People Keep Crashing into Google's Self-driving Cars: Robots, However, Follow the Rules of the Road - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Firo;47716559]These things are so packed with sensors I don't see why we'd need to ban manual drivers anytime soon. Everybody keeps talking about how they'd mess everything up for the automated cars, but nobody seems to realize that automated cars can react to you pretty damn fast if not predict what you're going to do before you do it. Also, even if you manage to have an accident on a major highway everybody else won't be affected too much since traffic flow problems can mostly be attributed to human error (i.e. tailgating, brake slamming, rubbernecking, etc). Either way I'm perfectly happy to not drive on freeways and interstates. Can catch up on my reading or something instead.[/QUOTE] Because if automated cars = no crashes and manual cars = crashes, then having manual cars endangers lives. They might be able to react fast but they are not super cars, they're still affected by physics and if a manual driver crashes into one, he is endangering other people. [editline]13th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=FetusFondler;47716584]Oh yes ban people with different opinions from yours, that sounds like an amazing use for a forum Where have I heard this before?[/QUOTE]It's amazing how you push your right to drive as more important than tens of thousands of lives.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47716564]Too bad, because sooner or later all passenger cars will be automated.[/QUOTE] I'll believe it when I see it. And if it happens after I'm dead, all the better.

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;47716181]A computer wouldn't be able to make any judgement out of it's pre-defined rules. If I need to go off the road to avoid something, the car sure as fuck won't be able to do that. By your logic, we should've have worked on automated guns that only fire when a CPU say so, since way more people die with firearms accidents.[/QUOTE] Did you even watch the video in the OP? They showed multiple instances where the car avoided things by going out of normal driving. It's got loads of sensors that will see more obstacles and react to them far faster than you could. And as far as your gun argument goes, [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TrackingPoint"]you're a few years too late[/url]. [QUOTE=FetusFondler;47716543]Yeah well good for you, I bloody well wouldn't. I'd rather go through some tough driving tests and psychotechnical tests and be able to drive 100% everywhere I go. [editline]13th May 2015[/editline] And this thread is exactly why I don't want to live in a future envisioned by the majority of Facepunch. Good riddance.[/QUOTE] Christ. You're incredibly selfish if you think your right to have fun driving a car (which you could feasibly still do in low traffic areas, or on a track) is more important than the thousands of lives lost every year due idiot drivers. And who the hell do you think would want to go through "tough driving tests and psychotechnical tests" (as if it would even protect against drivers who aren't paying any attention, or are just tired/drunk) just so they can do their daily commute? Only car enthusiasts would care enough to go through all that, everyone else would be much happier taking a standard driving test and letting the car do most of the work, while they spend their commute time doing something more interesting or useful.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47716543]Yeah well good for you, I bloody well wouldn't. I'd rather go through some tough driving tests and psychotechnical tests and be able to drive 100% everywhere I go. [/QUOTE] why exactly? is there some practical reason, or is it because you just like driving? Because Im not sure if "I like driving" stands up to the exorbitantly high number of deaths related to car accidents [editline]13th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Ragekipz;47716181]A computer wouldn't be able to make any judgement out of it's pre-defined rules. If I need to go off the road to avoid something, [B]the car sure as fuck won't be able to do that[/B]. [/QUOTE] uhhh, Im pretty sure it would actually be BETTER at collision avoidance than you, there are plenty of videos around that demonstrate the computers ability to avoid a crash. it has better situational awareness than you, doesn't experience panic, and can automatically and near-instantly determine the least dangerous course of action in a given situation.

[QUOTE=ultradude25;47716670]And who the hell do you think would want to go through "tough driving tests and psychotechnical tests" (as if it would even protect against drivers who aren't paying any attention, or are just tired/drunk) just so they can do their daily commute? Only car enthusiasts would care enough to go through all that, everyone else would be much happier taking a standard driving test and letting the car do most of the work, while they spend their commute time doing something more interesting or useful.[/QUOTE] ...And I never said the opposite, did I? I'm saying [B]I'd[/B] be willing to go through the trouble. Me and likely all the other enthusiasts out there. I'm not saying regular people who just want to go through A to B should have to go through the evaluations required for a freaking airline pilot. [QUOTE=itisjuly;47716585] It's amazing how you push your right to drive as more important than tens of thousands of lives.[/QUOTE] Oh this is just classic. How typical. Driving is one of the thing I enjoy most in life, and because I [I]want[/I] to drive and choose to defend my ability to, I am solely responsible for every bad, irresponsible, or drunk driver out there. Grow up and maybe try and act a bit more civilized.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47716707]...And I never said the opposite, did I? I'm saying [B]I'd[/B] be willing to go through the trouble. Me and likely all the other enthusiasts out there. I'm not saying regular people who just want to go through A to B should have to go through the evaluations required for a freaking airline pilot. Oh this is just classic. How typical. Driving is one of the thing I enjoy most in life, and because I [I]want[/I] to drive and choose to defend my ability to, I am solely responsible for every bad, irresponsible, or drunk driver out there. Grow up and maybe try and act a bit more civilized.[/QUOTE] Im not saying you cant drive, but much like recreational flying, shooting, racing, or any other activity where you present a danger to others, you should do it in designated areas to mitigate risk. that's not exactly an unreasonable expectation

[QUOTE=RopaDope;47714396]The day someone gets killed by an automated car is the day the automated car [B]is outlawed in the place it happened[/B].[/QUOTE] The more likely outcome, as I've come to expect such knee-jerk reactions in politics.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47716707] Oh this is just classic. How typical. Driving is one of the thing I enjoy most in life, and because I [I]want[/I] to drive and choose to defend my ability to, I am solely responsible for every bad, irresponsible, or drunk driver out there. Grow up and maybe try and act a bit more civilized.[/QUOTE] You say for me to grow up when you're ready to endanger other people in the name of your hobby? There are tracks specifically for hobby driving, go there. Lets keep the streets safe and reduce pointless deaths.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47716756]You say for me to grow up when you're ready to endanger other people in the name of your hobby?[/QUOTE] Stop with this "if you are a driver you are automatically a bad driver endangering everyone, wanting to drive is wanting to murder" attitude. Do you realize how silly you sound? Stop lumping everyone in the same basket. Maybe one day we'll have a beer and I'll tell you how the real world works. [QUOTE=Timebomb575;47716736]Im not saying you cant drive, but much like recreational flying, shooting, racing, or any other activity where you present a danger to others, you should do it in designated areas to mitigate risk. that's not exactly an unreasonable expectation[/QUOTE] And is it an unreasonable expectation that some people who will be willing to go through a lot to be able to commute on public roads be allowed to after some extensive testing? On average, one person only has a car crash once every 18 years. And the majority of crashes are minor accidents in low-speed areas. The reason for the relatively high (compared to aviation) mortality rates is simply the huge amount of people that drive and the low standards for getting a license (especially in the US). So forgive me if I think prohibiting any and all people from driving is just a little extreme and a very precocious thought for 2015, but I think it's actually quite reasonable to [I]give the chance[/I] of driving to people who just want to drive on their way to work. After the initial "self-driving cars are scary" knee-jerk reactions, we'll see a massive adoption of them if they become affordable for the general populace, and you will immediately see the statistics for mortality, crash rates and crash frequency per human driver improving dramatically. I think it's wiser and [B]more reasonable[/B] to wait until we start seeing those results and getting those statistics rather than playing judgemental forum dictator who wants to burn the witch who wants to drive in 2015 when self-driving cars are still experimental.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47716833]Stop with this "if you are a driver you are automatically a bad driver endangering everyone, wanting to drive is wanting to murder" attitude. Do you realize how silly you sound? Stop lumping everyone in the same basket. Maybe one day we'll have a beer and I'll tell you how the real world works.[/QUOTE] The way the real world works is that you're subject to human limitations, you will get tired, you will lose focus, you only have one set of eyes, and statistically you will fuck up far more than a computer [i]even if[/i] you're a good driver. Maybe not at first when the technology is in its infancy, but already Google's car is safer than the average driver and that's only going to get better. At best, you'll be an obstacle to computer-guided cars seamlessly zippering onto the freeway at 65mph because you can't keep up with computer efficiency. Enjoying driving as a hobby really does not outweigh the clear safety and efficiency benefit of taking humans out of the loop.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47716833]Stop with this "if you are a driver you are automatically a bad driver endangering everyone, wanting to drive is wanting to murder" attitude. Do you realize how silly you sound? Stop lumping everyone in the same basket. Maybe one day we'll have a beer and I'll tell you how the real world works[/QUOTE] That's completely irrelevant though. Give one person a license and suddenly everyone wants it. Nothing to guarantee all of them will be perfect drivers. It's why many are against executing prisoners. As long as the system can make mistakes involving lives, it should not be allowed to perform. Doesn't matter if you're the best driver ever, if making all cars AI means radical reduction in accidents, then it's better than the current system. Also no sane person would even want to have a beer with you, Mr Fetus Fondler

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU[/media] You guys know about this, right? That seems to be the basic devolution of the arguments presented: auto cars are inevitable, however much anyone (me included) would want to try and oppose it. We'll just get phased out and ostracized then, just for driving. Well, at least there's still open off-road to use, just like private flying, eh?

[QUOTE=Trumple;47716204]In the UK there's a mandatory test that checks for stuff like this that your car must pass in order to be legally driven, isn't there something equivalent in the US?[/QUOTE] Only in some states. Here in Indiana there are no safety or emission tests or certifications to make a car road worthy.

I feel like it will ease into it. Like how we have HOV lanes now. Houston's starting to add managed lanes that change depending on road condition. I imagine we'll start to see Self-Driven lanes in the far inside of the highway where the self driving cars can all go about their business. Then there will be two of these lanes... then 3... then the whole highway will be self driven except for a lane or two of human driven lanes.

Either everybody has an automated car or nobody has one, anything in-between is just going to cause unnecessary problems

[QUOTE=Doom14;47715979]Because I like driving? Wow, imagine that. It's a great feeling of control to be in a car, and go "Man, I also need some groceries/gas/whatever" and change your route accordingly without having to fuck with a GPS/computer. I also find long drives, as long as the traffic is light, relaxing. They're a great escape from everything else, as long as you pay attention to the road. It's also the only time I get to turn up some music and express by ear-bleeding singing skills. However, being in the car and having someone else drive is insanely boring. Conversations are distracting to most drivers, so I usually just sleep or kill time on my phone - it's not as engaging or fun. I am entirely for self-driving cars, however. Just not some state-issued mandate telling me I can't drive my car because I'm a dumb, slovenly beast who is going to kill someone. There [B][I]are [/I][/B] some people who have absolutely no right to be on the road (and boy, do you see them), who would really benefit from self-driving cars. Especially the elderly, some of which cling to their license when they clearly express a danger to everyone else on the road. I think if driving tests become harder and more centralized (my actual in-car test in Mississippi was four left hand turns and pulling back into the parking lot), and especially if the self-driving cars had manufacturer liability for accidents rather than occupant - there'd slowly be a big shift forward until driving your own car becomes an expensive hobby, and nothing else.[/QUOTE] Alright, settle down the hostility. There are plenty of these self driving cars that also have steering wheels

thank god i'll probably be long dead when this shitty automated car business will swing into full effect worldwide i get that its efficient, progressive and all around ground breaking and there are lots of dumbasses on the road that will get themselves killed less often but theres nothing like driving your own car in your own free time going wherever you damn well please. it's the ultimate symbol of freedom in modern times. especially when you take care of your vehicle and know its exact limitations. i guess most people just see driving as some menial thing or their cars at home as the "go to work and back" car and nothing beyond that, but as a guy who works as a driver to make a living and in general loving anything to do with motors there is literally nothing else like it in the world. i am damn well sure that the vast majority of people will not take kindly to someone telling them they cant drive their own legally purchased cars anymore because "the computer will just drive for you" and it's illegal to drive yourself because you are statistically an absolute moron who can't tell apart the clutch pedal from the gas. gonna be decades if not an entire century even for this shit to have any positive traction with the public.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47716585]Because if automated cars = no crashes and manual cars = crashes, then having manual cars endangers lives. They might be able to react fast but they are not super cars, they're still affected by physics and if a manual driver crashes into one, he is endangering other people. [editline]13th May 2015[/editline] It's amazing how you push your right to drive as more important than tens of thousands of lives.[/QUOTE] Driving isn't even a right either. He's trying to say that his revocable privilege to drive is more important than tens of thousands of lives. But this is par for course in all threads in the last year or so that relate to the self driving cars or driving while on drugs. There's always people coming in thinking they're the gods of driving and incapable of doing wrong. It's probably because the average user of this forum has only been driving for a few years max or cannot drive yet at all, so they still think they're the greatest driver ever. It seems a lot of you people are forgetting that cars are incredibly heavy pieces of potentially deadly machinery that in 2012 killed an average of 84 people per day. In 2012 there were 14,827 murders committed. (Source: ucr) compare this to the 30,800 vehicle fatalities. (source: nhtsa) There are almost twice as many people killed per year because of cars than there are murders. And somehow this is perfectly acceptable? Edit: fixed stats to updated NHTSA reports for 2012.

[QUOTE=Trumple;47716204]In the UK there's a mandatory test that checks for stuff like this that your car must pass in order to be legally driven, isn't there something equivalent in the US?[/QUOTE] It depends on the state, really. Some have emissions inspections, safety inspections, or both. Florida has zero inspections, allowing people to drive down the road with suspension made from wood while steering using a wrench attached to the steering column, allowing everyone behind them to get a good whiff of their catless exhaust. [editline]13th May 2015[/editline] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States[/url]

[QUOTE=draugur;47717816]Driving isn't even a right either. He's trying to say that his revocable privilege to drive is more important than tens of thousands of lives. But this is par for course in all threads in the last year or so that relate to the self driving cars or driving while on drugs. There's always people coming in thinking they're the gods of driving and incapable of doing wrong. It's probably because the average user of this forum has only been driving for a few years max or cannot drive yet at all, so they still think they're the greatest driver ever. It seems a lot of you people are forgetting that cars are incredibly heavy pieces of potentially deadly machinery that in 2012 killed an average of 92 people per day.[/QUOTE] cars dont kill people, people kill people

[QUOTE=Melnek;47717856]cars dont kill people, people kill people[/QUOTE] Okay? You literally just made the entire point of [I]why self driving cars are a good thing[/I]. People kill people, robots aren't people.

[QUOTE=Melnek;47717856]cars dont kill people, people kill people[/QUOTE] Lol, exactly

[QUOTE=Melnek;47717856]cars dont kill people, people kill people[/QUOTE] People can kill people by driving cars into people.

[QUOTE=Melnek;47717856]cars dont kill people, people kill people[/QUOTE] ford pinto

Once it becomes just as viable to have automated cars, as regular ones, I think it should be much more difficult to get a drivers license. I think we should stop treating driving as a 'given' and more of something you earn. You're only driving because you want to, so you better make sure you know how to do it safe.

[QUOTE=Melnek;47717617]thank god i'll probably be long dead when this shitty automated car business will swing into full effect worldwide i get that its efficient, progressive and all around ground breaking and there are lots of dumbasses on the road that will get themselves killed less often but theres nothing like driving your own car in your own free time going wherever you damn well please. it's the ultimate symbol of freedom in modern times. especially when you take care of your vehicle and know its exact limitations. i guess most people just see driving as some menial thing or their cars at home as the "go to work and back" car and nothing beyond that, but as a guy who works as a driver to make a living and in general loving anything to do with motors there is literally nothing else like it in the world. i am damn well sure that the vast majority of people will not take kindly to someone telling them they cant drive their own legally purchased cars anymore because "the computer will just drive for you" and it's illegal to drive yourself because you are statistically an absolute moron who can't tell apart the clutch pedal from the gas. gonna be decades if not an entire century even for this shit to have any positive traction with the public.[/QUOTE] Something I'm finding fucking baffling in EVERY thread about automated cars is this opinion here. I LOVE driving. Once I got my car, my life changed and I honestly have spent a lot of my life driving and find it to be a relaxing, enjoyable experience that soothes me and gives me mobility around a very spread out area. I LOVE driving. But no matter how much I love driving, I don't think my desire to enjoy an activity is a good enough reason to void the safety of other people. How do you people come to these conclusions? Computers WILL be better drivers. Computers can learn to do anything and the more prevalent the technology, the better it will learn. Denying this is going against reality. [editline]13th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Melnek;47717856]cars dont kill people, people kill people[/QUOTE] And people in cars cause a huge amount of preventable deaths every year. And you're saying you'd rather be dead than live in a world where that's not the case. That is strange.

[QUOTE=MedicWine;47718022]Once it becomes just as viable to have automated cars, as regular ones, I think it should be much more difficult to get a drivers license. I think we should stop treating driving as a 'given' and more of something you earn. You're only driving because you want to, so you better make sure you know how to do it safe.[/QUOTE] Our license already requires thousands of euros and at least 6 months to get your full license

[QUOTE=opaali;47718217]Our license already requires thousands of euros and at least 6 months to get your full license[/QUOTE] Here in the US you go to the DMV, take a 20 question(maybe 25?) knowledge test on the computer that literally anyone can pass since you can do it an infinite number of times basically, then you drive around the block with a driving examiner or whatever they're called and they give you your license. I shit you not, I literally left the parking lot of the DMV, drove about one block and was told to turn around and head back to the DMV. Getting my license took maybe an hour and a half max, and most of that was spent in queue.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47718115] And people in cars cause a huge amount of preventable deaths every year. And you're saying you'd rather be dead than live in a world where that's not the case. That is strange.[/QUOTE] i just don't think that just because kevin the fuckwad went 50 above the speed limit and killed an entire family that the rest of us deserve to be treated the same as kevin i mean horrific drivers are the minority and yet they still impose limitations on everyone else regardless of that i'm fine with self-driving cars but making them mandatory at any point in the (distant) future is retarded. improve license regulations and road safety instead of just taking the wheel out of our hands. the more i think about this the more i see where pro-gun people are coming from tbh because it's basically the same argument.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;47717249]Alright, settle down the hostility. There are plenty of these self driving cars that also have steering wheels[/QUOTE] Like its been said, its an all or nothing deal. And again, I don't fucking trust us to go rushing in without actually thinking about this.