People Keep Crashing into Google's Self-driving Cars: Robots, However, Follow the Rules of the Road - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Chernobyl426;47719530]I actually don't drive anymore. I refuse to drive because of how dangerous it is, especially because I am a very inexperienced driver and could cause harm to others. [/QUOTE] You did the right thing, if you are that scared of driving you shouldn't be driving. Your stressed-out, fearful mindset is a big danger to your ability. Don't think we are all like you though. [QUOTE]Do you really think all people hold with two hands the entire time? I'm not saying your arm twitching will cause you to hit people. I'm saying if I jerk the car to the right, it's going to the right. The car has no mind as to what it's going into, whether it be turning into a driveway or turning into a crowd of people. That's a flaw.[/QUOTE] Yes, I do believe that most drivers hold the steering wheel with both hands. You're missing the fact that newer cars have sensors that prevent you from hitting things, and some even come with assists that help you stay between the lines?

[QUOTE=Melnek;47719556]you gotta be more than optimistic to the point of naivety to ever think that this shit will be anywhere near feasible in the next 50 years.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.autoalliance.org/INDEX.CFM?OBJECTID=156688B0-CD5D-11E2-8898000C296BA163[/url] 57% of people think self-driving cars are either a good idea, or are unsure on the importance of self driving vehicles. People who think they are a BAD idea are actually the minority at 42%. even if you lose the unsure people, 33% still think they are a GOOD idea, that's a third of a the population, and is a mere 9% from overtaking the people who think it's a bad idea. this sort of thing could be here faster than you might think.

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[QUOTE=Melnek;47719556]you gotta be more than optimistic to the point of naivety to ever think that this shit will be anywhere near feasible in the next 50 years.[/QUOTE] How fast were cars made common from the point where they began mass production?

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47719585]You did the right thing, if you are that scared of driving you shouldn't be driving. Your stressed-out, fearful mindset is a big danger to your ability. Don't think we are all like you though. Yes, I do believe that most drivers hold the steering wheel with both hands. You're missing the fact that newer cars have sensors that prevent you from hitting things, and some even come with assists that help you stay between the lines?[/QUOTE] But over-confidence can be just as bad. Everyone can make errors. Why not completely eliminate that possibility? Even with sensors, if you're gonna fast enough the sensor won't stop you from turning. There is still an aspect of human control that can do damage. For instance, the wreck I was in was caused by a pothole in the road. The sensor would not have been able to accurately predict what to do, and would've only been saying stop before we hit the mailbox. It's not a fully functional and flawless system like self-driving cars can be.

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;47719570]why [I]wouldn't[/I] that be how it works?? is a high speed, coordinated system not the logical conclusion when it comes to self-driving cars?[/QUOTE] Motorways are "high speed" already, they could be higher but we are still stuck with outdated speed limits from the 60's for literally no good reason at all. Self-driving cars would still require safety distances, as good as the communication system between the cars would be there's always delays, and physics doesn't stop being a thing either. You can't move around at light speed because G forces are still a thing. When I drive with passengers I take corners slower, not because I drive on the limit of grip at all times but because being thrown about on every corner is nobody's idea of comfort. [editline]14th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Chernobyl426;47719618]But over-confidence can be just as bad. Everyone can make errors. Why not completely eliminate that possibility? Even with sensors, if you're gonna fast enough the sensor won't stop you from turning. There is still an aspect of human control that can do damage. For instance, the wreck I was in was caused by a pothole in the road. The sensor would not have been able to accurately predict what to do, and would've only been saying stop before we hit the mailbox. It's not a fully functional and flawless system like self-driving cars can be.[/QUOTE] And who says the opposite of fear is reckless overconfidence? Who says nobody drives defensively? And why on earth would a computer in one car have to be necessarily inferior to the computer in another one just because one is mostly automatic and the other is mostly manual? Your assumptions are completely baseless.

[QUOTE=Timebomb575;47719589][url]http://www.autoalliance.org/INDEX.CFM?OBJECTID=156688B0-CD5D-11E2-8898000C296BA163[/url] 57% of people think self-driving cars are either a good idea, or are unsure on the importance of self driving vehicles. People who think they are a BAD idea are actually the minority at 42%. even if you lose the unsure people, 33% still think they are a GOOD idea, that's a third of a the population, and is a mere 9% from overtaking the people who think it's a bad idea. this sort of thing could be here faster than you might think.[/QUOTE] 42% is a lot of fucking people plus 57% just think it's a good idea, the question wasn't "do you want them to replace the majority of the cars on our roads?" people probably just went "yeah, self-driving cars, why not, go technology!". even the title of the article starts with "CONSUMERS STILL WANT TO BE IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT".

[QUOTE=Melnek;47719686]42% is a lot of fucking people plus 57% just think it's a good idea, the question wasn't "do you want them to replace the majority of the cars on our roads?" people probably just went "yeah, self-driving cars, why not, go technology!". even the title of the article starts with "CONSUMERS STILL WANT TO BE IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT".[/QUOTE] and as opposed to the strawman you keep arguing with, no one wants to ban cars but go ahead, you're really lighting that strawman up

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47719741]and as opposed to the strawman you keep arguing with, no one wants to ban cars but go ahead, you're really lighting that strawman up[/QUOTE] Cars? You're right, nobody said they want to ban cars. But Melnek didn't imply that anyone had said that either.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47719756]Cars? You're right, nobody said they want to ban cars. But Melnek didn't imply that anyone had said that either.[/QUOTE] No one is trying to ban driving cars.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47719762]No one is trying to ban driving cars.[/QUOTE] Yeah. Nobody except all the people in this thread who implied they wanted such an outcome, anyway. But apart from those people, no, nobody. You're right.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47719762]No one is trying to ban driving cars.[/QUOTE] Why not? When the technology exists at marketable prices, why not gradually ban human-driven cars for the safety of others? The only argument I've truly heard against it is from auto enthusiasts, and the safety of others outweighs a hobby.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47719741]and as opposed to the strawman you keep arguing with, no one wants to ban cars but go ahead, you're really lighting that strawman up[/QUOTE] read the thread real careful next time before throwing out your buzzwords, bud [QUOTE=itisjuly;47716564]Too bad, because sooner or later all passenger cars will be automated.[/QUOTE] as well as the similar underlying motive in most peoples arguments in this thread. that is exactly what i'm addressing. i don't care for self-driving cars, i start to care when people here out of the blue started talking about them becoming the majority on the road, and even got aggressive at the fact that some people would like to still be able to use their fucking vehicles. literally telling them the fact they're on the road means they are bound to kill at least several people statistically at one point or another. jfc.

[QUOTE=PolarEventide;47719805]The only argument I've truly heard against it is from auto enthusiasts, and the safety of others outweighs a hobby.[/QUOTE] Yeah! Who cares what points they bring up? They're [I]auto enthusiasts[/I] so let's just disregard whatever they might have to say based on that! Jesus there are some dicks in this thread but you, my friend, take the dick cake.

[QUOTE=Melnek;47719890] as well as the similar underlying motive in most peoples arguments in this thread. that is exactly what i'm addressing. i don't care for self-driving cars, i start to care when people here out of the blue started talking about them becoming the majority on the road, and even got aggressive at the fact that some people would like to still be able to use their fucking vehicles. literally telling them the fact they're on the road means they are bound to kill at least several people statistically at one point or another. jfc.[/QUOTE] That's how it should and hopefully will be though. Once AI cars are advanced enough, they should replace all cars on the road, which should increase safety tenfold. You will still be able to drive your car, just not on same roads AI cars are driving, which will be majority of roads eventually.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47719912]Yeah! Who cares what points they bring up? They're [I]auto enthusiasts[/I] so let's just disregard whatever they might have to say based on that! Jesus there are some dicks in this thread but you, my friend, take the dick cake.[/QUOTE] Your hyperbole and ad hominem make a great argument. I did not say or imply a bias against auto enthusiasts anywhere. So, don't assume that I am biased against them. I said that the [b]only[/b] argument I have seen against it is auto enthusiasm, which is not a strong argument against making the roads safer for everyone. If there is a better argument against it, I'd love to hear it. But please don't put words in my mouth.

[QUOTE=Melnek;47719686]42% is a lot of fucking people plus 57% just think it's a good idea, the question wasn't "do you want them to replace the majority of the cars on our roads?" people probably just went "yeah, self-driving cars, why not, go technology!". even the title of the article starts with "CONSUMERS STILL WANT TO BE IN THE DRIVER'S SEAT".[/QUOTE] 42% is less than the % of people on facepunch that wanted weird porn threads, you know. [QUOTE=FetusFondler;47719803]Yeah. Nobody except all the people in this thread who implied they wanted such an outcome, anyway. But apart from those people, no, nobody. You're right.[/QUOTE] Most everyone has said ban them from public roads, which is a logical step eventually. Nobody here is trying to ban the driving of them outright.

[QUOTE=Melnek;47719556]you gotta be more than optimistic to the point of naivety to ever think that this shit will be anywhere near feasible in the next 50 years.[/QUOTE] Too bad it'll be happening in 2020. US government is aiming to mandate every car in production in 2020 has part-time autonomous driving capabilities. Obviously people will still be driving pre-2020 vehicles, but based on my data and experience at work, autonomous vehicles and manually driven vehicles together on a road don't pose many, if any, safety issues.

I think peoples' right to not die is more important than enthusiasm some have for driving cars.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47720145]I think peoples' right to not die is more important than enthusiasm some have for driving cars.[/QUOTE] So let's start this tomorrow. Ban all motorcycles. They are far less safe and less visible than vehicles and could reduce fatalities by a few thousand. Ban all vehicle paint that isn't bright yellow or safety orange. Less visible vehicles are a liability. Stop any vehicle from being able to move unless seatbelts are fastened. This will reduce a lot of fatalities. Do you want to know how this REALLY ends up? Vehicles will have autonomous capabilities, yes. However, it will not be mandatory to use them. Those who want to can, but those who don't aren't required to. We don't have the infrastructure to ensure autonomous vehicles can be completely separated, and banning manual driving will disenfranchise a LOT of working poor who either can't afford an autonomous vehicle or can't afford to fix their autonomous vehicles. It's a pipe dream, but not compatible with reality.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47720064]That's how it should and hopefully will be though. Once AI cars are advanced enough, they should replace all cars on the road, which should increase safety tenfold. You will still be able to drive your car, just not on same roads AI cars are driving, which will be majority of roads eventually.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=PolarEventide;47720132]Your hyperbole and ad hominem make a great argument. I did not say or imply a bias against auto enthusiasts anywhere. So, don't assume that I am biased against them. I said that the [b]only[/b] argument I have seen against it is auto enthusiasm, which is not a strong argument against making the roads safer for everyone. If there is a better argument against it, I'd love to hear it. But please don't put words in my mouth.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=deadoon;47720136] Most everyone has said ban them from public roads, which is a logical step eventually. Nobody here is trying to ban the driving of them outright.[/QUOTE] If the majority of the population adopts self-driving cars, the crash rates will be dramatically reduced as the most dangerous drivers, the distracted drivers who would rather be doing something else like texting or working, cease to exist. Combine that with better driving formation and more thorough testing for those who do wish to drive and the risk is mitigated enough you don't [B]need[/B] to ban driving on public roads and fucking ruin everything. Because the implications of not being able to drive on public roads impact things a lot more than you think. Besides, your dream of having roads with no manual vehicles whatsoever is not feasable because some service vehicles i.e. police cars have more complex functions that may require more finesse than fiddling with a computer telling the car what to do can give you. Not every vehicle on the road has going from A to B as a purpose. Not to mention offroading. Even outside of real offroading, talking about just simple dirt paths, the technology for the car to analyze the road ahead and detect what is or isn't mud that the car will get stuck on doesn't exist. And this isn't even talking about third world nations where proper signage might not exist for a self-driving car to make judgements. Oh, and unless you are able to retrofit self-driving into cars from the 80's and 90's you are shit out of luck too.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47719803]Yeah. Nobody except all the people in this thread who implied they wanted such an outcome, anyway. But apart from those people, no, nobody. You're right.[/QUOTE] Well it seems you failed at reading what they said if that's what you took from it

[QUOTE=opaali;47718217]Our license already requires thousands of euros and at least 6 months to get your full license[/QUOTE] When I got my license you had to be at least 16 and have passed a high school course. Basically you had to try.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;47720238]We don't have the infrastructure[/QUOTE] That's actually changing as we speak. V2X(Vehicle to Vehicle/Infrastructure) systems are being put in place all over the country. This will allow vehicles equipped with V2X capabilities to communicate with other vehicles equipped with V2X and traffic infrastructure such as traffic lights, though nodes are being placed alongside roads that allow communication. [QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;47720238] and banning manual driving will disenfranchise a LOT of working poor who either can't afford an autonomous vehicle or can't afford to fix their autonomous vehicles.[/QUOTE] I disagree with this. As autonomous vehicles progress they'll be like any other new technology. Obviously at the beginning they'll be expensive and repair will cost a lot, but when the technology advances and there's more suppliers, manufacturers, etc, it'll be like modern day vehicles. Mechanics will have access to the necessary equipment and parts to work on the vehicles, ordinary citizens will have access to aftermarket and OEM parts and be able to replace them without an issue.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;47720238]So let's start this tomorrow. Ban all motorcycles. They are far less safe and less visible than vehicles and could reduce fatalities by a few thousand.[/QUOTE] Self-driving motorcycles, man. Magic.

[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;47720363]That's actually changing as we speak. V2X(Vehicle to Vehicle/Infrastructure) systems are being put in place all over the country. This will allow vehicles equipped with V2X capabilities to communicate with other vehicles equipped with V2X and traffic infrastructure such as traffic lights, though nodes are being placed alongside roads that allow communication.[/QUOTE] Nonono, we don't have the infrastructure for having "autonomous vehicle only" roads everywhere. You would need to lay entire new roads in a LOT of places to be able to ban manual vehicle driving on the same lanes as autonomous vehicles, as people have been suggesting. [QUOTE]I disagree with this. As autonomous vehicles progress they'll be like any other new technology. Obviously at the beginning they'll be expensive and repair will cost a lot, but when the technology advances and there's more suppliers, manufacturers, etc, it'll be like modern day vehicles. Mechanics will have access to the necessary equipment and parts to work on the vehicles, ordinary citizens will have access to aftermarket and OEM parts and be able to replace them without an issue.[/QUOTE] I understand this, but this won't be for another 30-40 years after they become the MAJORITY, not 30-40 years after they are introduced. It's not going to happen until LATE in our lifetimes, if it happens in our lifetimes at all.

[QUOTE=V12US;47715691]If the car drives itself, is it going to pay for its own gas? Or is it going to make you pay, and then stop over at the most expensive gas station because it tastes better?[/QUOTE] not if they're electric

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47720312] Besides, your dream of having roads with no manual vehicles whatsoever is not feasable because some service vehicles i.e. police cars have more complex functions that may require more finesse than fiddling with a computer telling the car what to do can give you. Not every vehicle on the road has going from A to B as a purpose. [/QUOTE] Police cars could easily have different modes for driving, and could easily be set up so that they authenticate as a police car and are recorded by neighboring cars to prevent a spoofer from getting away with it(and easily get them a felony for impersonating a police officer), and allow the officer less encumbered passage through traffic to catch someone. Combine with pathing prediction and target tracking via visuals and radar, it would be harder than ever to get away. [QUOTE] Not to mention offroading. Even outside of real offroading, talking about just simple dirt paths, the technology for the car to analyze the road ahead and detect what is or isn't mud that the car will get stuck on doesn't exist.[/QUOTE] It's called radar(among other technologies), that can tell you the density of a substance(within reason, and with a few logical assumptions) that is ahead of you so long as it isn't a specially designed radio disruptive geometric shape and composition.

Tell you guys what, you can have your self-driving electric cars as long as I can drive my twin-turbo'd 1970 Plymouth Road-runner. (I don't really have one if that's what you're thinking, though i'd love to someday)

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47720375]Self-driving motorcycles, man. Magic.[/QUOTE] If they end up getting banned, it's for the general safety of the public. I'm all for personal freedoms, but you don't get to infringe on other people. Accidents happen, they are literally inevitable. If you avoid that by pulling human input out of the situation on highways or other such mass volume traffic flows then you can save a lot of lives. Obviously doing that is just wrong and you should just keep yelling at us how we're all evil authoritarians trying to stop you from doing your thing. Nope. I think most people who've said ban driver input have usually put a caveat to that such as limiting that rule to highways or such. Motorcycles are factually speaking the most dangerous form of transportation. Everyone who wants to make that decision should make it for themselves, but unlike many personal freedom issues, this one directly impacts other people as cars are almost exclusively traveling near other cars, and people. Other issues are different in that they're purely issues of self. This isn't.