[QUOTE=Lambeth;33296964]So it's gonna go the way of vinyl?[/QUOTE]
Yep, soon hipsters will pay enormous amounts of money to buy 35mm film and equipment to play in their basements.
This is actually a good thing for independent film makers, and people that lack big budgets for distributions.
In the UK we've been spending years adopting something called the Digital Screen Network, where all our cinemas are aiming to make the switchover from celluloid to digital, one of the main reasons being it is now economically easier to distribute a film without a big budget. Most smaller films only have one, two or three copies of their films being circulated around cinemas just because celluloid is so fucking expensive (not sure about the actual figures, but it's never a lot) while having the benefits of a bigger distributor means they can fork out enough for a ton of copies for national distribution.
The Digital screen network means films can be given out digitally, either via a network or via hard copies such as Disks. This also means that they're looking at giving cinemas quotas of foreign and independent film to show, as there's no longer any reason for them not to do so.
[b]tl;dr - Now cheaper to give out films, cinemas now get to show more than just big blockbusters all the time.[/b]
[QUOTE=ketchup v2;33295652]I can do you one better. Took these when I was learning the projectors to study em when I wasn't at work so I could get it down quick. Click for larger images.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/0vydC.jpg[/img_thumb]
Inside of the projector, you 'thread' the film through there before the start of every showing.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/birco.jpg[/img_thumb]
This is the 'platter', it has 3 levels. The whole film is held on this at once and is fed through to the projector then out of the projector and back on the platter.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/UvSbR.jpg[/img_thumb]
Another part of the platter where the film is threaded through. You can see two of the levels there.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/NL68G.jpg[/img_thumb]
Shot of the projector with the film threaded through.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/2aWVa.jpg[/img_thumb]
Back panel of the projector, never really got around to using it because it's more for maintenance.
Other than that there isn't much else to see besides making the movies. They come in big grey heavy (50lbs) boxes and need to be put together in conjunction with a special table and the platters. Takes about an hour to put one together. Any specific questions just ask.[/QUOTE]
I wish I still did projectionist stuff.
[QUOTE=Edthefirst;33296089]Less range of color depth and a flatter less sharp image.
There is a significant difference in a 35mm projection to a digital one.[/QUOTE]
The average consumer won't care or notice the difference
This saddens me, I used to work at a cinema and we had some of the last film projectors in Scotland. We had 9 screens and only 1 was digital (however, CoD 4 on a cinema screen is pretty epic)
I've since left, but my mate who worked as a projectionist there for 9 years got "let go" because the digital projectors only need one person to operate them.
Good, these things can't improve in quality until there's real demand for them to do so. I for one look forward to film not covered in artifacts.
[quote]Wanna know why movies are called flicks? It's because of the flickering light that's emitted from film projectors.[/quote]
One of those things I never thought about until now.
[QUOTE=ketchup v2;33295652]I can do you one better. Took these when I was learning the projectors to study em when I wasn't at work so I could get it down quick. Click for larger images.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/0vydC.jpg[/img_thumb]
Inside of the projector, you 'thread' the film through there before the start of every showing.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/birco.jpg[/img_thumb]
This is the 'platter', it has 3 levels. The whole film is held on this at once and is fed through to the projector then out of the projector and back on the platter.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/UvSbR.jpg[/img_thumb]
Another part of the platter where the film is threaded through. You can see two of the levels there.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/NL68G.jpg[/img_thumb]
Shot of the projector with the film threaded through.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/2aWVa.jpg[/img_thumb]
Back panel of the projector, never really got around to using it because it's more for maintenance.
Other than that there isn't much else to see besides making the movies. They come in big grey heavy (50lbs) boxes and need to be put together in conjunction with a special table and the platters. Takes about an hour to put one together. Any specific questions just ask.[/QUOTE]
What's the deal with the "cue mark"? I always notice them when they appear, and the very brief flicker in the image after the second one.
[QUOTE=Contag;33296133]How does that occur, considering most movies have at least some parts transposed into a digital format? Or does it occur with those segments as well?[/QUOTE]
It's two-fold. If the movie is actually filmed with a 35mm camera and printed straight to film then it will obviously look better on the film projection, but interestingly enough even a digital film printed on 35mm will look better than its digital projection counterpart. The thing is that film formats can store so much more information since it's analogue, so when you do a transfer to film it looks the most like what was produced.
The most recent example I can think of is Drive. My local art house showed a 35mm print of the movie and it was absolutely spectacular. My film professor showed us the comparisons the next day. He actually had about 30 seconds of the movie on a reel and showed both the digital and the film one side-by-side. There was a significant difference in color and sharpness. Not enough that it would ruin the movie, but enough that it was easy to tell the difference.
[editline]16th November 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;33297699]The average consumer won't care or notice the difference[/QUOTE]
The fact of the matter is that there is still a difference. It doesn't matter if the consumer will notice or care, film format is still better. Now, will a digital projection stop me from watching the movie? Hell no, but if given the choice I would certainly go to a theater or screen showing a 35mm print.
[QUOTE=Edthefirst;33299942]The fact of the matter is that there is still a difference. It doesn't matter if the consumer will notice or care, film format is still better. Now, will a digital projection stop me from watching the movie? Hell no, but if given the choice I would certainly go to a theater or screen showing a 35mm print.[/QUOTE]
But it does matter. As the consumer doesn't care or won't notice the difference, the studios are free to use digital techniques which are probably easier to work with. Only tiny minority cares whether the film was shot on film or on a hard drive.
now because of lower production costs, we can expect more shit like marma duke and beverly hills chihuahua... [I]NOOOOOOOOOOOOO[/I]
[QUOTE=The Decoy;33300743]now because of lower production costs, we can expect more shit like marma duke and beverly hills chihuahua... [I]NOOOOOOOOOOOOO[/I][/QUOTE]
Or more indie movies getting big screenings
[QUOTE=The Decoy;33300743]now because of lower production costs, we can expect more shit like marma duke and beverly hills chihuahua... [I]NOOOOOOOOOOOOO[/I][/QUOTE]
With lowered prices smaller producers can distribute their films more easily.
People complain about films that use a tired old format with cliches and all, but that's because the bourgeoisie large film producers are able to do so as it makes them pots of money. Independent film makers who make more original films find it harder to distribute their films when celluloid costs a lot.
And if celluloid is kept around, it only encourages people to use the internet or television instead of the cinema. The cinema will decline if it sticks to tradition.
Jesus Christ the number of projectionists in this thread.
Exactly how Vinyl Records will never die, neither will projection cinemas. Maybe for the mainstream because that's expected.
Screens get bigger, things become more crisp. Hopefully more nostalgia cinemas are made.
There is a real classy theatre near to me. Has a curtain over the screen as you walk in with drapes hanging from the wall and some classy gentlemen music in the background. Big comfortable seats and an interlude in which you can buy ice cream. I doubt they will ever change they have been like that since my dad was a kid.
They don't have intermissions for long movies neither, I mean... some people think they can handle a 3/4 hour movie in one sitting, but that's not the point. Really you need a break otherwise your focus on a big screen will deteriorate. Not healthy for the eyes.
[QUOTE=ketchup v2;33295652]Other than that there isn't much else to see besides making the movies. They come in big grey heavy (50lbs) boxes and need to be put together in conjunction with a special table and the platters. Takes about an hour to put one together. Any specific questions just ask.[/QUOTE]
did anyone ever say to you 'in the industry, we call them cigarette burns' and point upward for some reason?
[img]http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l9lgi2uKMN1qzamioo1_500.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Zezibesh;33300089]But it does matter. As the consumer doesn't care or won't notice the difference, the studios are free to use digital techniques which are probably easier to work with. Only tiny minority cares whether the film was shot on film or on a hard drive.[/QUOTE]
no no no, my argument is that the film format is better for image quality
I'm not arguing that producers should stick to film. It's absolutely reasonable that people want to move to digital. It's easy and cheap.
I don't see a problem with this. Just because you like 35mm doesn't mean it is the best.
Speaking of Digital projection, I was at the movie theater watching Day Breakers. We arrived early, before they even put the previews on so it was showing the desktop and the film control program. The computer had a Company of Heroes and Steam shortcut on the desktop. That'd be fucking fun to play games on those projectors.
Anyways, what did the black dots in the corner mean on 35mm films? Next spindle?
[QUOTE=GodKing;33298234]What's the deal with the "cue mark"? I always notice them when they appear, and the very brief flicker in the image after the second one.[/QUOTE]
What it is is the end of the current reel, and the start of the next. As was mentioned, movies come in multiple reels which are spliced together. The first cue mark (cue dots as our theatre calls them) signify the ending of a reel, and the second one (with the flicker) is where the reels are spliced and it changes reels (you can tell because of it changing frame, like to another scene/setting). We have to mark the times that they appear, so we know that there are the correct amount of reels in a print, as well as in the proper order. In addition, it helps to determine if some part of the print was cut, because the final movie time when the print is "screened" for errors [i]should[/i] match the movie run-time sent to us by the film company.
[QUOTE=Second-gear-of-mgear;33303261]The computer had a Company of Heroes and Steam shortcut on the desktop. That'd be fucking fun to play games on those projectors.[/QUOTE]
We used to hook up my 360 to the digital projectors and play Halo and other assorted games. It's an absolutely amazing experience, I wish everybody was allowed to do it. I would've tried Company of Heroes but the projectors were running Unix and their inputs besides VGA were monitored.
[QUOTE=Shining_Sabe;33304219]We used to hook up my 360 to the digital projectors and play Halo and other assorted games. It's an absolutely amazing experience, I wish everybody was allowed to do it. I would've tried Company of Heroes but the projectors were running Unix and their inputs besides VGA were monitored.[/QUOTE]
Wait, what do you mean by monitored?
[QUOTE=Second-gear-of-mgear;33303261]I don't see a problem with this. Just because you like 35mm doesn't mean it is the best.
Speaking of Digital projection, I was at the movie theater watching Day Breakers. We arrived early, before they even put the previews on so it was showing the desktop and the film control program. The computer had a Company of Heroes and Steam shortcut on the desktop. That'd be fucking fun to play games on those projectors.
Anyways, what did the black dots in the corner mean on 35mm films? Next spindle?[/QUOTE]
There really isn't a problem other then the obvious fact that it takes less people to run the projectors now, so less jobs but only marginally.
Other then that minor thing i'm only saddened by it because its the dying of a long running, and old format that i personally prefer over digital. I don't have any problem at all with new digital projectors other than the fact that i might now never get moved up to it.
[editline]16th November 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=wewt!;33300866]Or more indie movies getting big screenings[/QUOTE]
This is also very true and i look forward to this. Thanks to me working in one of the major theatres in my area, we get indie films all the time and they're all usually BETTER then large scale production company's movies.
[QUOTE=Demache;33306724]Wait, what do you mean by monitored?[/QUOTE]
It tells the company running the projectors that something is being run through those inputs, and they can yell at our home office if they notice it's not a scheduled screening.
Digital projection is the future, most filmmakers just don't know how to use it yet. See David Lynch's "INLAND EMPIRE" for a brilliant use of digital.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKk2eFV5cqA[/media]
Here's a STRONG SuperHighlight II console running before they ripped them out in march and put in all digital:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3qtzIKkZRg[/media]
When they went digital, they fired all of the projectionists, except one old bastard that had been there 20 years. The platter system you see in the above video is now in my garage, along with a 1970s era STRONG LUME-X in nearly working condition. I have the individual parts working, but haven't striked the lamp yet due to wiring woes.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn-V67A-0cY[/media]
It was a real adventure getting that platter system apart and down two flights of stairs.
[QUOTE=Prez;33303446]What it is is the end of the current reel, and the start of the next. As was mentioned, movies come in multiple reels which are spliced together. The first cue mark (cue dots as our theatre calls them) signify the ending of a reel, and the second one (with the flicker) is where the reels are spliced and it changes reels (you can tell because of it changing frame, like to another scene/setting). We have to mark the times that they appear, so we know that there are the correct amount of reels in a print, as well as in the proper order. In addition, it helps to determine if some part of the print was cut, because the final movie time when the print is "screened" for errors [i]should[/i] match the movie run-time sent to us by the film company.[/QUOTE]
That's not what cue marks are for. They're a legacy of older carbon arc projectors and early xenon projectors that didn't have platter systems. You basically had two projectors side by side aimed at the same screen, with one reel loaded on each projector in sequential order.
When a cue mark came up, the projectionist would strike the lamp on the alternate projector and get the film moving at the right time and open the dowser to start showing the second reel, while at the same time closing the dowser on the first projector at the end of that reel. The first reel is then rewound, removed and the 3rd reel of the movie is loaded in to be ready for the next switch. This process is repeated for as many reels as there are for the movie.
Film reels are clearly labelled on the film stock when they come from the distributor as to which reel they are. if the projectionist isn't an idiot when breaking down the movie, the reels will retain the same labelling after the splices are broken.
There are also other marks on the film used for theft detection (people camming movies.) One of the most complicated protection schemes involves reordering parts of the movie sequence. Different film prints will play out certain sequences of the movie at different times, and even omit or add different scenes in the movie, which are minor enough to where the audience doesn't notice unless they watch the film several times in several different theaters.
As a projectionist, did you ever get to see movies before then came out?
All the time. Sometimes we got to watch the film a week before its release date. And many times I got to have private screenings for myself.
This is a good thing
I hate all those annoying marks you see all over the screen with 35mm
We have a screen near us with 35mm and another with digital, digital looks much more crisp and without the film marks. I really don't see why anyone is sad about this, you're about to get much crisper pictures
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