Obama to exempt nearly 5 million illegal immigrants from deportation - Polidicks

[QUOTE=xthenarwhalx;46538259]I honestly don't know if you realized that this bill is mostly for ILLEGAL immigrants. If your family entered the legal way, sure, stay, go right ahead, but seriously, you're freaking the fuck out for nothing.[/QUOTE] I'm not talking about the bill, I'm talking about some xenophobic fuck who says he hated Immigrants, and therefore just about half the people I know

I am an immigrant myself (legal though), and some of you people are way out of touch Its stupidly hard to get the papers needed to come here legally. It can take months to have everything filled in, and thats if you are lucky. And to you folks who just want to deport all the immigrants "to their homeland", remember that many dont even have a home to return to

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[QUOTE=Xystus234;46538284]Yeah. They can leave.[/QUOTE] No wonder you've been at community college for 5 years you worthless fucking neckbeard [highlight](User was banned for this post (""you worthless fucking neckebeard" is not a nice thing to say." - Swebonny))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=proboardslol;46538330]No wonder you've been at community college for 5 years you fucking neckbeard[/QUOTE] Its alright to be upset, but please, calm down. Take a break for a second and do something else

[QUOTE=proboardslol;46538249]you ARE a stranger to that person. Not everybody has to think the same shit as you. If I wear a pro-obama or pro-romney t-shirt and someone makes some stupid comment I'm not gonna hate them for it, and I'm not gonna blame their upbringing; they've got a different belief than me. [i]so what?[/i] I doubt they [i]hate[/i] me and I know that I don't hate them. Why is hate necessary because someone thinks differently? It's a problem. [/quote] [quote] The point of immigration is to give a person an opportunity to make a better life for themselves, not make a better life for me. It would be hypocritical to expect anything else because we don't expect anything else from natural born citizens. [/quote] And this is where we disagree, we aren't a charity, we are a country and the needs of our citizens come before the needs of others. If a natural-born citizen goes on welfare that is our problem because this is his home. The flip side to this is someone who comes here and requires education and healthcare before they become a person who is capable of adding back to the society they are indebted to. The "better life" aspect is a byproduct of repaying the country and people that so gracefully let you in. [quote] Who's talking about crime? I'm just talking about perfectly legal, hard working Americans who just want a better life for themselves or their family. These people believe different things or speak different languages. Guess what, I took the time to try to learn Korean because I want to experience things other than what I've experienced for 19 years. If the cashier speaks with an accent, I just take a little bit of extra effort to understand them and make sure they understand me [/quote] The anecdote was about an indian salesman committing a crime, don't you remember? [quote] if you were a jew, or married to one, and I said "I fucking hate jews, they're brought up in a culture where the try to rip people off", you'd be pretty fucking pissed. Every girl I've dated has been an immigrant. Most of my friends are immigrants. My grandmother on my mom's side is an immigrant. At some point, we were all immigrants, so it's hard not to take it personally when someone insults everybody you know and love just because of some dumbass assumption he's made about them because he had one bad experience and decided that everybody is bad because of that.[/QUOTE] I have seen you use your girlfriends as a pro-immigration argument. Try to argue facts and not about your experiences. I can debate without getting hurt feelings and often times I will debate things against how i truly believe for the sake of discourse so I ask that you do this too.

did everyone miss the part where all this does is stop deportations for the illegal immigrants that are already here, save for certain exceptions? there is no amnesty, there is no citizenship expansion; it's ending deportations for illegals who have [I]already been living here for an extended period of time[/I] at a time when net immigration into the US from mexico is at or around zero. new illegal immigrants will face the same measures as before. [QUOTE=Doneeh;46537769]Yeah, they have shit lives they're trying to escape. Why exactly is that the U.S.'s problem?[/QUOTE] you're misunderstanding the post some don't go through legal means because they are running for their lives that was the point

I'm for this. Deporting people who already live here is costly and could negatively affect businesses, especially agriculture, not to mention the human element of splitting up families. Having illegals become documented and even bringing their families over would help the economy, as that money is no longer being sent to another country, it's being spent here, either on taxes or goods. However, this is definitely a band-aid and definitely not a long term solution. Ideally this should have been done at the same time immigration reform passed as a way of grandfathering in current illegals. People suggest having open borders, but we definitely shouldn't do that. We have borders for a reason: we don't want illegal activity, smuggling or criminals crossing over from either country willy nilly, we can't have a huge influx of people come in at once and overpopulate towns, and we don't want people who are sick bringing serious illnesses over. Borders help control the amount of people we have in the country and are essential. Just because open borders might work over in European countries doesn't mean it'd work here. We are having a job crisis, but I don't think illegals from South America are stealing the majority of jobs. With automation, shipping jobs overseas, ruthless bottom line goals from big corporations cutting jobs just to keep a specific profit ratio, an abundance of college graduates with degrees in fields that are oversaturated in the job market, lack of factory jobs, and probably countless of other factors there's more to play than just "gosh darn illegals takin' muh jobs." I have no clue how to fix immigration related issues. All I know is that it takes a hell of a long time for people who aren't criminals, aren't sick and can afford to come here to get access. I can see how some people wouldn't want easier immigration, with the idea that it could just make it so an influx of unemployed people could come in and still not find work, which would mean more homelessness, poverty and potentially crime due to those issues. Especially problematic considering American citizens are having trouble finding work that isn't temp work or far below paygrade so even more unemployed people in the country on top of that would be harmful. However putting off imigration reform is just going to make it worse.

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[QUOTE=Xystus234;46538377]First of all, when did I say I was at shitty ass NOVA for 5 years. I've been here for the past [B]two[/B]. Second, we're going to have serious problems if we see each other in person again. Fuck off.[/QUOTE] you told me. You've been there since 2009. what kind of problems?

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[QUOTE=Xystus234;46538397]Do you really want to know?[/QUOTE] I'd prefer it if you saw me to just ignore me. That's what I'll do. That's the mature thing to do when you don't like someone.

Can you guys seriously fuck off, who cares about how long you went to college?

[QUOTE=proboardslol;46538330]No wonder you've been at community college for 5 years you worthless fucking neckbeard[/QUOTE] Honestly I was pretty much with you until this. I totally understand how frustratingly ignorant it is when people are just so actively ignorant but usually I try to imagine living their life instead and then realize that they've already gotten what they deserve. More on topic: I am an immigrant. I moved here from Ukraine with my mom when I was 6. That was in early 2001. In December of 2014, I finally am scheduled for an interview to take the citizenship test. It has been 13 fucking years, while my mom has been here for 15 and got hers a year ago. Most people who talk to me assume I've lived here my entire life. I'm studying Computer Science at a major University, and currently actually working at a job in my major, and I think I've contributed more to this country than Xystus234 has, with his uh, beer purchasing for people in bars or whatever. That's not even counting the fact that the citizenship process, is fucking expensive, and costs something like $10,000 in legal fees alone. You need to hire a lawyer and shit, but this explains it better than I can. [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/fM9icmG.jpg[/thumb] Skilled -> College Degree -> Had a job offer -> Passed Employer's BS (after getting the work visa twice) -> Wait 10 years -> Finally become a citizen. Oh and my mom was a doctor in Ukraine. This is not a sane immigration process and unless you litterally think that the bar for getting into the USA should be DOCTOR, then I really suggest you go and talk to the average american.

It's honestly a pretty fair idea I think. People who have legal children here can stay for a while legally and get put into the process for citizenship, people who have been here for 5 or more years who basically have a life here can stay for a while and also be put into the process and anyone who is a felon is deported. It keeps out those who we don't want, and keeps those that already are part of society. What people forget is that just because someone is illegal doesn't mean they get tens of thousands of federal benefits or pay no taxes. Those people consume, they pay sales tax, their consumption creates demand, and just possible profits in some markets and jobs can be created to supply that demand. I don't see it as a black and white drain on the economy. It would be ideal if everything were in the clear, but that's the point of this, to take care of the way things are right now and to bring people out of hiding.

[QUOTE=Brt5470;46538438]It's honestly a pretty fair idea I think. People who have legal children here can stay for a while legally and get put into the process for citizenship, people who have been here for 5 or more years who basically have a life here can stay for a while and also be put into the process and anyone who is a felon is deported. It keeps out those who we don't want, and keeps those that already are part of society. What people forget is that just because someone is illegal doesn't mean they get tens of thousands of federal benefits or pay no taxes. [b]Those people consume, they pay sales tax, their consumption creates demand, and just possible profits in some markets and jobs can be created to supply that demand. I don't see it as a black and white drain on the economy. It would be ideal if everything were in the clear, but that's the point of this, to take care of the way things are right now and to bring people out of hiding.[/b][/QUOTE] This is exactly what people miss, because it takes more than one logical leap.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;46536864][URL="http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30136245"]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30136245[/URL][/QUOTE] If it means that they will start paying taxes, I'm all in.

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[QUOTE=Kybalt;46538422]Honestly I was pretty much with you until this. I totally understand how frustratingly ignorant it is when people are just so actively ignorant but usually I try to imagine living their life instead and then realize that they've already gotten what they deserve. More on topic: I am an immigrant. I moved here from Ukraine with my mom when I was 6. That was in early 2001. In December of 2014, I finally am scheduled for an interview to take the citizenship test. It has been 13 fucking years, while my mom has been here for 15 and got hers a year ago. Most people who talk to me assume I've lived here my entire life. I'm studying Computer Science at a major University, and currently actually working at a job in my major, and I think I've contributed more to this country than Xystus234 has, with his uh, beer purchasing for people in bars or whatever. That's not even counting the fact that the citizenship process, is fucking expensive, and costs something like $10,000 in legal fees alone. You need to hire a lawyer and shit, but this explains it better than I can. [thumb]http://i.imgur.com/fM9icmG.jpg[/thumb] Skilled -> College Degree -> Had a job offer -> Passed Employer's BS (after getting the work visa twice) -> Wait 10 years -> Finally become a citizen. Oh and my mom was a doctor in Ukraine. This is not a sane immigration process and unless you litterally think that the bar for getting into the USA should be DOCTOR, then I really suggest you go and talk to the average american.[/QUOTE] Do you just expect us to take in everyone all at once? In the 13 years your family waited to become citizens, millions of other people became citizens too. [editline]20th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Kybalt;46538461]This is exactly what people miss, because it takes more than one logical leap.[/QUOTE] But to expand on what he was saying they also take a lot from the economy and specifically from healthcare. It is not uncommon for illegal migrants to take their children to ERs costing hospitals massive amounts of money annually that come out of [u]my[/u] pocket.

[QUOTE=Xystus234;46538489]So since my major is computer science, that must mean you're literally taking a job I could work at. Huh. Thanks for proving my point.[/QUOTE] You are absolutely unbelievable.

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[QUOTE=Xystus234;46538489]So since my major is computer science, that must mean you're literally taking a job I could work at. Huh. Thanks for proving my point.[/QUOTE] Yeah, obviously, because the demand for software developers is clearly at a historically low point and we have to fight for the scraps. Anyway, I don't think I'd want to take a job that [I]you[/I] could work at, so you don't have to worry about that. [editline]20th November 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=toaster468;46538490]Do you just expect us to take in everyone all at once? In the 13 years your family waited to become citizens, millions of other people became citizens too. [editline]20th November 2014[/editline] But to expand on what he was saying they also take a lot from the economy and specifically from healthcare. [b]It is not uncommon for illegal migrants to take their children to ERs costing hospitals massive amounts of money annually that come out of [u]my[/u] pocket.[/b][/QUOTE] See this is funny to me, because up until like a few years ago, that statement applied to a very significant portion of the population because healthcare wasn't mandatory and you could be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. Honestly I think that America should accept more citizens from forward thinking countries so that the country doesn't fall apart. Personally? I'm going to try living in Germany once I get a degree, cause this ship is sinking. As for whether to accept everyone at once? No. That's obviously an extreme measure and you're setting up a strawman argument. First, in the context of Obama's decision, the decision was not "let 5 million illegal immigrants stay here and get citizenship for free after breaking the law" vs "deport them all for stealing our jobs". It was between "there are 5 million illegal immigrants here that we cannot keep track of because they're undocumented" and "we spend shit tons of money finding and deporting immigrants while more keep coming in"

[QUOTE=Xystus234;46538489]So since my major is computer science, that must mean you're literally taking a job I could work at. Huh. Thanks for proving my point.[/QUOTE] Ain't that a shame. Don't worry, I'm majoring in Computer Science too, that way you can feel like your job was filled by a native born American. I mean, it's not like an immigrant with the same qualifications would do as good a job, right? [sp]Oh wait, they would[/sp]

[QUOTE=helpiminabox;46538571]Ain't that a shame. Don't worry, I'm majoring in Computer Science too, that way you can feel like your job was filled by a native born American. I mean, it's not like an immigrant with the same qualifications would do as good a job, right? [sp]Oh wait, they would[/sp][/QUOTE] I honestly hadn't even thought that he thought he was better qualified or anything. I figured he just felt he had some kind of divine right to not have to compete with foreigners for whatever ludicrous reason.

[QUOTE=Xystus234;46538489]So since my major is computer science, that must mean you're literally taking a job I could work at. Huh. Thanks for proving my point.[/QUOTE] Oh shut up already, you xenophobic fool.

[QUOTE=kaine123;46537737]I don't think most Americans realize how fucking difficult it is to gain American citizenship. Also the idea of hating immigrants in [B]the fucking United States of America[/B] is a laughable concept to me.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between immigrants [I]back then[/I] and immigrants today. There wasn't free government handouts right when you got here. You either thrived or died.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;46538541] See this is funny to me, because up until like a few years ago, that statement applied to a very significant portion of the population because healthcare wasn't mandatory and you could be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions. [/QUOTE] If you are referring to the ACA, then you should know that healthcare is not mandatory for illegal migrants, only for their children. I am not sure how that last part relates to immigration. [quote]Honestly I think that America should accept more citizens from forward thinking countries so that the country doesn't fall apart. [/quote] We already do this, what is your point exactly? [quote] As for whether to accept everyone at once? No. That's obviously an extreme measure and you're setting up a strawman argument. First, in the context of Obama's decision, the decision was not "let 5 million illegal immigrants stay here and get citizenship for free after breaking the law" vs "deport them all for stealing our jobs". It was between "there are 5 million illegal immigrants here that we cannot keep track of because they're undocumented" and "we spend shit tons of money finding and deporting immigrants while more keep coming in"[/QUOTE] I am not setting you up for a strawman. In fact that isn't even what a strawman is.

[QUOTE=X12321;46538635]There's a difference between immigrants [I]back then[/I] and immigrants today. There wasn't free government handouts right when you got here. You either thrived or died.[/QUOTE] Please tell me where these handouts are so I can go get some? Thanks.

This is my last post in SH ever so let me just say this: This has gotten way off topic, and I'm done being attacked personally. I apologize for offending anyone. My opinions are my opinions, and I figured that I could say whatever the hell I wanted. Serious warning to all: For anyone who views this, remember that there's real world consequences for saying whatever you want on the internet. Remember that before you post.

[QUOTE=Kybalt;46538647]Please tell me where these handouts are so I can go get some? Thanks.[/QUOTE] Yea, I want handouts.