President digs heels in, refuses to negotiate debt ceiling - Polidicks

Obama is saying we can't pay our bills if the debt celing isn't raised? Bull fucking horse shit. The federal government takes in around $35 billion a month. The debtors will be paid. A default is impossible unless Obama forces us into default. [QUOTE=Obama]If we don't raise the debt celing, entitlements wont be paid, veterans wont be paid[/QUOTE] Why? Entitlements are built into the budget, which Obama and the democrats haven't proposed a single once. Obama has spent, in 4 years, what Bush did in 8. Inherit debt my fucking ass.

explain how we can't default on our debts. printing money is not an answer.

[QUOTE=areolop;39229510]explain how we can't default on our debts. printing money is not an answer.[/QUOTE] Defaulting means we can no longer pay the minimum payment on our debt. Every month, the federal government takes in $35 billion. That is more than enough to pay the creditors. Raising the debt celing is raising the amount of spending. It's like raising the spending amount on a credit card - i.e how much you can borrow. So if you have enough money every month from your paycheck to pay your rent and utilities, ect, why would you put your bills on your credit card? If he's saying we can't afford the minimum payment on our debt, why would he want to increase the amount we can borrow? That would simply create more debt, which he claims we can't pay. The man is a liar and very manipulative. There can only be one answer: because Obama wants to spend more. You're right, printing money is not the answer, but Obama is doing it anyway. [B] edit: [/B][QUOTE=ojcoolj;39229050]Obama's done a pretty good job so far[/QUOTE] lol

[QUOTE=UziXxX;39229555]Defaulting means we can no longer pay the minimum payment on our debt. Every month, the federal government takes in $35 billion. That is more than enough to pay the creditors. Raising the debt celing is raising the amount of spending. It's like raising the spending amount on a credit card - i.e how much you can borrow. So if you have enough money every month from your paycheck to pay your rent and utilities, ect, why would you put your bills on your credit card? If he's saying we can't afford the minimum payment on our debt, why would he want to increase the amount we can borrow? That would simply create more debt, which he claims we can't pay. The man is a liar and very manipulative. There can only be one answer: because Obama wants to spend more. You're right, printing money is not the answer, but Obama is doing it anyway. [B] edit: [/B] lol[/QUOTE] You can't pay it off at the moment and you can't instantly change the budget, so you have to borrow more during the time it takes the country to budget itself to start producing a surplus again. Not raising the debt ceiling means either making drastic and sudden austerity measures or not being able to pay since the government legally can't exceed it's debt limit. What Obama is wanting to do is raise the amount of debt they can have first, and then focus on the budget, that way there's more time to debate it and it can be put it into effect over a longer time.

[QUOTE=Rents;39230236]What Obama is wanting to do is raise the amount of debt they can have first, and then focus on the budget, that way there's more time to debate it and it can be put it into effect over a longer time.[/QUOTE] The problem is, is that we've been through this before with Obama. He wants the debt celing raised, blames republicans, and promises to adress spending later. When is later? He's willing to adress spending, yet hasn't proposed a single cut that doesn't slash the hell out of the military.

hey guys lets all praise obama and say all bad things happen because republicans exist ok

[QUOTE=UziXxX;39230368]The problem is, is that we've been through this before with Obama. He wants the debt celing raised, blames republicans, and promises to adress spending later. When is later? He's willing to adress spending, yet hasn't proposed a single cut that doesn't slash the hell out of the military.[/QUOTE] The military needs the hell slashed out of it, the US is a big country and a big international power and all, but the spending on it is excessive given the economical problems the country has, the money would be much better spent on things that'd stimulate growth, mainly infrastructure and research programs. [editline]15th January 2013[/editline] Oh, and education, an unskilled workforce is no use to a first world nation.

[QUOTE=Rents;39230438]Oh, and education, an unskilled workforce is no use to a first world nation.[/QUOTE] aka people on welfare which has increased by 44% since Obama took office

[QUOTE=UziXxX;39230368]The problem is, is that we've been through this before with Obama. He wants the debt celing raised, blames republicans, and promises to adress spending later. When is later? He's willing to adress spending, yet hasn't proposed a single cut that doesn't slash the hell out of the military.[/QUOTE] Holy shit can you just stop Nobody here agrees with you He's a busy man, he has tons of things to address* before spending And you act as if addressing spending takes like a second, he can't magically fix whatever he wants

[QUOTE=ojcoolj;39230857]Holy shit can you just stop[/QUOTE] No, fuck you. [QUOTE=ojcoolj;39230857]Nobody here agrees with you[/QUOTE] So I should stop posting because you claim no one agress with me? Fuck off, tawt. [QUOTE=ojcoolj;39230857]He's a busy man[/QUOTE] Let's see, today on President Obama's schedule: 10:45 AM - The President and the Vice President receive the Presidential Daily Briefing 12:30 PM - The President and the Vice President meet for lunch You're right, how can he ever find time to do anything with such a filled schedule like that? By the his daily schedule can be found here: [URL]http://www.whitehouse.gov/schedule[/URL] [QUOTE=ojcoolj;39230857]And you act as if addressing spending takes like a second, he can't magically fix whatever he wants[/QUOTE] I didn't say it would take two seconds, but it would be nice to see an effort from a democratic party and Obama himself. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Megafan))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=laserguided;39226140]Democrats spent just as much on their campaign as republicans.[/QUOTE] Now that's just incorrect. Seriously. They didn't spend a fucking billion dollars on theirs.

Why would anyone immediately demand spending cuts after the fiscal cliff, where the whole problem was too much was being cut? Republicans remind of those kids in an FPS on a turret. They keep shooting until it overheats, and then they get fucked over because they can't fire back.

While the GOP is being pretty dumb, Obama is being dumb playing the whole "America needs to pay it's bills" Okay, well then America needs to stop signing up for shit it can't afford, and needs to stop services it doesn't need and can't afford. What about all those programs and subsidies that we are paying for? [quote]* Corporation for Public Broadcasting Subsidy — $445 million annual savings. * Save America’s Treasures Program — $25 million annual savings. * International Fund for Ireland — $17 million annual savings. * Legal Services Corporation — $420 million annual savings. * National Endowment for the Arts — $167.5 million annual savings. * National Endowment for the Humanities — $167.5 million annual savings. * Hope VI Program — $250 million annual savings. * Amtrak Subsidies — $1.565 billion annual savings. * Eliminate duplicative education programs — H.R. 2274 (in last Congress), authored by Rep. McKeon, eliminates 68 at a savings of $1.3 billion annually. * U.S. Trade Development Agency — $55 million annual savings. * Woodrow Wilson Center Subsidy — $20 million annual savings. * Cut in half funding for congressional printing and binding — $47 million annual savings. * John C. Stennis Center Subsidy — $430,000 annual savings. * Community Development Fund — $4.5 billion annual savings. * Heritage Area Grants and Statutory Aid — $24 million annual savings. * Cut Federal Travel Budget in Half — $7.5 billion annual savings * Trim Federal Vehicle Budget by 20% — $600 million annual savings. * Essential Air Service — $150 million annual savings. * Technology Innovation Program — $70 million annual savings. * Manufacturing Extension Partnership (MEP) Program — $125 million annual savings. * Department of Energy Grants to States for Weatherization — $530 million annual savings. * Beach Replenishment — $95 million annual savings. * New Starts Transit — $2 billion annual savings. * Exchange Programs for Alaska Natives, Native Hawaiians, and Their Historical Trading Partners in Massachusetts — $9 million annual savings * Intercity and High Speed Rail Grants — $2.5 billion annual savings. * Title X Family Planning — $318 million annual savings. * Appalachian Regional Commission — $76 million annual savings. * Economic Development Administration — $293 million annual savings. * Programs under the National and Community Services Act — $1.15 billion annual savings. * Applied Research at Department of Energy — $1.27 billion annual savings. * Freedom CAR and Fuel Partnership — $200 million annual savings. * Energy Star Program — $52 million annual savings. * Economic Assistance to Egypt — $250 million annually. * U.S. Agency for International Development — $1.39 billion annual savings. * General Assistance to District of Columbia — $210 million annual savings. * Subsidy for Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority — $150 million annual savings. * Presidential Campaign Fund — $775 million savings over ten years. * No funding for federal office space acquisition — $864 million annual savings. * End prohibitions on competitive sourcing of government services. * Repeal the Davis-Bacon Act — More than $1 billion annually. * IRS Direct Deposit: Require the IRS to deposit fees for some services it offers (such as processing payment plans for taxpayers) to the Treasury, instead of allowing it to remain as part of its budget — $1.8 billion savings over ten years. * Require collection of unpaid taxes by federal employees — $1 billion total savings. WHAT THE HELL IS THIS ABOUT? * Prohibit taxpayer funded union activities by federal employees — $1.2 billion savings over ten years. * Sell excess federal properties the government does not make use of — $15 billion total savings. * Eliminate death gratuity for Members of Congress. WHAT??? * Eliminate Mohair Subsidies — $1 million annual savings. * Eliminate taxpayer subsidies to the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change — $12.5 million annual savings WELL ISN’T THAT SPECIAL * Eliminate Market Access Program — $200 million annual savings. * USDA Sugar Program — $14 million annual savings. * Subsidy to Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) — $93 million annual savings. * Eliminate the National Organic Certification Cost-Share Program — $56.2 million annual savings. * Eliminate fund for Obamacare administrative costs — $900 million savings. * Ready to Learn TV Program — $27 million savings.. WHY????? * HUD Ph.D. Program. * Deficit Reduction Check-Off Act. * TOTAL SAVINGS: $2.5 Trillion over Ten Years[/quote] Two [b]Non Partisan[/b] sources confirming the accuracy of the proposals. [url]http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/about-those-republican-cuts/[/url] [url]http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/ryanbudgetcuts.asp[/url] I like/understand a lot of the above spending, but why the fuck is a portion of my tax payer money going to the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fund_for_Ireland]International Fund for Ireland[/url]? I'm 1/4 Irish, and I don't give a fuck about promoting "economic and social advance and to encourage contact, dialogue and reconciliation between nationalists and unionists throughout Ireland." Especially when I have no control. The Republican's are assholes for not caring to take action to avoid an economic collapse, but the way they see it, the president is unwilling to make budget cuts and just wants to raise taxes. What the republican's don't realize is that Obama has already cut a lot out of the budget, and tried to cut even more, but it's been voted against. The republicans want their budget cuts their way or the highway, and don't support a lot of cutting of the military budget. They need to shut the fuck up about cuts to the defense budget. You can't beg for cuts and then vote down cuts to your favorite areas. I wish they would cut a lot more and try as hard as they can to avoid raising taxes on any American, hopefully cutting out what we don't need and allowing the people to keep more of their money to spend it locally increasing demand for supplies. We shouldn't be sending so much money overseas either. We should get rid of subsidies and programs that don't do much to benefit the American people (Like the aforementioned Ireland fund), as well as bringing our soldiers home and decreasing our international military presence. It's too fucking expensive, and I'm tired of watching the American peoples' money go down the drain.

[QUOTE=SKEEA;39227174]I can feel that my paycheck is in jeopardy. This is going to be one hell of a political fight, with federal employees caught in the middle.[/QUOTE] You're perfectly safe, as am I. all government employees will continue to receive their pay. Its the contractors and equipment that will be getting cut down on if anything happens.

[QUOTE=Ltp0wer;39233458]While the GOP is being pretty dumb, Obama is being dumb playing the whole "America needs to pay it's bills" Okay, well then America needs to stop signing up for shit it can't afford, and needs to stop services it doesn't need and can't afford. What about all those programs and subsidies that we are paying for? Two [b]Non Partisan[/b] sources confirming the accuracy of the proposals. [url]http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/about-those-republican-cuts/[/url] [url]http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/ryanbudgetcuts.asp[/url] I like/understand a lot of the above spending, but why the fuck is a portion of my tax payer money going to the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fund_for_Ireland]International Fund for Ireland[/url]? I'm 1/4 Irish, and I don't give a fuck about promoting "economic and social advance and to encourage contact, dialogue and reconciliation between nationalists and unionists throughout Ireland." Especially when I have no control. The Republican's are assholes for not caring to take action to avoid an economic collapse, but the way they see it, the president is unwilling to make budget cuts and just wants to raise taxes. What the republican's don't realize is that Obama has already cut a lot out of the budget, and tried to cut even more, but it's been voted against. The republicans want their budget cuts their way or the highway, and don't support a lot of cutting of the military budget. They need to shut the fuck up about cuts to the defense budget. You can't beg for cuts and then vote down cuts to your favorite areas. I wish they would cut a lot more and try as hard as they can to avoid raising taxes on any American, hopefully cutting out what we don't need and allowing the people to keep more of their money to spend it locally increasing demand for supplies. We shouldn't be sending so much money overseas either. We should get rid of subsidies and programs that don't do much to benefit the American people (Like the aforementioned Ireland fund), as well as bringing our soldiers home and decreasing our international military presence. It's too fucking expensive, and I'm tired of watching the American peoples' money go down the drain.[/QUOTE] Yeah, while a lot of stuff on that list was more frivolous, it's quite easy to miss a few things that weren't so much: [quote]* National Endowment for the Arts — $167.5 million annual savings. * National Endowment for the Humanities — $167.5 million annual savings. * Amtrak Subsidies — $1.565 billion annual savings. * Intercity and High Speed Rail Grants — $2.5 billion annual savings. * Economic Development Administration — $293 million annual savings. * Eliminate taxpayer subsidies to the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change — $12.5 million annual savings * Eliminate fund for Obamacare administrative costs — $900 million savings.[/quote] Even some of the things I didn't prune were still important in any case, but while you can cry about the international fund to Ireland, this is no time to make our rail system even worse, fuck over implementation of the Affordable Care Act, derail the IPCC, and defund arts programs.

jesus, the first page of this thread is pathetic i mean, come on, guys. and the way we have it now, obama's got quite a bit on his hands that he really should not be blamed for.

Usually I don't agree with Obama, especially when it comes to economic issues But I really like how he's dealing with the fiscal cliff. I don't like how the Republicans are handling this; borrowing money will never solve the issue. Once again, I think the party's falling into the habit of being "anti-democrats" rather than their own political entity, with separate but not diametrically opposed opinions 100 percent of the time. I don't have a whole lot of hope for the future of the republican party, they've gone downhill fast these last 20 years.

[QUOTE=Megafan;39233623]Yeah, while a lot of stuff on that list was more frivolous, it's quite easy to miss a few things that weren't so much: Even some of the things I didn't prune were still important in any case, but while you can cry about the international fund to Ireland, this is no time to make our rail system even worse, fuck over implementation of the Affordable Care Act, derail the IPCC, and defund arts programs.[/QUOTE] Of course. I don't think all of those cuts should actually be made, I was just posting the list in it's entirety.

Imagine if Facepunch ran the American government.. FP 2023!

[QUOTE=Megafan;39233623] Even some of the things I didn't prune were still important in any case, but while you can cry about the international fund to Ireland, this is no time to make our rail system even worse, fuck over implementation of the Affordable Care Act, derail the IPCC, and defund arts programs.[/QUOTE] I would be ok with defunding the arts stuff, if it got re-allocated to science programs

[img]http://i.imgur.com/afSUc.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;39236800]I'd be Ok with defending arts because art never created food, nor did it create a vaccine, nor has it sent people into space, NOR has it advanced the fine art of blowing shit up. Art should be left to those who aren't deciding between "food or bills". Art is useless in the current situation the country is in. We should also remove funding from Egypt, and Pakistan, and well.. everyone else. If we can't even give our own people healthcare and food, we sure as hell shouldn't be paying for other people. I fully support shutting down all military bases in foreign countries, bringing everyone home, and having the longer response times in regards to disasters and attacks.[/QUOTE] Art is useless? That's pretty sad.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;39236800]I'd be Ok with defending arts because art never created food, nor did it create a vaccine, nor has it sent people into space, NOR has it advanced the fine art of blowing shit up. Art should be left to those who aren't deciding between "food or bills". Art is useless in the current situation the country is in. We should also remove funding from Egypt, and Pakistan, and well.. everyone else. If we can't even give our own people healthcare and food, we sure as hell shouldn't be paying for other people. I fully support shutting down all military bases in foreign countries, bringing everyone home, and having the longer response times in regards to disasters and attacks.[/QUOTE] You should look up the word culture sometime...

[QUOTE=Jetblack357;39233610]You're perfectly safe, as am I. all government employees will continue to receive their pay. Its the contractors and equipment that will be getting cut down on if anything happens.[/QUOTE] Not really. I am still rather on edge about the political battle. This article sums up everything. [url]http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/01/14/troop-pay-vet-checks-at-risk-over-deficit-fight.html[/url]

[QUOTE=SKEEA;39239160]Not really. I am still rather on edge about the political battle. This article sums up everything. [url]http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/01/14/troop-pay-vet-checks-at-risk-over-deficit-fight.html[/url][/QUOTE] Judging by the URL alone, that source seems at-least a [B]LITTLE [/B]bit biased.

[QUOTE=Van-man;39239714]Judging by the URL alone, that source seems at-least a [B]LITTLE [/B]bit biased.[/QUOTE] You could take the time and read the whole article instead of simply judging it. It is talking about how military pay and veterans benefits would be threatened if a government shutdown were to occur from this upcoming political battle. It then goes on to speak about what other government agencies would be under threat. It is actually pretty neutral. Don't seek to judge a book by its cover.

[QUOTE=bohb;39226343]Still can't believe people voted for this idiot and still support his policies. Obama racked up more public debt [U]than all past 43 presidents [I]combined[/I].[/U] Yet he thinks he can scapegoat an entire party for the blame. Shame we have 3 more years under this scumbag.[/QUOTE] This is you [thumb]http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss166/SebMcMeb123456/108226_600.jpg[/thumb] and i'm sorry but, it's stupid. President isn't the only person leading this country. Sorry, this isn't a dictatorship.

[QUOTE=ojcoolj;39227693]Mitt Romney wants to scrap gay marriage, abortion and medicare He also wants the people with more money to pay less tax for some reason You're right, Obama's so bad[/QUOTE] I've got facebook friends that can't stand Obama and still wish that Romney won. Little do they realize that while Obama's passing gun control legislation Romney would've likely taxed the lower/middle-class to the point where they couldn't afford a gun if they wanted one. :v:

I like how we praise a relatively decentralized and federated system and yet we look to one guy for all of our problems instead of the the lazy subsidiaries.