People Keep Crashing into Google's Self-driving Cars: Robots, However, Follow the Rules of the Road - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;47720385]Nonono, we don't have the infrastructure for having "autonomous vehicle only" roads everywhere. You would need to lay entire new roads in a LOT of places to be able to ban manual vehicle driving on the same lanes as autonomous vehicles, as people have been suggesting.[/QUOTE] Manual driven vehicles should be allowed to drive in the same lanes as an autonomous vehicle. Autonomous vehicles are able to keep themselves from causing an accident, but manually driven vehicles causing an accident with a self driven car is like any other collision. [QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;47720385] I understand this, but this won't be for another 30-40 years after they become the MAJORITY, not 30-40 years after they are introduced. It's not going to happen until LATE in our lifetimes, if it happens in our lifetimes at all.[/QUOTE] It's coming faster than you think. I understand it's not like as soon as 2020 hits autonomous vehicles will be the majority, but I do think it will happen in our lifetime.

[QUOTE=wakeboarderCWB;47720447]Manual driven vehicles should be allowed to drive in the same lanes as an autonomous vehicle. Autonomous vehicles are able to keep themselves from causing an accident, but manually driven vehicles causing an accident with a self driven car is like any other collision. [/QUOTE] That's what I'm saying. The only difference is that the person in the manually driven vehicle will most likely be put at fault regardless. [QUOTE]It's coming faster than you think. I understand it's not like as soon as 2020 hits autonomous vehicles will be the majority, but I do think it will happen in our lifetime.[/QUOTE] Meh, I'm not so sure. It could, and it couldn't. All depends on the population.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47720445]If they end up getting banned, it's for the general safety of the public. I'm all for personal freedoms, but you don't get to infringe on other people. Accidents happen, they are literally inevitable. If you avoid that by pulling human input out of the situation on highways or other such mass volume traffic flows then you can save a lot of lives. Obviously doing that is just wrong and you should just keep yelling at us how we're all evil authoritarians trying to stop you from doing your thing. Nope. I think most people who've said ban driver input have usually put a caveat to that such as limiting that rule to highways or such. Motorcycles are factually speaking the most dangerous form of transportation. Everyone who wants to make that decision should make it for themselves, but unlike many personal freedom issues, this one directly impacts other people as cars are almost exclusively traveling near other cars, and people. Other issues are different in that they're purely issues of self. This isn't.[/QUOTE] Why highways specifically? Statistically, highways are safer than towns. Hell, the german Autobahn has sections with no speed limit at all and it's one of the safest roads on the planet. Also, accidents happen but they're not exactly inevitable. It's inevitable that they will happen, but their causes can be mitigated in several ways, one of which, in the case of the US, might start by ceasing to hand out driving licenses as if they're as natural a right as water, by actually giving people correct formation and make driving tests a little more complicated than a drive around the block like you see in some places. That alone would make a huge difference. Even here in Europe, things could be better. I don't know why we don't test for things like reaction time. If we treated driving as seriously as we do piloting aircraft, I'm willing to bet we would see a bigger impact on road safety than if 50% of the population started using self-driving cars.

[QUOTE=343N;47720407]not if they're electric[/QUOTE] Self-driving cars would be amazing for people who live in apartments and have nowhere to charge their electric car. When you don't need it, it buggers off to a central charging point.

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;47719222]Do you think self driving cars will be glitch free, that THEY can see everything? if you say yes, you're wrong. They can't predict everything, they can't see everything no matter how hard you try. Something will always happen, something will always fault, and there will always be crashes. Even with self driving cars, I don't think deaths from driving will go down much. Planes pretty much fly themselves and they crash too, even with a human behind the stick to correct it. And that's not a very good example. I'm not going to fucking drive into a crowd of pedestrians.[/QUOTE] Planes aren't a good example because (A) human error is still one of the biggest issues with aircraft, and (B) a plane doesn't have the option to just stop safely when it runs into something it can't handle, or something breaks. And yes, self-driving cars will never be perfect, nothing is ever perfect, but they are already far closer to being perfect than human drivers. They can already see more, and react quicker, than any human possibly could. More to the point, if every car on the road was self-driving, one of the biggest variables on road--other vehicles--would have the uncertainty greatly reduced. Pedestrians, and wildlife, will still be a danger, but again a self-driving car can see more and react quicker than anything else. Also, to the "deaths won't drop much"; deaths, and crashes in general (you don't have to die to have your life fucked up), from people driving under the influence will be completely removed if self-driving cars are all that exist (and fully manual control isn't an option). The same goes for crashes caused by people driving while tired, perhaps even distracted as, if you get a phone call (for example) the car could just take over driving and you can answer the phone.

[QUOTE=DaMastez;47720588]Planes aren't a good example because (A) human error is still one of the biggest issues with aircraft, and (B) a plane doesn't have the option to just stop safely when it runs into something it can't handle, or something breaks. And yes, self-driving cars will never be perfect, nothing is ever perfect, but they are already far closer to being perfect than human drivers. They can already see more, and react quicker, than any human possibly could. More to the point, if every car on the road was self-driving, one of the biggest variables on road--other vehicles--would have the uncertainty greatly reduced. Pedestrians, and wildlife, will still be a danger, but again a self-driving car can see more and react quicker than anything else. Also, to the "deaths won't drop much"; deaths, and crashes in general (you don't have to die to have your life fucked up), from people driving under the influence will be completely removed if self-driving cars are all that exist (and fully manual control isn't an option). The same goes for crashes caused by people driving while tired, perhaps even distracted as, if you get a phone call (for example) the car could just take over driving and you can answer the phone.[/QUOTE] I'm not arguing against assisted driving like this, i'm arguing against banning manual driving.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47720557]Self-driving cars would be amazing for people who live in apartments and have nowhere to charge their electric car. When you don't need it, it buggers off to a central charging point.[/QUOTE] Can you imagine how congested those would be in a place where 90% of people drive electric?

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47720312]ban driving on public roads and fucking ruin everything[/quote] [QUOTE=FetusFondler;47719180][quote]Too bad, because sooner or later all passenger cars will be automated.[/quote]This reads literally like something a grade schooler would say. "Cars will be automated and you can't do nothing, nah nah naah nah naaah naaah!"[/quote] I'll be honest, that statement makes you sound like what you were criticizing. [QUOTE=FetusFondler;47720312] Besides, your dream of having roads with no manual vehicles whatsoever is not feasable because some service vehicles i.e. police cars have more complex functions that may require more finesse than fiddling with a computer telling the car what to do can give you. Not every vehicle on the road has going from A to B as a purpose. [/quote] Really the best option, which solves both the issue you brought up above (some vehicles aren't just for driving from point to point), and the issue of some people like to just go out and drive, is for self-driving cars to support a "assisted driving mode", where the car keeps you within safe limits, but otherwise lets you drive as you wish. [quote]And this isn't even talking about third world nations where proper signage might not exist for a self-driving car to make judgements. Oh, and unless you are able to retrofit self-driving into cars from the 80's and 90's you are shit out of luck too.[/QUOTE] You don't see third world limitations in other areas, such as environmental protection or sanitation holding back first world countries, why would this be any different? Besides, it's clear most people, when they are talking about banning driving aren't referring to the world, they are referring to the society they live in, which for most people on this forum is a first world country.

[QUOTE=FetusFondler;47720644]Can you imagine how congested those would be in a place where 90% of people drive electric?[/QUOTE] By the time self driving cars are at a point where this is a consideration, electric cars will probably be the majority and there'll be powered parking spaces everywhere.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47720684]By the time self driving cars are at a point where this is a consideration, electric cars will probably be the majority and there'll be powered parking spaces everywhere.[/QUOTE] Assuming the oil companies ever let electric cars out from under their thumbs

I like how no one has retorted my original critique of current tech futures.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;47720557]Self-driving cars would be amazing for people who live in apartments and have nowhere to charge their electric car. When you don't need it, it buggers off to a central charging point.[/QUOTE] like a giant roomba

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;47712747]They will be busy waiting for a cyclist who can't make up his mind while I drive my sports car away from him.[/QUOTE] Holy shit this post [editline]14th May 2015[/editline] I'm all for self-driven cars except I don't think the government should have the ability to control your car remotely in any fashion -- and I don't see any way they won't.

[QUOTE=geel9;47721394]Holy shit this post [editline]14th May 2015[/editline] I'm all for self-driven cars except I don't think the government should have the ability to control your car remotely in any fashion -- and I don't see any way they won't.[/QUOTE] You think a corporation is any better? We already have dealers turning off people's cars including one case in the middle of the fucking highway.

[QUOTE=Swilly;47724654]We already have dealers turning off people's cars including one case in the middle of the fucking highway.[/QUOTE] Wasn't that case the one that was shown to be impossible, since the remote disabling can only prevent the engine from starting and can't do anything once the engine is running?

[QUOTE=Swilly;47721311]I like how no one has retorted my original critique of current tech futures.[/QUOTE] Presumably you're referring to: [QUOTE=Swilly;47713306]Its not so much the benefits. Its the negatives. The FBI has voiced worries that self driving cars bring in a new series of issues such as if blackhats taking control of cars and causing issues. I'm worried about the privacy, removal of human control which will inevitably become completely and the fact we've done zero research into what this could possibly mean for society at large. Just like we have done fuck all in the terms of research and theories around Artificial Intelligence, Cybernetics, Genetic Manipulation, Virtual Reality. We're moving so fast that I feel like we're just going to eventually got caught in dysoptic cyberpunk actual future because we've taken zero care in making sure the steps we're doing will not harm us.[/QUOTE] Cars, among a range of other things, are being filled with more and more computer parts and computer control every year. Even without self-driving cars, cars will still be at threat from cyber attacks. The rest of your post is concerns over the impact of AI driving cars or something; a self driving car, and modern day AI in general, isn't "intelligent" in the same way a human is. It's a very very complex machine processing data and using that data to make decisions using some algorithm(s). Some might argue humans are just that, but computers don't yet have near the processing power of the human brain and current AI don't have general intelligence; AI that can solve specific problems very very well exist, but AI that can solve any problem without prior knowledge don't. In reality driving isn't that complex really; the "problem domain" the AI has to deal with is small; roads are made for cars and for people, they follow sets of standardized rules, and are generally just quite simple. Not to say self-driving cars aren't feats of engineering and AI, they just aren't this "magical" or super-intelligent thing.

[QUOTE=Swilly;47724654]You think a corporation is any better? We already have dealers turning off people's cars including one case in the middle of the fucking highway.[/QUOTE] ...which furthers my point?

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;47720238]Stop any vehicle from being able to move unless seatbelts are fastened. This will reduce a lot of fatalities. [/QUOTE] I would actually be fine with this. Only issue is ice roads and medical conditions, to name a few cases, where seatbelts would actively endanger the driver in case of an accident. If you managed to exempt those cases somehow, I'd be happy with this. Would be annoying if I had to put it on for tiny adjustments (someone asks me to move my car a few feet or something), but worth it.