People Keep Crashing into Google's Self-driving Cars: Robots, However, Follow the Rules of the Road - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Melnek;47718379]the more i think about this the more i see where pro-gun people are coming from tbh because it's basically the same argument.[/QUOTE] It's... really not. And I say that as someone who is pro-gun and pro-automated driving. I think you should have every right to own a car and drive it yourself, even if self-driving cars are the norm. But I don't think you have the right to take your car onto the highway where you present a substantial risk to other drivers, not to mention impacting the efficiency of everyone else's driving, when a computer-driven alternative is available. Where it's like guns is that you're advocating the personal freedom to pursue a hobby you enjoy. But nobody's arguing against that- we're arguing against the assumed right to enjoy your hobby in a way that poses a risk to other people. You can own a gun, as long as you're using it on a designated range where you don't run the risk of injuring bystanders. Even in our hypothetical future you can own a car, you just need a designated area to drive it. Yes, that's inconvenient, but there are so many people dying each year to car crashes that there is absolutely no way a hobby can outweigh preventable deaths. Today my normally fifteen minute commute took forty-five minutes, because someone rear-ended someone else and everyone gawking as they went by slowed down the merging on a highway on-ramp and backed up traffic for two miles. Completely preventable accident. Completely preventable slowdown. Even with a non-fatal accident, there's property damage to the cars involved, and more than that easily thousands of man-hours of productivity lost sitting in traffic. I get what you're saying and I sympathize, and nobody so far has said you shouldn't be allowed to own a conventional car and use it somewhere away from traffic, but if self-driving cars are ubiquitous and effective there is a moral and economic argument in favor of mandating them that drastically outweighs a hobbyist interest.

[QUOTE=catbarf;47718502]It's... really not. And I say that as someone who is pro-gun and pro-automated driving. I think you should have every right to own a car and drive it yourself, even if self-driving cars are the norm. But I don't think you have the right to take your car onto the highway where you present a substantial risk to other drivers, not to mention impacting the efficiency of everyone else's driving, when a computer-driven alternative is available. Where it's like guns is that you're advocating the personal freedom to pursue a hobby you enjoy. But nobody's arguing against that- we're arguing against the assumed right to enjoy your hobby in a way that poses a risk to other people. You can own a gun, as long as you're using it on a designated range where you don't run the risk of injuring bystanders. Even in our hypothetical future you can own a car, you just need a designated area to drive it. Yes, that's inconvenient, but there are so many people dying each year to car crashes that there is absolutely no way a hobby can outweigh preventable deaths. Today my normally fifteen minute commute took forty-five minutes, because someone rear-ended someone else and everyone gawking as they went by slowed down the merging on a highway on-ramp and backed up traffic for two miles. Completely preventable accident. Completely preventable slowdown. Even with a non-fatal accident, there's property damage to the cars involved, and more than that easily thousands of man-hours of productivity lost sitting in traffic. I get what you're saying and I sympathize, and nobody so far has said you shouldn't be allowed to own a conventional car and use it somewhere away from traffic, but if self-driving cars are ubiquitous and effective there is a moral and economic argument in favor of mandating them that drastically outweighs a hobbyist interest.[/QUOTE] I wish I had something to add to this but you've covered all the bases of the issue basically.

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;47712565]Reading "robots, however, follows the Rules of the Road" with R capitalized, makes it sound there are some robots ala Mad Max which step down from the vehicle and apply the "Rule of the Road".... With no mercy and remorse.[/QUOTE] [b]Rules of the Road??[/b] [video=youtube;iE5y4jlofhI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE5y4jlofhI[/video]

[QUOTE=Melnek;47717617]theres nothing like driving your own car in your own free time going wherever you damn well please. it's the ultimate symbol of freedom in modern times[/QUOTE] That's just it - it's a SYMBOL of freedom. Not actual freedom. When you're driving a vehicle your freedoms are restricted more than at any other time in your life, assuming you're an average person. You're subject to so many rules that most people would have a hard time even listing a tenth of them. A self driving car would give you the freedom to completely ignore all of these rules and do whatever you want in your car while it drives you to your destination.

If you think a "hobby" that does millions and millions in property damage each year, kills over 30,000 people, injures countless others is a valid reason to fight self-driving cars, you're a selfish fool. The act of driving is incredibly dangerous, and one second of someones' eyes being off the road could result in deaths. I don't care how "safe" you think you are, you are going to make a mistake. There is no human being out there who drives who has not at least fucked up once after being on the road for more than a month. A computer is not going to make the same errors as you. The google car is incredibly aware of its surroundings in a way you physically cannot be. If you want to drive on a track or fuck around with your cars on your own property? Go right ahead. But don't put anyone else's life at risk because you're too cocky to give up your "control" of the wheel.

[QUOTE=MedicWine;47718022]Once it becomes just as viable to have automated cars, as regular ones, I think it should be much more difficult to get a drivers license. I think we should stop treating driving as a 'given' and more of something you earn. You're only driving because you want to, so you better make sure you know how to do it safe.[/QUOTE] Which is what I'm saying but apparently 'round these parts this belief makes me Hitler.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47718992]Which is what I'm saying but apparently 'round these parts this belief makes me Hitler.[/QUOTE] My completely unfounded armchair psychologist theory is that the internet has a lot of young people who only got their full license a few years ago so driving hasn't yet become an absolute slog for them.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47716905]That's completely irrelevant though. Give one person a license and suddenly everyone wants it. [/QUOTE] And why should we treat driving licenses like a right again? I find it baffling we don't even test for reaction times.

Sex in the car now? Reckless driving charge. Sex in the car of the future? A good way to pass the time on the way home from the store.

Self driving cars means hotboxing like a fucking chimney. I like it.

[QUOTE=0x0000000C;47719040]Self driving cars means hotboxing like a fucking chimney. I like it.[/QUOTE] Once recreational marijuana is legalized the air conditioning system could even have a hotbox setting, right next to the tap where whiskey comes out

[QUOTE=Coolboy;47713970]Please tell me, how does a multi-milliion dollar project that is slowly being tested and rolled out, with only a handful cars on the road, impact you in such a way? How can a freaking car with sensors, advanced algoriths and awesome driving capabilities be minimalist or even dull. If a car with the ability to drive itself has such an "soulsucking", "fun-destroying" impact on you, you should reconsider your priorities.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://blogs-images.forbes.com/sethporges/files/2014/05/googlecar-e1401261602733.jpg[/IMG] THIS is what im talking about. It's so fucking dull and soulless.

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;47719060][IMG]http://blogs-images.forbes.com/sethporges/files/2014/05/googlecar-e1401261602733.jpg[/IMG] THIS is what im talking about. It's so fucking dull and soulless.[/QUOTE] Because every car looks the same, right?

They can follow the rules of the road, but that's only half of being a good driver. Can they also drive defensively?

[QUOTE=Melnek;47718379]i just don't think that just because kevin the fuckwad went 50 above the speed limit and killed an entire family that the rest of us deserve to be treated the same as kevin [/QUOTE] ye except there's lots of kevins out there traffic accidents are one of the top 10 leading causes of death and, if i'm not wrong, the only one on the list that's not cancer or some sort of illness

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;47719060] THIS is what im talking about. It's so fucking dull and soulless.[/QUOTE] Who cares though? Like I understand wanting a nice expressive car and shit, but you have to understand that its vanity trimming. The entire function of a car or bus or any form of transport is to get a human from point A to point B as safely and quickly as possible. I don't care if my car meant for getting me to work, to school, to the store, is pretty or not. I care that it is safe, cheap, quick, and is good on gas. Not everyone is a gear-head and even people like me who really do love vehicles understands that on a level of living my life, its a lot better to be practical than emotional. "real" cars will never die out, they will simply become luxuries and hobbist concepts. My car does not define me and who I am, it is only as soulless as I want to make it out to be, all cars are mass-produced manufactured items that follow certain designs to both entice people to buy it and to be safe in the event of a crash. If I want real soul, I'll fucking make myself a ratrod, because that is the most human and individual thing you could do with a car. [editline]13th May 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=elevate;47719080]They can follow the rules of the road, but that's only half of being a good driver. Can they also drive defensively?[/QUOTE] The main complaint I've heard about the Google cars is that they're really cautious and drive like they're afraid of everything.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47719102]The main complaint I've heard about the Google cars is that they're really cautious and drive like they're afraid of everything.[/QUOTE] Perhaps it's to compensate for a lack of algorithms that can react to human error. For now, it's probably necessary.

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;47719060][IMG]http://blogs-images.forbes.com/sethporges/files/2014/05/googlecar-e1401261602733.jpg[/IMG] THIS is what im talking about. It's so fucking dull and soulless.[/QUOTE] So? If you want a car to enjoy working on in your free time, you can have that. But that car that you believe is so great shouldn't be on the streets. It's about who, or in a better scenario, what is driving the car. A safer alternative is a safer alternative no matter how you slice it.

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;47719060][IMG]http://blogs-images.forbes.com/sethporges/files/2014/05/googlecar-e1401261602733.jpg[/IMG] THIS is what im talking about. It's so fucking dull and soulless.[/QUOTE] It's a test model you reactionary twonk. When the technology has been ironed out and is ready for consumer use, it will be properly integrated into what we actually consider a "car" today, the bodies might have a couple of lumps and bumps they don't currently have, but there's no massive reason for them to be massively different.

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;47719060]THIS is what im talking about. It's so fucking dull and soulless.[/QUOTE] Eh, isn't this the most common self-driving model right now? [IMG]http://gas2.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Lexus-RX450h-self-driving-car.jpeg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;47719126]So? If you want a car to enjoy working on in your free time, you can have that. [B]But that car that you believe is so great shouldn't be on the streets[/B]. It's about who, or in a better scenario, what is driving the car. A safer alternative is a safer alternative no matter how you slice it.[/QUOTE] What do you mean by that?

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;47719134]What do you mean by that?[/QUOTE] When self-driving vehicles become popular, driving a manual vehicle should not be allowed on the normal roadways.

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;47719134]What do you mean by that?[/QUOTE] Relative to the Google car.

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;47719147]When self-driving vehicles become popular, driving a manual vehicle should not be allowed on the normal roadways.[/QUOTE] Says who? You? Why should I, a person who has never had a crash in 10 years, not be allowed to drive? Fuck you and fuck that mindset.

I usually find TestECull's posts a bit extreme and I don't really think he has the right mindset about things, but I understand him. As in, I understand why his posts are sometimes bitter or jaded. Because let's face it, you lot can be right fucking dicks when you want to be. I mean, let's take a look at this specimen right here: [QUOTE=itisjuly;47716564]Too bad, because sooner or later all passenger cars will be automated.[/QUOTE] This reads literally like something a grade schooler would say. "Cars will be automated and you can't do nothing, nah nah naah nah naaah naaah!" I mean, what does a "deal with it!!" post bring to the table exactly? Oh you sure showed me. Let's take another post for an example: [QUOTE=itisjuly;47716585] It's amazing how you push your right to drive as more important than tens of thousands of lives.[/QUOTE] Good lord. The mental image this post gives me is itisjuly driving to college or work or whatever and sweating profusely as if he's doing a really naughty thing, "ohshitohshit fuck I'm endangering so many lives I'm sorry I'm sorry". It's 2015, there are no driverless cars avaliable to the consumer yet, and you're [I]already[/I] trying to appeal to emotion and guilt trip people who just want to drive as if they are personally responsible for every person that dies on the road out there? No, less of that. Calm your horses, be less of a dick. If you want another example, Tesla. "I appreciate this technology and recognize its usefulness and importance but I, personally, for subjective reasons or because of the way I use my car, do not want an electric car". In any other place, this is an [B]entirely reasonable[/B] thing to say. It [I]doesn't[/I] try and downplay the technology, [I]doesn't[/I] try and ridicule the people who adhere to it, it's [I]simply[/I] an opinion with not much to say about it. Ohooo, but not here. Nuh-uh. No siree bob. People take it personally. If you say that in a Tesla thread here, the pitchforks rise immediately. The boxes flood in, the holier-than-thou nonsense begins, and everyone and their dog wants a bite off the poster. This is insane. And then you wonder why people immediately get on the defensive and why SH can be such a shithole sometimes. You people do this. And then you have the guts to talk about 4chan, "oh they're such assholes, we're all nice and reasonable here!". No you're not. Get a grip, stop being a douchebag. The whole forum would benefit from it.

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;47719168]Says who? You? Why should I, a person who has never had a crash in 10 years, not be allowed to drive? Fuck you and fuck that mindset.[/QUOTE] I enjoy driving as much as you do, but I would happily secede my right to do so if it meant eliminating one of the top 10 causes of death. Anything less is selfish, to say the least. However, feel free to drive as much as you want while the technology hasn't become popular yet.

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;47719168]Says who? You? Why should I, a person who has never had a crash in 10 years, not be allowed to drive? Fuck you and fuck that mindset.[/QUOTE] Have you ever seen a magic trick? Many times you'll miss things because they happen so fast. That's not your fault, that's just how human brains function. It has nothing to do with me personally hating your driving, it's that you are able to make mistakes and miss things. You think because you've been driving without a wreck for 10 years means you're invincible to an error? You're not. All you have to do to send a two ton behemoth of metal into a crowd of pedestrians is jerk your arm hard to the right. Seem a little unsafe to you?

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;47719202]Have you ever seen a magic trick? Many times you'll miss things because they happen so fast. That's not your fault, that's just how human brains function. It has nothing to do with me personally hating your driving, it's that you are able to make mistakes and miss things. You think because you've been driving without a wreck for 10 years means you're invincible to an error? You're not. All you have to do to send a two ton behemoth of metal into a crowd of pedestrians is jerk your arm hard to the right. Seem a little unsafe to you?[/QUOTE] I ride a motorcycle. I ride THE most unsafe thing on the road. If I fuck up, it's my LIFE. Even a small crash can kill me, or ruin me for life. I keep that in mind every time I ride. But I keep doing it because I like it. Nothing will take that from me. There is nothing I can do to prevent it except keep my eyes open and watch EVERYTHING best I can. Do you think self driving cars will be glitch free, that THEY can see everything? if you say yes, you're wrong. They can't predict everything, they can't see everything no matter how hard you try. Something will always happen, something will always fault, and there will always be crashes. Even with self driving cars, I don't think deaths from driving will go down much. Planes pretty much fly themselves and they crash too, even with a human behind the stick to correct it. And that's not a very good example. I'm not going to fucking drive into a crowd of pedestrians.

[QUOTE=elevate;47719181]You think you're an exception to the rule don't you? I enjoy driving as much as you do, but I would happily secede my right to do so if it mean eliminating one of the top 10 causes of death. Anything less is selfish.[/QUOTE] [I]You[/I] happily would. Then why not change "the rule"? Why not make a driving license about as hard to get as a pilot's license minus the obvious costs to boost the average quality of drivers on ridiculous [I]while[/I] self-driving cars rise in popularity? There isn't one single solution to a problem. This is why I say that now, in 2015, where there are no consumer self-driving cars, it is way too fucking early to be making calls this huge. Calls to end an era because of [I]speculation.[/I] Let's wait until we start getting data, self-driving cars become of common usage and the only people driving are the ones who want to drive, and [B]then[/B] let's look at that data and see if the crash rates are at a level that makes it worth it to ban the 1% of people who want to drive.