[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51841783]please, feel free to show me a smart trump supporter[/QUOTE]
My friend Brandon is an aerospace engineer. We built a go-kart together that can move in any cardinal direction. He's a very intelligent individual. He voted for Trump.
Of course, you're going to respond with "but anyone who votes for Trump is unintelligent [according to my subjective standards] so hah"
[QUOTE=geel9;51841792]My friend Brandon is an aerospace engineer. We built a go-kart together that can move in any cardinal direction. He's a very intelligent individual. He voted for Trump.
Of course, you're going to respond with "but anyone who votes for Trump is unintelligent [according to my subjective standards] so hah"[/QUOTE]
and ben carson is a top neurosurgeon
he's also a fucking moron who thinks the pyramids were used to store grain
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51841801]and ben carson is a top neurosurgeon
he's also a fucking moron who thinks the pyramids were used to store grain[/QUOTE]
I think the issue here is that you claim to have some objective measure by which you can measure intelligence. Please do share it.
[QUOTE=geel9;51841809]I think the issue here is that you claim to have some objective measure by which you can measure intelligence. Please do share it.[/QUOTE]
People with degrees can be educationally smart in their field of study.
It does not make them economically, environmentally, or socially aware.
[QUOTE=Ricenchicken;51841812]People with degrees can be educationally smart in their field of study.
It does not make them economically, environmentally, or socially aware.[/QUOTE]
And a single vote does not completely invalidate someone's mental capacity and turn them into literal "childlike drooling retards".
[QUOTE=Cructo;51841711]ok lol sorry for not giving a shit about something so minor that every other politician did before him
sorry for thinking people should focus on important issues like illegal immigration and fixing the economy instead of "oh look he rewarded a campaign donor" and other personal attacks on trump pushed by the media[/QUOTE]
A lot of the posters you are replying to have given their thoughts on immigration and economics in the threads that are relevant to them. Generally they disagree with Trump in this instance, but they do focus on the issue.
Personally I'm pro-strong borders. I'd even be compelled to support a "wall" if Trump and the Republicans can find out a way to pay for it in a way that isn't back asswards. But I can also call out Trumps hypocrisy in other fields. Shit ain't hard yo.
[QUOTE=geel9;51841818]And a single vote does not completely invalidate someone's mental capacity and turn them into literal "childlike drooling retards".[/QUOTE]
I agree. That comment was a little too much imo. However, a lot of Trump supporters believed he would do right by the country, and from the majority of his actions so far it seems to deny any beliefs those people had. There are some extremes on both sides.
[QUOTE=geel9;51841809]I think the issue here is that you claim to have some objective measure by which you can measure intelligence. Please do share it.[/QUOTE]
I think it's fair to describe people dumb enough to fall for the rhetoric of one of the most terrifyingly incompetent populists in history of the country as stupid.
I mean, I guess you could argue that the average person is so severely mentally handicapped that the bar for stupidity needs to be set even lower. If that's how you feel, then fair enough I guess.
[QUOTE=CunningHam;51841850]While I agree with a lot of your sentiments, I think what Scorpio and others are getting at is that a great many of vocal trump supporters even on here tend to blatantly and proudly dismiss and willfully ignore any reasoning.
It's not right, but it's very easy to get this frustrated.[/QUOTE]
If that's what he's getting at he should say that, instead of saying:
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51841430]it's really hard to not see drooling childlike retards as drooling childlike retards[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51841513]
[QUOTE=wauterboi;51841472]
And you're saying with [I]full confidence[/I] that they're that retarded? You've [I]never[/I] met a level-headed Trump supporter, [I]ever[/I]? They're all mouthbreathing dopes to you?
[/QUOTE]
Yes. Without exception.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't sound like what you're saying he meant. He was pretty explicit in his condemnation of any and every person who voted for Trump. He explicitly defined how he literally views them.
[editline]18th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51841865]I think it's fair to describe people dumb enough to fall for the rhetoric of one of the most terrifyingly incompetent populists in history of the country as stupid.
I mean, I guess you could argue that the average person is so severely mentally handicapped that the bar for stupidity needs to be set even lower. If that's how you feel, then fair enough I guess.[/QUOTE]
I think you're an embarrassment to the cause you claim to be a part of.
So the tape seems a little more than benign after listening to it. The most objectionable part is of course where Trump is asking some folks to come down to the golf club during his interviews, but I dunno, just listening to it I get the feeling he's not being serious. These people have been paying into his club for decades, it's clear he has a personal relationship with most of them, and it sounds like he's just talking with them, having a good time and jabbing at the presidency with a few of them.
IMO this kind of speech sounds like the sort you'd give to folks who's money you've been managing well, lots of humor and good times and all. It certainly doesn't seem as scandalous as the article makes it out to be, but maybe that's just me.
[Editline]crucify me[/editline]
Oddly enough, it almost sounds like he's trying to sell them a golf club membership.
[QUOTE=geel9;51841867]If that's what he's getting at he should say that, instead of saying:
That doesn't sound like what you're saying he meant. He was pretty explicit in his condemnation of any and every person who voted for Trump. He explicitly defined how he literally views them.
I think you're an embarrassment to the cause you claim to be a part of.[/QUOTE]
What cause?
People are fucking stupid and I've given up. I'm not a part of some "cause".
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51841882]What cause?
People are fucking stupid and I've given up. I'm not a part of some "cause".[/QUOTE]
Fair enough. You're not part of a cause, you just think everyone's "fucking stupid" and you've given up.
Except for every time you get a chance to label around half of the entire US populace as "childlike drooling retards". That's when you come out of the shadows and un-give up just long enough to drop your ridiculous, completely uninformed opinions masquerading as objective fact before defending it with "hey, I've just given up man. Everyone's stupid".
[QUOTE=geel9;51841910]Fair enough. You're not part of a cause, you just think everyone's "fucking stupid" and you've given up.
Except for every time you get a chance to label around half of the entire US populace as "childlike drooling retards". That's when you come out of the shadows and un-give up just long enough to drop your ridiculous, completely uninformed opinions before defending it with "hey, I've just given up man. Everyone's stupid".[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are you talking about? My defense of my statement that people are fucking stupid is that people do and believe fucking stupid things.
"I've given up" is my response to people's moralizing about how "oh you're just making things worse" and "you're just a part of the problem". There is nothing anyone can do. The country is split into two sides that live in two completely separate fucking universes. You can't have a conversation when people can't even fucking agree on what's real and what isn't.
So yes, I've given up. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince people who think a president who casually makes statements that contradict easily observable reality is the most trustworthy source of information. I'm not going to waste my time debating policy and ethics with people who don't actually give a fuck about policy or ethics.
I'm still going to say what I think, and I'm still going to point out stupid shit when I see it. Just because I've given up on people doesn't mean I've given up on the truth.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;51841959]What the fuck are you talking about? My defense of my statement that people are fucking stupid is that people do and believe fucking stupid things.
"I've given up" is my response to people's moralizing about how "oh you're just making things worse" and "you're just a part of the problem". There is nothing anyone can do. The country is split into two sides that live in two completely separate fucking universes. [B]You can't have a conversation when people can't even fucking agree on what's real and what isn't.[/B]
So yes, I've given up.[B] I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince people who think a president who casually makes statements that contradict easily observable reality is the most trustworthy source of information. I'm not going to waste my time debating policy and ethics with people who don't actually give a fuck about policy or ethics.[/B]
I'm still going to say what I think, and I'm still going to point out stupid shit when I see it. Just because I've given up on people doesn't mean I've given up on the truth.[/QUOTE]
Bolded is basically where we are at right now.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51842001]Bolded is basically where we are at right now.[/QUOTE]
I'm actually having to think twice before leaving shitposts in news threads atm because it seems like the only way any of this seems alright is if I treat it like a big joke.
I get that anti-intellectualism has been on the rise for a while but I can't believe it's gotten so bad lately that one side of seemingly every political conversation isn't even grounded in [i] the real world[/i] any more.
How do you work towards ending division and finding common ground with people that literally live in a fantasy?
[QUOTE=geel9;51841910]Fair enough. You're not part of a cause, you just think everyone's "fucking stupid" and you've given up.
Except for every time you get a chance to label around half of the entire US populace as "childlike drooling retards". That's when you come out of the shadows and un-give up just long enough to drop your ridiculous, completely uninformed opinions masquerading as objective fact before defending it with "hey, I've just given up man. Everyone's stupid".[/QUOTE]
Talking about uninformed, only about a quarter of the US population voted for Trump; so viewing that minority as having poor judgment is a far cry from calling "everyone stupid".
[QUOTE=glitchvid;51842228]Talking about uninformed, only about a quarter of the US population voted for Trump; so viewing that minority as having poor judgment is a far cry from calling "everyone stupid".[/QUOTE]
A fifth, actually.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51841553]Well, at least you're doing your part to heal the ever-widening political rift that has resulted in the normalization of increasingly radicalized ideology by fighting back against the stupid generalizations and factional bullshit that has overtaken political discourse in the last decade.
...[/QUOTE]
Stop with this "healing the divide" bullshit. You expect minorities to befriend people who want to take their rights away? What about young people who will grow up to suffer from global warming? Why must they associate with climate change deniers? We should stop pretending the alt-right is a legitimate political group, worthy of tolerance - it is nothing but an unprogressive cult of personality that seeks to undermine democracy, and it should be treated as such.
[QUOTE=CanUBe;51842296]Stop with this "healing the divide" bullshit. You expect minorities to befriend people who want to take their rights away? What about young people who will grow up to suffer from global warming? Why must they associate with climate change deniers? We should stop pretending the alt-right is a legitimate political group, worthy of tolerance - it is nothing but an unprogressive cult of personality that seeks to undermine democracy, and it should be treated as such.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, BDA, but CanUBe is right here. Every time they've given the new conservatives an inch, they've demanded a house with a yard. No more quarter.
I feel like the overall detachment from reality that Trump projects, and, more terrifyingly, his avid supporters seem to mirror in many cases when either attempting to justify to others their support of Trump or Trump's activities, indicates a near cult of personality. What's worse is that we've barely scratched the surface of this presidency and we've already seen some really authoritarian motifs and actions out of Trump and his administration, and that cult of personality and/or apathy has people laughing at those who show genuine concern, [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-il"]despite[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fidel_Castro"]there[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashar_al-Assad"]being[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Franco"]plenty[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin"]of[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muammar_Gaddafi"]historic[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini"]examples[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein"]of[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler"]similar[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Mac%C3%ADas_Nguema"]situations[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong"]turning[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enver_Hoxha"]out[/URL] [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Il-sung"]disasterously. [/URL] I'm not saying that he's going to be the next Hitler or Mao or Hussein, IMHO he'll likely be something similar to some but entirely his own. He'll be something that future generations will warn each other of as a point of reference, colloquially calling a future budding despot or authoritarian as, "the next Trump."
[QUOTE=CanUBe;51842296]Stop with this "healing the divide" bullshit. You expect minorities to befriend people who want to take their rights away? What about young people who will grow up to suffer from global warming? Why must they associate with climate change deniers? We should stop pretending the alt-right is a legitimate political group, worthy of tolerance - it is nothing but an unprogressive cult of personality that seeks to undermine democracy, and it should be treated as such.[/QUOTE]
This.
Tolerance of intolerance or tolerance of stupidity does not achieve anything. You might get an emotionally-rewarding sensation that makes you [i]feel[/i] like something is being done, but in reality nothing has been resolved. The same old debates and disagreements, the same old transitions of power from one side to the other will go on and on and on. One side takes the reigns for a while and shits all over everything, the other side may eventually get the chance to take the reigns again but is preoccupied with cleaning up the other side's mess that it left; in the end, it can only achieve so much before the switch happens again.
And we can't afford to allow this trend to continue, whether we're talking about climate change and the necessity of environmental protection, healthcare and the necessity to provide it for everyone, education and the necessity to make it a matter of learning and not to push religious agendas (as the Republicans have been hell-bent on doing for a long time now), etc. There are a number of absolutely critical issues to the welfare and the success/stability of American society that must be decisively ruled on and resolved for its sake and the sake of its people.
One side has got to defeat the other in the end. That's how simple it is. The division and the hostility is not going anywhere. We've been building up to this point in our history for decades now. Hopefully, we have the opportunity to resolve it soon enough. All that's left for people to do is to choose what side they want to join, and to be prepared for when whatever reckoning is in store for us finally arrives.
Just the amount of anti-intellectualism (as others have commented on) these days that the right-wingers, Trump supporters, Republican sympathizers, etc. use to propel themselves outside of tangible reality and fact-based existence in order to justify their asinine beliefs is astonishing to the point of being fucking ridiculous. These people are clearly a problem for us, the people, and our country. They're the enemies of everything we stand for and are supposed to be, and moreover that we [i]should[/i] be. We can't keep making excuses and rationalizing what they're saying and doing as matters of "freedom", "having a right to an opinion", etc. There comes a point where there must be objectivity and decisiveness-- or else you fail to have a cohesive, functional society (which I would argue is where we're drifting towards today; in spite of the millions of people who are objective and decisive in their beliefs, there's millions who are not).
[QUOTE=fulgrim;51842088]How do you work towards ending division and finding common ground with people that literally live in a fantasy?[/QUOTE]
You don't. You said it yourself: [i]they live in a fantasy world[/i]. That makes it impossible.
[QUOTE=glitchvid;51842228]Talking about uninformed, only about a quarter of the US population voted for Trump; so viewing that minority as having poor judgment is a far cry from calling "everyone stupid".[/QUOTE]
Are you aware of the concept of a "sample size"?
[QUOTE=geel9;51842550]Are you aware of the concept of a "sample size"?[/QUOTE]
He's talking about the vote, not a poll. What does sample size have to do with this?
[QUOTE=_Axel;51842565]He's talking about the vote, not a poll. What does sample size have to do with this?[/QUOTE]
The vote is a poll.
[QUOTE=geel9;51842582]The vote is a poll.[/QUOTE]
No.
A vote, and in particular the US electoral system, is not even remotely similar to a poll.
The idea of "sample size" is based on the sampling being [I] representative of the general population[/I]. That's not the case with the vote, when something as simple as the state you vote in has an influence on turnout rate depending on your political alignment as well as many other characteristics.
And that's not even taking into account the amount of people who didn't vote because they don't care.
Clearly, to claim that Trump winning the election means about half of the country supports him is without basis.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51842565]He's talking about the vote, not a poll. What does sample size have to do with this?[/QUOTE]
Amount of people who voted is nowhere close to the US population.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51842595]No.
A vote, and in particular the US electoral system, is not even remotely similar to a poll.[/QUOTE]
We vote in [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polling_place]polling stations[/url] dude.
For the purposes of statistics, the vote is a poll.
[QUOTE=Xanadu;51842598]Amount of people who voted is nowhere close to the US population.[/QUOTE]
And?
That's still not proper sampling. If it were the vote's results would be an accurate description of the public stance but at present, high variations in turnout only prove my point.
[editline]19th February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=geel9;51842605]We vote in [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polling_place]polling stations[/url] dude.
For the purposes of statistics, the vote is a poll.[/QUOTE]
If you are to consider the vote as a poll that gauges public support, then it's a very poor one at that with a ludicrous margin of error.
the problem with calling the vote a poll is there is no control on the randomization of the sample you're looking at
[QUOTE=_Axel;51842624]And?
That's still not proper sampling. If it were the vote's results would be an accurate description of the public stance but at present, high variations in turnout only prove my point.
[editline]19th February 2017[/editline]
If you are to consider the vote as a poll that gauges public support, then it's a very poor one at that with a ludicrous margin of error.[/QUOTE]
My point exactly, it doesn't accurately represent the nation because there are too many people counted out that we could only speculate about, though that isn't to say a smaller, per-capita poll is any more accurate.
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