[QUOTE=Aspen;42591124]governments work in strange ways
you probably don't want to know the secrets of our government or any other government for that matter. you're probably better off not knowing
except canada fuck [b]Canada[/b][/QUOTE]
:(
This El Presidente person is pretty attractive.
[QUOTE=Tretot;42592379]what the hell guys
now Im so angry that I feel like living illegaly in USA without paying taxes[/QUOTE]
That's totally [b]not[/b] a literal bandwagon in your country. :v:
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42592652]
It is a bad thing, and this information is getting out because a defector ran off with a shitload of state secrets.[/QUOTE]
He's not really a "defector" because he didn't run with this information to any specific nation, for that nation.
If anything, he's a defector to liberty.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42595450]He's not really a "defector" because he didn't run with this information to any specific nation, for that nation.
If anything, he's a defector to liberty.[/QUOTE]That is the most hilariously awful line ever. That's like out of a bad 80s action movie, like something out of a blood dragon sequel. "Rex Power Colt isn't just defecting- he's defecting to liberty!" Lets ignore that he went from the U.S. to China and then Russia where he still is, two places that undeniably have far worse records with human rights and "liberty". Defecting does not actually require having a specific or single target one wants to go to. There are actually quite a few protections for whistleblowers, a fair number of laws and acts designed to protect them. And the thing is that we know they work. Even before any of these protections were in place, whistleblowers still received protection. And releasing information like this has nothing to do with trying to protect the rights of U.S. citizens, its literally just designed to compromise U.S. intelligence efforts. That's not what whistleblowers do.
Little does anyone realize that Snowden's entire ploy is a government-backed attempt to mirror the same done by The Boss in Snake Eater.
You're all acting as if the Mexican military is gonna invade
Yes, I know, doing this to our neighbors is beyond fucked
[QUOTE=Irespawnoften;42592640]The NSA has to be the worst covert government agency in history.
Seriously, they can't hide fuckin' anything they do.
Not that that's a bad thing, mind you.[/QUOTE]
Um, you do realize that the stuff they ARE doing right, we dont know about? Unless you have a manifest of every single covert operation going on in the NSA you can't say that.
[QUOTE=Aspen;42591124]governments work in strange ways
you probably don't want to know the secrets of our government or any other government for that matter. you're probably better off not knowing
except canada fuck canada[/QUOTE]
im sorry
[QUOTE=Bazsil;42599184]Um, you do realize that the stuff they ARE doing right, we dont know about? Unless you have a manifest of every single covert operation going on in the NSA you can't say that.[/QUOTE]
Was making a joke, cool your tits.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42595921]That is the most hilariously awful line ever. That's like out of a bad 80s action movie, like something out of a blood dragon sequel. "Rex Power Colt isn't just defecting- he's defecting to liberty!" Lets ignore that he went from the U.S. to China and then Russia where he still is, two places that undeniably have far worse records with human rights and "liberty". Defecting does not actually require having a specific or single target one wants to go to. There are actually quite a few protections for whistleblowers, a fair number of laws and acts designed to protect them. And the thing is that we know they work. Even before any of these protections were in place, whistleblowers still received protection. And releasing information like this has nothing to do with trying to protect the rights of U.S. citizens, its literally just designed to compromise U.S. intelligence efforts. That's not what whistleblowers do.[/QUOTE]
He defected to the places he did to avoid being sent back to the US, where he would
undeniably face punishment for revealing the information he did. The only things he has revealed are cases where the US has acted way, way out of line. If nobody reveals this kind of stuff is happening, it's just going to keep on happening. The NSA can't keep being under the impression that they're going to get away with this kind of stuff.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42592762]I think gaining access to a foreign leaders personal communications is a pretty impressive achievement, given how electronic intelligence is basically their entire purpose.[/QUOTE]
Well US gov. cant simply disrespect other govs and do god knows what and get away with that. There are going to be negative repercussions or political and economical retaliations.
[QUOTE=Beerminator;42610383]Well US gov. cant simply disrespect other govs and do god knows what and get away with that. There are going to be negative repercussions or political and economical retaliations.[/QUOTE]They do the exact same thing whenever possible. Like, legit, that's the reason the entire field exists. They spy on everyone, friend and foe. Ideally, sure, no one would spy on anyone but that's a hilariously impossible expectation.
[editline]22nd October 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=blehblehbleh;42610325]He defected to the places he did to avoid being sent back to the US, where he would
undeniably face punishment for revealing the information he did. The only things he has revealed are cases where the US has acted way, way out of line. If nobody reveals this kind of stuff is happening, it's just going to keep on happening. The NSA can't keep being under the impression that they're going to get away with this kind of stuff.[/QUOTE]He wouldn't have had to defect if he had gone through the preexisting channels designed for this specific purpose. And as I said, we know they work, they've been put to the test before worked and there are more protection now than in the past. He had no necessity to flee the country to reveal this information.
And something like this isn't out of line, its basically the exact expectation of any intelligence agency in the world.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42610790]He wouldn't have had to defect if he had gone through the preexisting channels designed for this specific purpose. And as I said, we know they work, they've been put to the test before worked and there are more protection now than in the past. He had no necessity to flee the country to reveal this information.
And something like this isn't out of line, its basically the exact expectation of any intelligence agency in the world.[/QUOTE]
Are you telling me Snowden would not currently be facing criminal charges had he stayed in the US?
And yes, it is out of line. [I]Hacking into the personal email account of the President of an allied country is out of line.[/I] If Mexico was okay with the US having access to that kind of information, they would have given it to them. Jeez, if that isn't crossing the line, what is crossing the line to you?
[QUOTE=blehblehbleh;42611542]Are you telling me Snowden would not currently be facing criminal charges had he stayed in the US?[/QUOTE]Yeah, because we actually have protections for whistleblowers despite whatever you may have convinced yourself of.
[quote]And yes, it is out of line. [I]Hacking into the personal email account of the President of an allied country is out of line.[/I] If Mexico was okay with the US having access to that kind of information, they would have given it to them. Jeez, if that isn't crossing the line, what is crossing the line to you?[/QUOTE]That's the entire point of the intelligence field. They do it to us, we do it to them. Everyone spies on each other because its a necessity to stay informed. You think we tell the UK everything, even if it may seem pertinent for us to know? You think they tell us everything? That's so naively ridiculous.
It's the prisoner's dilemma at work. Ideally, no one would spy on each other and we'd all get along fine. But that is so naive and impossible, its not even a consideration. We could refrain from spying on them and hope they won't spy on us, but that's dangerous naive and leaves us at a serious disadvantage, same as it would anyone.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42610790]He wouldn't have had to defect if he had gone through the preexisting channels designed for this specific purpose. And as I said, we know they work, they've been put to the test before worked and there are more protection now than in the past. He had no necessity to flee the country to reveal this information.[/QUOTE]
Bullshit, with the info he took, and the agency he took it from, he would have been branded an enemy of the state and crucified in front of the entire nation. He would not have been safe here and the US response to his actions confirms it.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42611948]Yeah, because we actually have protections for whistleblowers despite whatever you may have convinced yourself of.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to believe that, but the US's immediate reaction wasn't to protect him, it was to protect themselves. Instead of the NSA getting in trouble, the Government defended them all the way.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42612107]Bullshit, with the info he took, and the agency he took it from, he would have been branded an enemy of the state and crucified in front of the entire nation. He would not have been safe here and the US response to his actions confirms it.
I'd like to believe that, but the US's immediate reaction wasn't to protect him, it was to protect themselves. Instead of the NSA getting in trouble, the Government defended them all the way.[/QUOTE]Only because he took everything and ran to a foreign power that, while we're hardly enemies with, we aren't exactly best friends with, a nation that regularly tries to hack in to our shit too. It doesn't matter what you believe because you'll be wrong. There are several laws and acts designed for revealing the exact kind of shit the NSA was doing. If you borrowed your friend's laptop and lawnmower, I'd expect him to be pretty pissed off at you if a few days later he caught you at the neighborhood shady pawnshop with them.
I don't think there's a way in hell they would stop hacking foreign communications, however they probably won't get caught again
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;42612168]Only because he took everything and ran to a foreign power that, while we're hardly enemies with, we aren't exactly best friends with, a nation that regularly tries to hack in to our shit too. It doesn't matter what you believe because you'll be wrong. There are several laws and acts designed for revealing the exact kind of shit the NSA was doing. If you borrowed your friend's laptop and lawnmower, I'd expect him to be pretty pissed off at you if a few days later he caught you at the neighborhood shady pawnshop with them.[/QUOTE]
Except he isn't doing that, he's not selling the information. He only ran to Russia because he knew they wouldn't turn him over. If he went to say, Canada, or France, or Norway, or anywhere with half-decent US relations, he'd be turned over in a heartbeat and end up in the dark corner of a federal supermax while enough charges are piled against him to keep him locked away for life.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;42612642]Except he isn't doing that, he's not selling the information. He only ran to Russia because he knew they wouldn't turn him over. If he went to say, Canada, or France, or Norway, or anywhere with half-decent US relations, he'd be turned over in a heartbeat and end up in the dark corner of a federal supermax while enough charges are piled against him to keep him locked away for life.[/QUOTE]We really can't say whether he is or not. You think he'll admit to selling state secrets? If you think they want him dead now, they actually will want him dead if he were to admit to that. And its not like Russia or any other nation would go "Yeah, we're actually getting all that secret information he stole." But you think that isn't their number one concern? You think they wouldn't be the least bit suspicious about someone who just stole a lot of state secrets fleeing to a foreign power they're not on the best of terms with? I mean its really not that hard to understand.
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