look he rewarded a campaign donor" and other personal attacks on trump pushed by the media[/QUOTE]
you were one of the people crucifying hilary over similar shit so I fully do not believe you
I fully believe you are a disingenuous, dishonest person willing to spin events, words, and history to your benefit at the drop of a hat. You actually have done that for a year. I'm pretty fucking sick of it.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51841711]ok lol sorry for not giving a shit about something so minor that every other politician did before him
sorry for thinking people should focus on important issues like illegal immigration and fixing the economy instead of "oh look he rewarded a campaign donor" and other personal attacks on trump pushed by the media[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry that you're incapable of thinking of more than one issue at once but the rest of us are able to so please stop telling us to 'focus on something else instead'.
[QUOTE=Fort83;51841707]Did you say the same thing when Hillary was dealing with a similar issue?[/QUOTE]
No. He went on tirades and shit on several liberal posters here over it. He's a liar.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51841711]ok lol sorry for not giving a shit about something so minor that every other politician did before him
sorry for thinking people should focus on important issues like illegal immigration and fixing the economy instead of "oh look he rewarded a campaign donor" and other personal attacks on trump pushed by the media[/QUOTE]
Please keep going, we both know that "rewarding a campaign donor" is basically corrupt as shit especially if you select climate change deniers, billionaire businessmen, and inefficient morons as part of your cabinet.
Your god emperor could do with actually bringing back some of those jobs he promised that aren't construction or coal mining, or taking credit for what Obummer did his time in office.
And instead of going after the media for doing their fucking jobs, he can grow a pair and stop acting like a manchild every time somebody says something remotely critical of him or blocks one of his asinine proposals.
People will respect him if he stops acting like a child, and not before this happens.
Don't bother arguing with Cructo. I've tried reasoning with him literally tens of times, but he's never showed a shred of intellectual honesty, and he's an unrepentant hypocrite. With so much of Trump's shaft down his throat that the man's pubes are up his nose, it's a wonder he can even see his keyboard.
Maybe he's a touch typist.
[QUOTE=Cructo;51841739]i didn't see this same outrage when obama rewarded his donors with embassy jobs huh i guess he should've been impeached for being corrupt
believe what you will, if you dont like me you can use the ignore function so you dont see posts you dont like so you dont have to derail threads[/QUOTE]
Are you aware of the distinction between an embassy job and being put in charge of a massive part of our government, like education?
[QUOTE=Cructo;51841739]i didn't see this same outrage when obama rewarded his donors with embassy jobs huh i guess he should've been impeached for being corrupt
believe what you will, if you dont like me you can use the ignore function so you dont see posts you dont like so you dont have to derail threads[/QUOTE]
You are ignored. I saw an exceptionally stupid post and had to take it to task due to the [B]blantant[/B] and absolutely undeniable hypocrisy [B]you[/B] display on a consistent basis.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51841430]it's really hard to not see drooling childlike retards as drooling childlike retards[/QUOTE]
Do you have any idea how fucking hypocritical it makes you look when you make a bullshit claim like "every person who voted for Trump is a drooling childlike retard"?
What the fuck are you thinking?
[QUOTE=geel9;51841761]Do you have any idea how fucking hypocritical it makes you look when you make a bullshit claim like "every person who voted for Trump is a drooling childlike retard"?
What the fuck are you thinking?[/QUOTE]
please, feel free to show me a smart trump supporter
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
