Bitcoin virtual currency hits (ALL-TIME) record high after exchange deal

[mblunk]

[QUOTE=Lazor;39748115]what you're describing is a commodity, not a currency[/QUOTE]

There's actually been some considerations by the community to call bitcoins a "good"/commodity rather than a currency, to avoid legal troubles.. not that it's going to make a difference to anyone with the power and will to regulate it. Beyond that there's not much distinction between the terms in the context of BTC.

[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;39747811]sell off your monopoly money before there are no more fools who still believe it's worth something[/QUOTE]

Most currencies in use in the world today, including the USD and Euro, are fiat currencies, which means they're all monopoly money and only worth something because people pretend it is. They're not backed by precious metals anymore, they don't cost what they're worth to produce, they're just pieces of paper with numbers on them meant to signify objective value. Sorry to break it to you.

[Crest]

[QUOTE=Killuah;39748110]This is like saying a river is not tied to its bed because water is not bound to flow in a determined direction.
You are not thinking this abstract enough.

The concept of a "currency" creates centers because it needs an interface to the "goods" to determine its worth, whether it's part of it's surrounding design or not. That interface will always be a center. Right now that interface , just by unconcious vote of majority(of users), is the dollar.

It's self organizing.[/QUOTE]

Except the value of a currency is not determined by other currencies. It is determined by the demand and people's expectations of the currency.

Your point about interface is only relevant while the currency is young. As we have more and more businesses accepting bitcoins directly, there is less and less need for exchange. The fact that the exchange is prevalent only means that it's currently a relatively isolated currency.

Your point about being tied to the dollar reminds me of MMO gold being bought and sold. Is in-game gold tied to the US dollar, not really, the price changes all the time. But to use it outside of the game, yea you need to move it into the US dollar.

But take a game that starts out new, has a few thousand players, and most gold is simply gotten through quests, the more players in this case, the more gold goes into the system. Exchange rates will stay relatively stable. Let's say 100 gold for a dollar from some gold selling site.

But what happens when you let gold drop from loot and mobs. Now the amount of gold entering this MMO economy is more independant of the players. Gold is much easier to get, much more gold in players hands. Now gold is not as big of a deal to get, it's value drops. It's inflating. Now it's maybe 1000-2000 gold per dollar if you were to buy it.

The value is not dictated by the exchange rate. It's determined by what people think it's worth.

[Lazor]

[QUOTE=Reader;39748152]Investigated by police? There is absolutely no way they can track down buyers.[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-02/01/silk-road-crackdown[/url]

[Crest]

[QUOTE=Lazor;39748115]what you're describing is a commodity, not a currency[/QUOTE]

Currency is a object that has very little intrinsic value, but rather the value is in the expectation and trust in it. If I were to buy that shirt with the expectations to sell it, it could be considered one. I was simply thinking up an example of a item that doesn't change but increases in value.

The idea that you need to get something for the exchange of a currency that is rapidly deflating seems silly to me. If you need to get into that market, then you need to.

[Reader]

[QUOTE=Lazor;39748167][url]http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-02/01/silk-road-crackdown[/url][/QUOTE]
It was caught on mail. Now how many people get busted everyday for drug dealing? Street Deal:Bust ratio is definitely much much higher than SR ratio.

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=Robbobin;39748157]This whole argument undermines the whole point of bitcoins. They're supposed to act as a alternative currency to the dollar; if you're presupposing that the dollar(/some other centralized currency) is the only currency of value of-fucking-course you'll reach this absurd conclusion.[/QUOTE]

I'm not presupposing. I am looking at what the implementation of the wonderful concept of a decentralized currency yields and that is a dollar replacement that, additionally, but also parallely to the dollar and every currency ever, makes people who gained a lot of it for almost no effort in the past a lot richer.

[Crest]

That's the problem with deflation, which is why it's not really all that good for an economy. You have people like yourself feeling like they were on the short end of the stick when they join the market.

As far as a currency goes for an economy, bitcoins is absolutely aweful. It's gaining value, so you don't want to spend it, you want to save it.

[Lazor]

[QUOTE=Reader;39748190]It was caught on mail. Now how many people get busted everyday for drug dealing? Street Deal:Bust ratio is definitely much much higher than SR ratio.[/QUOTE]

you're hilariously overconfident in the security of your major online drug trafficking website

[Mindtwistah]

[QUOTE=Lazor;39748142]when did i ever say i got them all from the same dealer? learn to read, dummy.

if you seriously think that silk road(which is definitely being investigated by the police, idiots) is the only way to get psychedelics then lol, just lol.[/QUOTE]

You didn't answer my question. What is so bad about SilkRoad when it has proven itself to be the safest online marketplace for buying and selling drugs? And why do you condemn it just because [B]you [/B]apparently have such an extremely good and developed dealers network? Not everyone are so well-connected you know.

And I don't think Silk Road is the only place to buy psychedelics (when have I ever claimed this) but it is extremely convenient as all drugs and dealers are gathered in one place and it has many things you would probably never find off the streets, and many more that your dealers might not have in stock.
Plus the product is often ([B]not always [/B]before you try to turn this against me) cheaper and purer than what you would find from dealers as it is open for competition and ratings by customers.

Also gods you are incredibly arrogant.

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=Brt5470;39748164]Except the value of a currency is not determined by other currencies. It is determined by the demand and people's expectations of the currency.

Your point about interface is only relevant while the currency is young. As we have more and more businesses accepting bitcoins directly, there is less and less need for exchange. The fact that the exchange is prevalent only means that it's currently a relatively isolated currency.
[/quote]

No that's wrong. You can't have bitcoin buying you 1 bread when you buy from bakery one and 10 breads when you buy from bakery 2. Well yes we can but then either one of them is fucked or they call each other and agree on a price or as a third option the market regulates the price but that needs a central to show current prices for everyone so people can adjust to changes quickly.

I think I'll call it a "stock market".

[quote]
Your point about being tied to the dollar reminds me of MMO gold being bought and sold. Is in-game gold tied to the US dollar, not really, the price changes all the time. But to use it outside of the game, yea you need to move it into the US dollar.

But take a game that starts out new, has a few thousand players, and most gold is simply gotten through quests, the more players in this case, the more gold goes into the system. Exchange rates will stay relatively stable. Let's say 100 gold for a dollar from some gold selling site.

But what happens when you let gold drop from loot and mobs. Now the amount of gold entering this MMO economy is more independant of the players. Gold is much easier to get, much more gold in players hands. Now gold is not as big of a deal to get, it's value drops. It's inflating. Now it's maybe 1000-2000 gold per dollar if you were to buy it.

The value is not dictated by the exchange rate. It's determined by what people think it's worth.[/QUOTE]

What do you think an exchange rate is if not a numerical measure for "what people think it's worth" ?

[Lazor]

[quote]Also gods you are incredibly arrogant.[/quote]

lol yep i'm the arrogant one, not the shitty poster that started this derail by acting like silkroad is literally the only play to get psychedelics

e: i'm done with this dumb argument before it gets any more shameful

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=Mindtwistah;39748243]You didn't answer my question. What is so bad about SilkRoad when it has proven itself to be the safest online marketplace for buying and selling drugs? And why do you condemn it just because [B]you [/B]apparently have such an extremely good and developed dealers network? Not everyone are so well-connected you know.

And I don't think Silk Road is the only place to buy psychedelics (when have I ever claimed this) but it is extremely convenient as all drugs and dealers are gathered in one place and it has many things you would probably never find off the streets, and many more that your dealers might not have in stock.
Plus the product is often ([B]not always [/B]before you try to turn this against me) cheaper and purer than what you would find from dealers as it is open for competition and ratings by customers.

Also gods you are incredibly arrogant.[/QUOTE]

It's almost like a centralized market or something, wow.

[mblunk]

[QUOTE=Killuah;39748269]It's almost like a centralized market or something, wow.[/QUOTE]

Markets by nature have to be centralized and organized, that's the whole point. Currencies do not. There is no conflict here.

[Mindtwistah]

[QUOTE=Lazor;39748265]lol yep i'm the arrogant one, not the shitty poster that started this derail by acting like silkroad is literally the only play to get psychedelics

e: i'm done with this dumb argument before it gets any more shameful[/QUOTE]

Wow you manage to avoid my question completely a second time. Good job.

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=mblunk;39748290]Markets by nature have to be centralized and organized, that's the whole point. Currencies do not. There is no conflict here.[/QUOTE]

Currencies do and I just posted why in the posts above you.

[mblunk]

[QUOTE=SPESSMEHREN;39748121]For everyone saying ZOMG I COULD BE RICH RIGHT NOW: do you really think you would be able to SELL your bitcoins right now?[/QUOTE]

Why wouldn't you? Just put in a sell order at the current asking price and you've completed a trade and sold your bitcoins, done.

[QUOTE=Killuah;39748377]Currencies do and I just posted why in the posts above you.[/QUOTE]

This one?

[QUOTE=Killuah;39747904]It is NOT decentralized. Bitcoins CAN NOT EXIST WITHOUT AN EXCHANGE CURRENCY.
And now Mega and a few others accept bitcoin. Now guess what determines prices? That's right, the dollar, or more specific: the trade value determined by the exchange sites. There you have your centrals.

"Using a dollar kind of avoids that benefit." That's why I said "flexible currency conversion".[/QUOTE]

Sure they can. There's an RPG game out there powered by bitcoins. Any bitcoin-bitcoin transaction is a transaction that happened without an exchange currency, there's no need for coins to be exchanged into a "real" currency to be valuable. You're not making a point.

[editline]28th February 2013[/editline]

I don't get how anyone can argue that bitcoin can't/shouldn't work when it's working better and better every day, going by the transaction volume.

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=mblunk;39748470]Why wouldn't you? Just put in a sell order at the current asking price and you've completed a trade and sold your bitcoins, done.

This one?

Sure they can. There's an RPG game out there powered by bitcoins. Any bitcoin-bitcoin transaction is a transaction that happened without an exchange currency, there's no need for coins to be exchanged into a "real" currency to be valuable. You're not making a point.

[editline]28th February 2013[/editline]

I don't get how anyone can argue that bitcoin can't/shouldn't work when it's working better and better every day, going by the transaction volume.[/QUOTE]

Because it's a short-sighted way of seeing it, refer to 2008 for real-world parallels.

And also it's not only that one post but quite a few of them. They also tackle your RPG example.

[mblunk]

[QUOTE=Killuah;39748501]Because it's a short-sighted way of seeing it, refer to 2008 for real-world parallels.

And also it's not only that one post but quite a few of them. They also tackle your RPG example.[/QUOTE]

I don't see what 2008 has to do with any of this.

[WishesForFishes]

I have a total of 3 whole bit coins.
Praise me.

[Killuah]

[QUOTE=mblunk;39748569]I don't see what 2008 has to do with any of this.[/QUOTE]

Banks.

[mblunk]

[QUOTE=Killuah;39748636]Banks.[/QUOTE]

Yes, and you don't have to deal with banks when using bitcoin, which is great.

[turing]

[QUOTE=SataniX;39748119]That's just under $30,000 for those who can't be bothered to calculate.[/QUOTE]

HOLY FUCK WHAT THE COCK ASFWATRAT

IM RICH

[VistaPOWA]

Oh man, back when Bitcoin was a really experimental and new thing (2009, I think), I thought I'd join, ran the miner for about 4 months while normally using the computer, I had like 11k BTC. I disabled the miner because I thought it was slowing my boot time. I formatted a few months later, forgot about saving the wallet, and Bitcoins in general, even. Back in those days thousands of BTC was worth a pizza.

fml now that I realize how much 11k BTC is. $370k. $370k. I could really use that money now.

[editline]28th February 2013[/editline]

When I say normal usage, read 24/7, I seeded a lot of linux distros back then.

[.Lain]

[QUOTE=VistaPOWA;39748821]Oh man, back when Bitcoin was a really experimental and new thing (2009, I think), I thought I'd join, ran the miner for about 4 months while normally using the computer, I had like 11k BTC. I disabled the miner because I thought it was slowing my boot time. I formatted a few months later, forgot about saving the wallet, and Bitcoins in general, even. Back in those days thousands of BTC was worth a pizza.

fml now that I realize how much 11k BTC is. $370k. $370k. I could really use that money now.

[editline]28th February 2013[/editline]

When I say normal usage, read 24/7, I seeded a lot of linux distros back then.[/QUOTE]
Back up your wallet to an incredibly safe storage medium. For example, a flash medium that you don't use.

[VistaPOWA]

It's a bit too late for that. Formatted from Vista to 7, formatted and put on clean copy of 7 when I gave my old computer to parents.

[KorJax]

[QUOTE=VistaPOWA;39748917]It's a bit too late for that. Formatted from Vista to 7, formatted and put on clean copy of 7 when I gave my old computer to parents.[/QUOTE]

Its allright, I seriously doubt you'd be able to find a buyer for all those btc anyways. People forget that you might have $300k of BTC laying around somewhere, but you have to actually sell ALL of that in order to get that, and I feel like it's very unlikely you'll manage to find someone (or several people) who are willing to buy 11k btc at the current market value any time soon before the prices drop again.

There's also the issue of the fact that in order to get the money there are considerable fees, and you have to go through third party exchanges (do they use PayPal for example?), which tend to have limits on how much money you can transfer per month.

Finally after a long time you might get all $330k in your bank account, which'll most definatly get you on the list to be audited because that is very suspicious looking for you to suddenly have $300k to the US government and banking agency that your account exists at.

[Eltro102]

[QUOTE=Reader;39748152]Investigated by police? There is absolutely no way they can track down buyers.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1107.4524.pdf"]nah[/URL]

[quote]Using an appropriate network representation, it is possible to associate many public-keys with each other, and with external identifying information.
With appropriate tools, the activity of known users can be observed in detail.
[U]This can be performed using a passive analysis only[/U][/quote]

[quote]Active analyses, where an interested party can potentially deploy 'marked' Bitcoins and collaborate
with other users can discover even more information. We also believe that
large centralized services such as the exchanges and wallet services are capable
of identifying and tracking considerable portions of user activity[/quote]

[.Lain]

[QUOTE=KorJax;39749057]Its allright, I seriously doubt you'd be able to find a buyer for all those btc anyways. People forget that you might have $300k of BTC laying around somewhere, but you have to actually sell ALL of that in order to get that, and I feel like it's very unlikely you'll manage to find someone (or several people) who are willing to buy 11k btc at the current market value any time soon before the prices drop again.

There's also the issue of the fact that in order to get the money there are considerable fees, and you have to go through third party exchanges (do they use PayPal for example?), which tend to have limits on how much money you can transfer per month.

Finally after a long time you might get all $330k in your bank account, which'll most definatly get you on the list to be audited because that is very suspicious looking for you to suddenly have $300k to the US government and banking agency that your account exists at.[/QUOTE]
Do it in parts then. Bitcoin value goes up and down, you just have to wait for the next opportunity to trade another part.

[mblunk]

[QUOTE=KorJax;39749057]Its allright, I seriously doubt you'd be able to find a buyer for all those btc anyways. People forget that you might have $300k of BTC laying around somewhere, but you have to actually sell ALL of that in order to get that, and I feel like it's very unlikely you'll manage to find someone (or several people) who are willing to buy 11k btc at the current market value any time soon before the prices drop again.

There's also the issue of the fact that in order to get the money there are considerable fees, and you have to go through third party exchanges (do they use PayPal for example?), which tend to have limits on how much money you can transfer per month.

Finally after a long time you might get all $330k in your bank account, which'll most definatly get you on the list to be audited because that is very suspicious looking for you to suddenly have $300k to the US government and banking agency that your account exists at.[/QUOTE]

Actually, you could trade all 11k at market price and still sell them for at least $30 USD each!

[img]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5hS-V857OHs/US-R3B2O1EI/AAAAAAAAI2s/xEaK9ygkjhQ/s0/accumulated_orderbook.png[/img]

Of course, you'll freak out everyone else on the exchange, but for $330k+?

Edit:

Actually, make that $357,000.

[img]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_zr-ZIZZiPw/US-TI7XzM7I/AAAAAAAAI20/UIV-Dv-NEZ0/s0/2013-02-28_12-25-55.png[/img]

Source: [url]http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/mtgoxUSD_depth.html[/url]

[Starpluck]

Most of the people in this thread that are attacking bitcoins aren't presenting anything meaningful. They're most likely bitter-fucks that are upset they didn't decide to buy some back then but instead wasted their time whining about how it's going to fail.

Bitcoin production has been halved, SilkRoad is getting extremely popular and more merchants are accepting bitcoin.
[QUOTE=Lazor;39748142]if you seriously think that silk road(which is definitely being investigated by the police, idiots) [/QUOTE]

Can you read? Someone who got caught trying to import drugs in the mail in Australia does not mean SilkRoad is getting "investigated" in the same sense you think it is. The DEA have said they have been investigating SilkRoad for more than two years, they've progressed [B]nowhere[/B] and probably never will.

I know you really enjoy arguing for the sake of it but you have no clue what you're saying and fail to understand the basic concepts of encryption.