Bitcoin virtual currency hits (ALL-TIME) record high after exchange deal - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Axznma;40068078]Bitcoin: The poor mans stock market. It's a shame the currency has no world value, and never will with the ease in which it's obtained.[/QUOTE] Back before this years explosion, the bitcoin price was pretty closely linked to the power cost incurred by mining them on a GPU. The only other real world factors that would determine the price as far as I can think of would be the unwillingness to have the patience to mine, or unwillingness to buy and configure the necessary hardware. Therefore, the lazier people are and the more they want them on the spot, the higher the price will trend. Since bitcoin still has plenty of room to expand on a global scale, then this trend could safely continue for quite a while, though not necessarily at this pace. Not to mention mtgox is rapidly falling behind with verifying new accounts, last I heard they had a queue of around 6000.

I had 10 bitcoins that I bought for £30 several months ago. Sold them all shortly afterwards. Shit. edit - Do we have any idea how high the price will go before it drops/levels out?

Just got a bitcoin wallet, 0 bitcoins! My laptop won't mine so it isn't really worth it.

I'm really kicking myself for not throwing some money into this months ago. I could be rich.

brace yourselves [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/cTtKfxF.png[/IMG]

If bitcoins drop back down to a pittance I might pop 30 or 40 bucks into them and see what happens

I made a thread over in GD.

[QUOTE=mblunk;40069930]Back before this years explosion, the bitcoin price was pretty closely linked to the power cost incurred by mining them on a GPU. The only other real world factors that would determine the price as far as I can think of would be the unwillingness to have the patience to mine, or unwillingness to buy and configure the necessary hardware. Therefore, the lazier people are and the more they want them on the spot, the higher the price will trend. Since bitcoin still has plenty of room to expand on a global scale, then this trend could safely continue for quite a while, though not necessarily at this pace. Not to mention mtgox is rapidly falling behind with verifying new accounts, last I heard they had a queue of around 6000.[/QUOTE] The price of the currency means nothing because it has no [I][U]value[/U][/I]. It's similar in concept to having a billion gold in an MMO. You can buy anything in the game you want; but you're not buying a house with it and you're not going to convince someone to establish multi-billion dollar trade agreements with you for it because the rest of the major interests place no value in it. Oil barons won't deal in Bitcoin, the food industry won't deal in Bitcoin -- all other major interests will not deal in it. How many other ways do I need to explain such a basic reality. It has no [I]world[/I] value, and until it does the currency is worthless to anyone wanting to make a high investment return; which is everyone. As I've already said the ease in which it allows the poor to play the system will prevent it from ever being used by major interests, and therefore prevent it from ever being a currency worth a damn -- let alone topping the dollar in value. To call it a pipe-dream is a dishonor to the term. Such gross misunderstandings like this is truly telling of this generations grasp of the financial side of life. Of course for that matter the last generation too, as was most evident in 2008.

[QUOTE=Axznma;40077490]The price of the currency means nothing because it has no [I][U]value[/U][/I]. It's similar in concept to having a billion gold in an MMO. You can buy anything in the game you want; but you're not buying a house with it and you're not going to convince someone to establish multi-billion dollar trade agreements with you for it because the rest of the major interests place no value in it. Oil barons won't deal in Bitcoin, the food industry won't deal in Bitcoin -- all other major interests will not deal in it. How many other ways do I need to explain such a basic reality. It has no [I]world[/I] value, and until it does the currency is worthless to anyone wanting to make a high investment return; which is everyone. As I've already said the ease in which it allows the poor to play the system will prevent it from ever being used by major interests, and therefore prevent it from ever being a currency worth a damn -- let alone topping the dollar in value. To call it a pipe-dream is a dishonor to the term. Such gross misunderstandings like this is truly telling of this generations grasp of the financial side of life. Of course for that matter the last generation too, as was most evident in 2008.[/QUOTE] yes but large amount of narcotics have real value. which you can easily aquire and sell for cash. that;s why they;re even enstill here, now it's just gambling. anyone loan me 0.40btc for paypal? [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] blockchain have fucked up [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] this tit at bitbargain doesn't seem to want my business even though he's charging a fuck ton on top, well screw that cunt. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] wow nobody is online on that site, i hope that tought that cunt that time is money. someone here must have 0.41btc? uk bank transfer or paypal? plus commission of course?

You can sell all your TF2 items for Bitcoins, so do it now.

[QUOTE=meppers;40075010]brace yourselves [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/cTtKfxF.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] and here we go.

no worries all sorted. thank you everyone except dwarfy who i hope falls and doesn't hurt himself that badly.... but that dumb rating. my god it cut me deep. so i wish upon you a sprained ankle. not too bad, tennisball size. enough to keep you out of action for a week whilst you think of a suitable apology.

2x5K trades pushed the value down for a moment but it's up again.

[QUOTE=Axznma;40077490]The price of the currency means nothing because it has no [I][U]value[/U][/I]. It's similar in concept to having a billion gold in an MMO. You can buy anything in the game you want; but you're not buying a house with it and you're not going to convince someone to establish multi-billion dollar trade agreements with you for it because the rest of the major interests place no value in it. Oil barons won't deal in Bitcoin, the food industry won't deal in Bitcoin -- all other major interests will not deal in it. How many other ways do I need to explain such a basic reality. It has no [I]world[/I] value, and until it does the currency is worthless to anyone wanting to make a high investment return; which is everyone. As I've already said the ease in which it allows the poor to play the system will prevent it from ever being used by major interests, and therefore prevent it from ever being a currency worth a damn -- let alone topping the dollar in value. To call it a pipe-dream is a dishonor to the term. Such gross misunderstandings like this is truly telling of this generations grasp of the financial side of life. Of course for that matter the last generation too, as was most evident in 2008.[/QUOTE] Has no value? For starters, and I would expect you know this before trying to make a post that sounds like you know what's going on, value is subjective - what has value to me doesn't necessarily have value to you, and vice versa. The price on the exchanges represents the value of that which is being traded to those interested enough to have entered the market in the first place, currently $92 and rising. Bitcoins may very well be worthless to you, and that's fine and dandy, but they're still worth nearly $100 to people who got over the fact that they're not a state-backed currency. Which means they're worth $100 to you, assuming you would be willing to go through the process of trading them and assuming you had any. There is no such thing as "world" value, due to the above. While currencies are a method of objectifying value so we don't have to barter like cavemen, even currencies themselves aren't valued the same amount by everyone, for example $100 is probably worth a lot more to a homeless than a multimillionaire, in the sense that the homeless would be willing to jump through more hoops to get it. Some people are more willing to jump through hoops than others to get bitcoin too, but as the barriers to entry drop and adoption increases, it becomes more and more easy, and after all, that's one of bitcoin's primary features; that it could hardly be easier to send money across the internet. Those who were willing to jump through those hoops in 2009 and 2010 when bitcoin first launched are being compensated for their efforts generously, especially if they were good about watching the market conditions. Although, I found it absolutely hilarious you say you can't buy a house with bitcoin, because guess what, [b][url=http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2013/03/man-lists-bungalow-for-bitcoins/]you can.[/url][/b] I'm not even going to entertain the thought of your conspiracy theories about "playing the system." The government is already trying to regulate digital currencies, and it has been and will continue to be a waste of time due to the utterly anonymous nature of bitcoin when used as intended - generating a new, random address for every transaction. As for topping the dollar in value, it already has by two orders of magnitude?! I admire your boldness, but you need to get over yourself, because being the spokeperson for the ignorant doesn't make you any more informed. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Mike Tyson;40079840]and here we go.[/QUOTE] it already recovered [img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gjCjVLNe-BE/UVV2h_5K8kI/AAAAAAAAJrU/xd8QumfzBZ4/s0/chart.png[/img] [editline]a[/editline] Scout/jeep, you're not doing much to defend your fellow ignorant here.

snip

[QUOTE=Lazore;39746492]mining bitcoins is a dick. managed to get 0.6 over a week, though i guess the electric bill is higher than that.[/QUOTE] All the cool kids have a set electric bill that doesn't change with power use.

[QUOTE=joe588;40079717]yes but large amount of narcotics have real value. which you can easily aquire and sell for cash. that;s why they;re even enstill here, now it's just gambling.[/QUOTE] Oh, I see. Bitcoins are a sustainable currency because they're backed by illicit narcotics. I can't see any ways this could go horribly wrong.

[QUOTE=catbarf;40083076]Oh, I see. Bitcoins are a sustainable currency because they're backed by illicit narcotics. I can't see any ways this could go horribly wrong.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man[/url]

[QUOTE=mblunk;40083105][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man[/URL][/QUOTE] Please tell me how the hell what I just said is a straw man. A straw man isn't just an argument you don't like. [quote=Axznma]The price of the currency means nothing because it has no value. It's similar in concept to having a billion gold in an MMO. [/quote] [quote=joe588]yes but large amount of narcotics have real value. which you can easily aquire and sell for cash.[/quote] Care to point out which part of that isn't 'Bitcoins have real value because they can be backed by narcotics'?

[QUOTE=catbarf;40083172]Please tell me how the hell what I just said is a straw man. A straw man isn't just an argument you don't like. Care to point out which part of that isn't 'Bitcoins have real value because they can be backed by narcotics'?[/QUOTE] It's a straw man because bitcoin is not backed by drugs, nor is it backed by any other physical object, just like the USD, Euro, GBP... the difference is that it's not backed by a government either. That doesn't matter. As long as people continue to accept it as payment, it has value. That's the definition of a currency. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] Some people will continue to reject bitcoin as long as they live, but that won't stop it from becoming increasingly meaningful to the growing number of people who are interested every day.

[QUOTE=mblunk;40083231]Some people will continue to reject bitcoin as long as they live, but that won't stop it from becoming increasingly meaningful to [b]the growing number of people who are interested every day.[/b][/QUOTE] People who buy drugs, people who think they can make a quick buck on speculation, and libertarian die-hards? Who else should be interested in what amounts to a proxy for the USD?

[QUOTE=catbarf;40083806]People who buy drugs, people who think they can make a quick buck on speculation, and libertarian die-hards? Who else should be interested in what amounts to a proxy for the USD?[/QUOTE] People who want to put the capabilities given to us by technology to use in ways that make life easier. Which is a sweeping majority of the population, or at least Facepunch population given by the sample sized comprised of the last dozen pages of this thread. Needless to say, you don't have to be a druggie, investor, or libertarian to use bitcoin. Those people were just willing to jump through more hoops to get started with it, but that doesn't mean it has to be where it ends, especially if global interest continues increasing at this pace. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] If you haven't noticed, these straw men of yours don't hold up very well. Why don't you try to convince me on something that is a real threat to the system, like the probability of a government or company pulling a 51% attack?

[QUOTE=mblunk;40083886]People who want to put the capabilities given to us by technology to use in ways that make life easier. Which is a sweeping majority of the population, or at least Facepunch population given by the sample sized comprised of the last dozen pages of this thread. Needless to say, you don't have to be a druggie, investor, or libertarian to use bitcoin. Those people were just willing to jump through more hoops to get started with it, but that doesn't mean it has to be where it ends, especially if global interest continues increasing at this pace.[/QUOTE] You didn't answer my question at all. Why should anyone else besides the groups I mentioned care about a currency that is essentially slaved to USD and has extremely limited commercial applications and is easy to scam in conversion? What can an ordinary person do with Bitcoin that makes it attractive as a currency? Why should someone use it over established online transaction models using real currency? [QUOTE=mblunk;40083886]If you haven't noticed, these straw men of yours don't hold up very well. [/QUOTE] I'm convinced now that you don't know what a straw man is. I don't have to put words in anyone's mouth. When someone else says that Bitcoin has real value because you can exchange it for illegal drugs and sell them, that's not a straw man. When I ask you why normal people aside from the obvious proponents should be interested, that sure as hell isn't a straw man. Try using an argument instead of complaining that I'm being unfair.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Currency[/url] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_currency[/url] Now shut yer mouths, Bitcoins are a legit currency purely because it managed to get caught on by a group of people. And it's slowly gaining more and more traction, otherwise it would've died a long time ago. Obviously it has [I]less-than-legit[/I] uses, but so does every currency that's (almost) impossible to trace back to previous holders of it. And the reason it caught on is because it is (or was, since you now need special hardware for it to be worthwhile) possible to generate more currency, but while you do that, you're furthermore increasing the secure nature of it, which is the other reason it caught on.

[QUOTE=catbarf;40084213]You didn't answer my question at all. Why should anyone else besides the groups I mentioned care about a currency that is essentially slaved to USD and has extremely limited commercial applications and is easy to scam in conversion? What can an ordinary person do with Bitcoin that makes it attractive as a currency? Why should someone use it over established online transaction models using real currency? I'm convinced now that you don't know what a straw man is. I don't have to put words in anyone's mouth. When someone else says that Bitcoin has real value because you can exchange it for illegal drugs and sell them, that's not a straw man. When I ask you why normal people aside from the obvious proponents should be interested, that sure as hell isn't a straw man. Try using an argument instead of complaining that I'm being unfair.[/QUOTE] I certainly did answer the question, did you bother to read it or are you just ignoring it because I made a point you can't refute? The benefits are that you don't have people like American Express, Visa, Mastercard, etc. charging fees on sellers to accept their plastic, and you don't have fees on consumers who are just trying to access their money. Transactions are also irreversible, so sellers don't have to worry about chargebacks. This is in addition to the anonymity, simplicity, complete control you have over your funds, and deflationary value system that attracts your targets of choice. You're making straw men because you're playing dumb and portaying bitcoin as something it isn't. Do drug users, investors and libertarians use bitcoin? Yes. Do people who are none of those use it too? Yes, which I already addressed in that part of my post that you seem to have ignored. I've used bitcoin to buy about 6 things from amazon through a service that accepts your coins and orders your items to your house for you. I'm not a drug user, investor, or libertarian. There goes your entire over-simplified view of the system as a whole.

[QUOTE=mblunk;40084469]I certainly did answer the question, did you bother to read it or are you just ignoring it because I made a point you can't refute? The benefits are that you don't have people like American Express, Visa, Mastercard, etc. charging fees on sellers to accept their plastic, and you don't have fees on consumers who are just trying to access their money. Transactions are also irreversible, so sellers don't have to worry about chargebacks. This is in addition to the anonymity, simplicity, complete control you have over your funds, and deflationary value system that attracts your targets of choice. You're making straw men because you're playing dumb and portaying bitcoin as something it isn't. Do drug users, investors and libertarians use bitcoin? Yes. Do people who are none of those use it too? Yes, which I already addressed in that part of my post that you seem to have ignored. I've used bitcoin to buy about 6 things from amazon through a service that accepts your coins and orders your items to your house for you. I'm not a drug user, investor, or libertarian. There goes your entire over-simplified view of the system as a whole.[/QUOTE] Good ol' paper money is also popular with criminals, as long as they haven't been marked, or their mark hasn't been registered. Bitcoins are taking bits from both "digital" currencies and "traditional" currencies, and combining it into a currency that pretty much guarantees privacy and anonymity.

[QUOTE=Van-man;40084527]Good ol' paper money is also popular with criminals, as long as they haven't been marked, or their mark hasn't been registered. Bitcoins are taking bits from both "digital" currencies and "traditional" currencies, and combining it into a currency that pretty much guarantees privacy and anonymity.[/QUOTE] When used correctly, of course. [editline]29th March 2013[/editline] Which is the beauty of it all, really. Use it how you want, including new ways you can't use any other currency. You could just as well go around publishing a public address for donations and anyone could look up how much you've gotten, or you could be constantly generating new ones or posting that donation address anonymously.

[QUOTE=mblunk;40084469]I certainly did answer the question, did you bother to read it or are you just ignoring it because I made a point you can't refute?[/QUOTE] You made the vague statements that people like taking advantage of the benefits of technology, and that normal people use Bitcoin too. You didn't say what those advantages are at all. If you think this is an erroneous straw man argument or something please point out even one benefit to Bitcoin that you named in your six-sentence essay of a previous post. I'll wait. [QUOTE=mblunk;40084469]The benefits are that you don't have people like American Express, Visa, Mastercard, etc. charging fees on sellers to accept their plastic, and you don't have fees on consumers who are just trying to access their money. Transactions are also irreversible, so sellers don't have to worry about chargebacks. This is in addition to the anonymity, simplicity, complete control you have over your funds, and deflationary value system that attracts your targets of choice.[/QUOTE] Chargebacks were instituted as a means of protecting consumers against fraudulent activity. They're a service, not a liability, and when there is absolutely no protection against scams in an anonymous transaction service using the Internet of all things as a base I have a hard time seeing this as a secure medium for long-term economic growth. Not requiring an expensive middle man to handle a charge is useful and I'll admit a big positive, but despite the fees on electronic transactions, most businesses don't accept cash sent through the mail. In the end stability and security for both parties is commonly seen as worth a small fee. If you have to worry about being scammed just when you're converting to a 'real-world' currency, there is clearly a security issue here. Given that the current prices are being driven by a worrying degree of speculation, I can see this being much more likely to crash or at least maintain a low level of activity for anonymous transactions than to take off and become the de facto new currency of the Internet. [QUOTE=mblunk;40084469]You're making straw men because you're playing dumb and portaying bitcoin as something it isn't. Do drug users, investors and libertarians use bitcoin? Yes. Do people who are none of those use it too? Yes, which I already addressed in that part of my post that you seem to have ignored. I've used bitcoin to buy about 6 things from amazon through a service that accepts your coins and orders your items to your house for you. I'm not a drug user, investor, or libertarian. There goes your entire over-simplified view of the system as a whole.[/QUOTE] You accuse me of having an over-simplified view and imply that at some point I said only drug users, investors, or libertarians would ever use it, and say I'm the one creating straw men? Either you aren't actually reading my posts before replying or you're engaging in some astounding hypocrisy. And could you please stop with the asinine comments like [quote]If you haven't noticed, these straw men of yours don't hold up very well[/quote] and [quote]There goes your entire over-simplified view of the system as a whole[/quote] and [quote]because I made a point you can't refute[/quote]? If your argument isn't bullshit you don't need to declare victory at the end of every post.

[QUOTE=catbarf;40084903]You made the vague statements that people like taking advantage of the benefits of technology, and that normal people use Bitcoin too. You didn't say what those advantages are at all. If you think this is an erroneous straw man argument or something please point out even one benefit to Bitcoin that you named in your six-sentence essay of a previous post. I'll wait. Chargebacks were instituted as a means of protecting consumers against fraudulent activity. They're a service, not a liability, and when there is absolutely no protection against scams in an anonymous transaction service using the Internet of all things as a base I have a hard time seeing this as a secure medium for long-term economic growth. Not requiring an expensive middle man to handle a charge is useful and I'll admit a big positive, but despite the fees on electronic transactions, most businesses don't accept cash sent through the mail. In the end stability and security for both parties is commonly seen as worth a small fee. If you have to worry about being scammed just when you're converting to a 'real-world' currency, there is clearly a security issue here. Given that the current prices are being driven by a worrying degree of speculation, I can see this being much more likely to crash or at least maintain a low level of activity for anonymous transactions than to take off and become the de facto new currency of the Internet. [b]You accuse me of having an over-simplified view and imply that at some point I said only drug users, investors, or libertarians would ever use it[/b], and say I'm the one creating straw men? Either you aren't actually reading my posts before replying or you're engaging in some astounding hypocrisy. And could you please stop with the asinine comments like and and ? If your argument isn't bullshit you don't need to declare victory at the end of every post.[/QUOTE] right here: [QUOTE=catbarf;40083806](in response to growing interest:) People who buy drugs, people who think they can make a quick buck on speculation, and libertarian die-hards? Who else should be interested in what amounts to a proxy for the USD?[/QUOTE] Alright, let's collect all of bitcoin's advantages in one place: • Lack of fees • No reliance on any single point of failure like a government (or company in the case of other digital currencies/commodities that have value, like Second Life lindens or TF2 refined metals) • As anonymous or public as you want it to be • Instant (in terms of the initial propagation, verification can take several minutes though if you want to make sure the transaction is "real" and committed to the blockchain) • Extremely simple in terms of dealing with purely bitcoins; you can scan QR codes or use NFC or any future technology capable of working with the internet • You have complete control of your funds, you can use an online wallet for ease of access or a paper wallet for complete security Features that can be advantages or disadvantages: • No chargebacks • Deflationary system, we don't know how well they work in the real world (seems to work fine so far though) Disadvantages (which are all temporary so far): • Reliance on the security of exchanges, and the monopoly that is mtgox, if you want to trade them for more established currencies • Bitcoin robbery not taken as seriously by officials Anything you'd like to add? Sorry for the rudeness.

[QUOTE=mblunk;40085051] Alright, let's collect all of bitcoin's advantages in one place: • Lack of fees [/QUOTE] I have to contest this, part of bitcoin mining includes the verification of transactions with fees given to miners to do this in a quick manner. All miners can choose to ignore transactions without fees thus extending the actual real-time it takes for the funds to transfer, which goes against being instant or lacking fees. Once all coins are mined this would become the way miners earn more bitcoins, meaning it would simply be a waste of their time to process transactions without the 'finders fee'.