[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51851926]Explain to me how "Don't point a gun at something and pull the trigger unless you're trying to kill something" is "arbitrary"
Fucking how, seriously[/QUOTE]
It's arbitrary because there are plenty of situations where firing a warning shot is objectively better than not firing a warning shot when you don't have any alternatives.
There's a reason it happens all the time in the military, namely, because it often works.
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;51851755]Okay so apparently Trump can see into the future.[/QUOTE]
Trump has access to Tesla's secret papers, and Bannon is secretly a younger Trump operating on the grandfather paradox.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51851955]It's arbitrary because there are plenty of situations where firing a warning shot is objectively better than not firing a warning shot when you don't have any alternatives.[/QUOTE]
"But that's against the rules! You can't ignore firearm safety!"
I thought this sort of stuff happens all the time in sweden.
trump better not use this to justify his comments earlier, for fucks sake
A warning shot is the last warning a Swedish police officer gives before shooting you in the face.
On average there are 20 cases of warning shots being fired a year and 20 cases of actually shooting at a target, which can be a perpetrator, a vehicle and so on. And also roughly 200 cases of the police pointing their gun at a person.
From our police website, in Swedish.
[URL]https://polisen.se/Om-polisen/Sa-arbetar-Polisen/Polisens-befogenheter/Polisens-ratt-att-anvanda-skjutvapen/Hur-ofta-anvander-polisen-skjutvapen--/[/URL]
If possible our police shoots at the leg or arms of the perp, if not it's central mass.
Source: 215 page study done by the police about gun use, in Swedish. [url]https://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/Ovriga%20rapporter/Rapport%20polisens%20anv%20skjutvapen%20160201.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=UnknownDude;51851893]Fria Tider has a right-wing anti-immigrant bias, so here's an alternative source in Swedish.
[url]http://www.dn.se/sthlm/polisingripande-i-rinkeby-foljdes-av-upplopp-och-plundring/[/url][/QUOTE]
that explains the trump tweet at the end as if they're saying "see, he was right all along"
Trump still watches way too much fucking TV
[QUOTE=Swebonny;51852034]A warning shot is the last warning a Swedish police officer gives before shooting you in the face.
On average there are 20 cases of warning shots being fired a year and 20 cases of actually shooting at a target, which can be a perpetrator, a vehicle and so on. And also roughly 200 cases of the police pointing their gun at a person.
From our police website, in Swedish.
[URL]https://polisen.se/Om-polisen/Sa-arbetar-Polisen/Polisens-befogenheter/Polisens-ratt-att-anvanda-skjutvapen/Hur-ofta-anvander-polisen-skjutvapen--/[/URL]
If possible our police shoots at the leg or arms of the perp, if not it's central mass.
Source: 215 page study done by the police about gun use, in Swedish. [url]https://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/Ovriga%20rapporter/Rapport%20polisens%20anv%20skjutvapen%20160201.pdf[/url][/QUOTE]
I'm sure this triggers the fuck out of gun enthusiasts in the US
added another alternate source to op.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51852076]I'm sure this triggers the fuck out of gun enthusiasts in the US[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Det högsta antalet avlidna var fyra och inträffade år 2013. År 1999 respektive 2014 omkom tre personer vilka var de näst högsta antalen. Under åren 1996, 1997, 2007, 2008, 2012 omkom ingen.[/QUOTE]
Most deaths cause by police was 4, in 2013. In 1999 and 2014, 3 died. 1996, 1997, 2007, 2008 and 2013 no one was killed.
Our police doesn't use tasers either.
[editline]21st February 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=LittleBabyman;51851980]I thought this sort of stuff happens all the time in sweden.[/QUOTE]
Not all the time, but it does happen so frequently that it has become a problem. Rinkey is one of the 55 areas in Sweden that are deemed "unsafe" / more dangerous than normal.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51852076]I'm sure this triggers the fuck out of gun enthusiasts in the US[/QUOTE]
Why would this trigger gun enthusiasts?
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51851824]Do not pull the trigger unless you intend to kill the thing the barrel is facing.[/QUOTE]
you know
warning shots? the barrel wasnt even aimed at them to begin with jesus christ dude get over yourself
[QUOTE=da space core;51851921]Bullets fall[/QUOTE]
The terminal velocity of a bullet is far, far lower than when it flies out the barrel. A falling bullet will most likely bruise you at worst if you're even astronomally unlucky enough to get hit by it. While more massive bullets have a small chance to inflict serious damage, a standard round like a 9mm will rarely be able to achieve enough velocity to so much as break the skin.
[QUOTE=Cuon Alpinus;51852126]The terminal velocity of a bullet is far, far lower than when it flies out the barrel. A falling bullet will most likely bruise you at worst if you're even astronomally unlucky enough to get hit by it[/QUOTE]
[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebratory_gunfire#Notable_incidents]source[/url]
[quote]April 6, 2014: A 20-year-old pregnant mother of two, Wadia Baidawi, was struck in the head and killed by a stray bullet from her neighbor’s wedding in Sidon, Lebanon
November 21, 2012: Following a cease-fire ending fighting with Israel, celebratory gunfire in the Gaza Strip killed a man and wounded three others.
October 30, 2012: Twenty-three people were electrocuted after celebratory gunfire brought down a power cable during a wedding party in eastern Saudi Arabia.
August 2012: A Kuwaiti bridegroom was killed when a friend of his accidentally shot him as he charged his gun to fire into the air in celebration.
August 2010: 2 people were killed and 13 were injured in Jordan, as part of the yearly celebration of the announcement of the result of Tawjihi.
July 29, 2007: At least four people were reported killed and 17 others wounded by celebratory gunfire in the capital city of Baghdad, Iraq, following the victory of the national football team in the AFC Asian Cup. Celebratory gunfire occurred despite warnings issued by Iraqi security forces and the country's leading Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, who forbade the gunfire with a religious fatwā.
July 22, 2003: More than 20 people were reported killed in Iraq from celebratory gunfire following the deaths of Saddam Hussein's sons Uday and Qusay in 2003.
January 1, 2017: Armando Martinez, a Texas state Representative, was wounded in the head by a stray bullet during a New Year's celebration.
July 3, 2015: A 60-year-old man, Glenn Martin, was struck in the heart by a rifle bullet while sitting at a campfire with his family at Rainbow Falls in Colorado.
January 1, 2015: A 43-year-old man, Javier Suarez Rivera, was struck in his head and killed while watching fireworks with his family in Houston.
July 4, 2013: A 7-year-old boy, Brendon Mackey, was struck in the top of his head and killed while walking with his father shortly before 9 p.m. amid a large crowd prior to the fireworks display over the Swift Creek Reservoir.
January 1, 2013: A 10-year-old girl, Aaliyah Boyer, collapsed after being struck in the back of the head while watching the neighborhood fireworks in Eklton, Maryland. She died two days later of her injuries.
July 4, 2012: A 34-year woman, Michelle Packard, was struck in the head and killed while watching the fireworks with her family. The police believe the shot could have come from a mile away.
January 1, 2010: A four-year-old boy, Marquel Peters, was struck by a bullet and killed inside his church The Church of God of Prophecy in Decatur, GA. It is presumed the bullet may have penetrated the roof of the church around 12:20AM.
December 28, 2005: A 23-year-old U.S. Army private on leave after basic training fired a 9mm pistol into the air in celebration with friends, according to police, and one of the bullets came through a fifth-floor apartment window in the New York City borough of Queens, striking a 28-year-old mother of two in the eye. Her husband found her lifeless body moments later. The shooter had been drinking the night before and turned himself in to police the next morning when he heard the news. He was charged with second-degree manslaughter and weapons-related crimes,[29][30] and was later found guilty and sentenced to four to twelve years in prison.
June 14, 1999: Arizona, A fourteen-year-old girl, Shannon Smith, was struck on the top of her head by a bullet and killed while in the backyard of her home. This incident resulted in Arizona enacting "Shannon's Law" in 2000, that made the discharge of a firearm into the air illegal
December 31, 1994: Amy Silberman, a tourist from Boston, was killed by a falling bullet from celebratory firing while walking on the Riverwalk in the French Quarter of New Orleans, Louisiana. The Police Department there has been striving to educate the public on the danger since then, frequently making arrests for firing into the air.
July 4, 1950: Bernard Doyle was killed in his seat while attending a New York Giants game at the Polo Grounds. The bullet was determined to have been fired by Robert Peebles, a juvenile, from an apartment building some distance away on Coogan's Bluff, presumably in celebration of Independence Day.[/quote]
The page lists dozens more i mean
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51852141][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebratory_gunfire#Notable_incidents]source[/url]
The page lists dozens more i mean[/QUOTE]
lol a lot of these dont even specify if it was coming from above
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51852141][URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebratory_gunfire#Notable_incidents"]source[/URL]
The page lists dozens more i mean[/QUOTE]
And the likelihood of killing and/or seriously injuring someone by actually shooting them is 100%. If shooting a warning shot stops having to shoot at the person, then it was a success.
[QUOTE]7.7.4 . 2 Varn i ngsskottI flera av de studerade fallen där varningsskott avlos-sats har detta inte fått den önskade verkan, att hotet/angreppet upphört eller att en flyende gärningsman stannat. I något fall har varningsskottet istället gjort att en hotfull gärningsman gått till angrepp. Ett annat dilemma med varningsskott är då de skjuts i tätbefolkade miljöer. Problemet är var varningsskot-tet ska riktas. Även ett skott riktat upp i luften är inte totalt riskfritt då kulan kommer ner igen[/QUOTE]
Since people seems interested in the warning shots here's what the police study says about them.
"Warning shots:
In many of the studied cases where warning shots have been fired, the desired effect (stopping of threat or attack, halting a fleeing suspect stopping) was not achieved. In some cases the warning shot has instead triggered a perpetrator to attack. Another dilemma with warning shots is when they're fired in densely populated environments. The problem is, where do you aim the shot. Even a shot aimed up the air is not completely risk free as it will come down again."
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51852141][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebratory_gunfire#Notable_incidents]source[/url]
The page lists dozens more i mean[/QUOTE]
This is a general article for celebratory gunfire and only cites two deaths from falling bullets specifically, only one of which happened in the last [I]century.[/I]
Even if all of these incidents were fatal [I]and[/I] the direct result of falling bullets, then that's 23 cases over the course of about a century and a half.
The chances of being struck by a falling bullet are so astronomically low that using air-fired warning shots during an emergency sounds perfectly fine to me.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51852141][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebratory_gunfire#Notable_incidents]source[/url]
The page lists dozens more i mean[/QUOTE]
I'm not exactly an expert on guns or whatever, but most of those seems to be deaths caused by celebratory shots. In fact none of them seem they could be from warning shots, let alone warning shots fired by trained police officers.
Also according to our laws, a warning shot is only permitted if the situation fulfills the requirements for an actual lethal shot. So it's not a requirement to warn with a shot before shooting a suspect.
[url]https://lagen.nu/1969:84[/url]
[QUOTE=TheRealFierce;51852172]I'm not exactly an expert on guns or whatever, but most of those seems to be deaths caused by celebratory shots. In fact none of them seem they could be from warning shots, let alone warning shots fired by trained police officers.[/QUOTE]
This is not in response to warning shots. This is in response to saying that "falling bullets do nothing"
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51851813]There have been [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Rinkeby_riots"]large scale riots[/URL] in Rinkeby in the past and [URL="http://www.mediaite.com/tv/video-released-of-60-minutes-film-crew-being-attacked-in-sweden-by-migrants/"]smaller cases[/URL] of violence as well.[/QUOTE]
This. Can't stress it enough, especially since they included the Trump tweet at the bottom. Sweden is not a hellhole.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;51852185]This is not in response to warning shots. This is in response to saying that "falling bullets do nothing"[/QUOTE]
Ah I see, my mistake. Although I can definitely see the concern for warning shots, as if you shoot without the intention to kill you might end up killing someone by accident in the end anyway.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;51852076]I'm sure this triggers the fuck out of gun enthusiasts in the US[/QUOTE]
Why is it? People who enjoy guns don't like seeing people hurt or killed. They enjoy the weapon itself and the mechanics of it.
If that is how their local police are trained then that is how their trained. I fail to see how gun enthusiasts are gonna get triggered.
[QUOTE=Paramud;51851846]Is this another "gas the kikes does not objectively mean kill the jews" moment?[/QUOTE]
I could be wrong. Did he call for Russia to hack the DNC?
[URL]https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape[/URL]
[URL]http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/768980/Sweden-cover-up-migrant-rape-violent-crime[/URL]
[URL]http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372[/URL]
it's really worrisome what happens when you open you country to anyone
w/o any serious rules and enforcement of adaptation to local customs, rights, laws ...
same goes with 'paying' luxury lives to non-working and immigrating exiles ...
imho those who shall have access to such extra aid money shall be those seriously working
if you worked / paid taxes / paid healthcare / insurance etc. for 5-10 years then you become full citizen
same goes for pension (yes some states have that but the retirement payment is joke compared to aid in some states)
i still remember some documentary about Palestine students in Sweden, who got citizenship
they were like "we don't give f* about sweden laws, we still have our Palestine citizenship
[QUOTE=sgman91;51852120]Why would this trigger gun enthusiasts?[/QUOTE]
A lot of them follow the same philosophy that Zillamaster does, namely 'don't point a gun at something/someone unless you intend to destroy it/them'. Therefore they do not subscribe to the idea of a warning shot, or shooting for extremities rather than centre of mass.
[QUOTE=TheJoey;51851867]you appear to know more than you seem. i was wondering how you knew police are firing "willy nilly" as opposed to using a controlled, trained practice. knowing anything about swedish police training might explain your supposed insight.
when, in actuality, they might be trained to fire into the ground and is a standard practice, and you might be jumping to conclusions.[/QUOTE]
Firing into the ground definitely isn't standard practice. Bullets ricochet.
That being said it's quite possible by "warning shots" they meant tear gas or something.
[QUOTE=Cuon Alpinus;51852126]The terminal velocity of a bullet is far, far lower than when it flies out the barrel. A falling bullet will most likely bruise you at worst if you're even astronomally unlucky enough to get hit by it. While more massive bullets have a small chance to inflict serious damage, a standard round like a 9mm will rarely be able to achieve enough velocity to so much as break the skin.[/QUOTE]
This is not true when dealing with rifling. Rifled shots spin, making them stable, which means they don't tumble, which means they retain their aerodynamics. They go up and down in an arc and can be moving at substantial portions of their original velocity after traveling several miles. They only tumble when fired more or less straight into the air because that's the only way for them to lose enough velocity (both lateral and rotational) to begin tumbling.
There's been several cases in the US of people firing a shot into the air and killing someone on the other side of town.
Note that I'm not saying the police were shooting into the air. I'm sure the police were fairly reasonable in how their shots were fired. I'm just illustrating why the quoted while technically correct in limited circumstances, is generally misleading.
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