• Iran attack decision nears, Israeli elite locks down
    64 replies, posted
[QUOTE=mac338;36005795]I don't think that qualifies them as a first world country though.[/QUOTE] Who gives a fuck if they fit the webster definition or not, what I'm trying to say is that if a war breaks out, NATO , including the US, will be obliged to be involved. If a war broke out and we didn't contain it, Iran might decide to dirty-bomb Israel until it's uninhabitable, which is a [b]bad thing[/b]
zionist conspiration
Cant we all just...get along?
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;36006868]Who gives a fuck if they fit the webster definition or not, what I'm trying to say is that if a war breaks out, NATO , including the US, will be obliged to be involved. If a war broke out and we didn't contain it, Iran might decide to dirty-bomb Israel until it's uninhabitable, which is a [b]bad thing[/b][/QUOTE] I guess it's morally better to bomb the fuck out of Iran in that case then. It's pretty clear Israel wants Iran off the map and they will coax the united states into helping them if given the chance. Edit: I'd also like to see proof of Iran's dirty bombs, WMD's in Iraq were a lie, how can you be sure they aren't a lie this time? Heck, they aren't even a proper lie yet, they are a speculation that some people think true without proof.
[QUOTE=Falchion;36007857]I guess it's morally better to bomb the fuck out of Iran in that case then. It's pretty clear Israel wants Iran off the map and they will coax the united states into helping them if given the chance.[/QUOTE] Whichever injures the least amount of innocent people and causes the least amount of suffering is the morally better option surely? Don't know which one that would be.
Dirty bombs are a joke by the way. The most they can do is increase the chances of cancer in a very small area of land, and that itself will only be felt in about 15-20 years from the bomb detonating. Not a very successful weapon. Might as well use a chemical/biological one...
[QUOTE=Falchion;36007857]It's pretty clear Israel wants Iran off the map[/QUOTE] I think that has something to do with the constant threats Iran spews out. But, I believe Iran is years away from developing any type of nuclear ordinance, and attacking them would be a very wrong move. But if they start moving troops towards the borders Israel's free to pull another six day war in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;36005554]It's human nature to compete, fight, and kill one another, there's no point in trying to completely stop it.[/QUOTE] The (rather tiresome) Human Nature argument is a falsehood which is dangerous thinking that leads to misanthropy. It's also how capitalists (keyword I will explain later) escape responsibility for their own actions by saying "I can't help it, It's my my nature" the same tactic that rapists/abusers/etc use against their victims which in the end it all boils down to rewarding the individual and punishing the victim which is part of the capitalist ideology. It's also a divide & conquer strategy much like racism/nationalism/sexism/etc which is intended for shifting attention away from the real problem while pointing fingers at a strawman. It's not the entirety of the Human Race you should be blaming but rather the Capitalist system itself which is actually the real driving force behind the competition, fighting, and killing one another since you have to remember, there is no money in peace and cooperation that's why war makes huge profits for capitalists via imperialism.
Here's to hoping nothing bloody comes out of this...
[QUOTE=Nannak;36008701]The (rather tiresome) Human Nature argument is a falsehood which is dangerous thinking that leads to misanthropy. It's also how capitalists (keyword I will explain later) escape responsibility for their own actions by saying "I can't help it, It's my my nature" the same tactic that rapists/abusers/etc use against their victims which in the end it all boils down to rewarding the individual and punishing the victim which is part of the capitalist ideology. It's also a divide & conquer strategy much like racism/nationalism/sexism/etc which is intended for shifting attention away from the real problem while pointing fingers at a strawman. It's not the entirety of the Human Race you should be blaming but rather the Capitalist system itself which is actually the real driving force behind the competition, fighting, and killing one another since you have to remember, there is no money in peace and cooperation that's why war makes huge profits for capitalists via imperialism.[/QUOTE] Right, because before capitalism there were no wars and everything was fine and dandy. [editline]18th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Glorbo;36008288]Dirty bombs are a joke by the way. The most they can do is increase the chances of cancer in a very small area of land, and that itself will only be felt in about 15-20 years from the bomb detonating. Not a very successful weapon. Might as well use a chemical/biological one...[/QUOTE] Get a couple barrels of medical-grade cesium-137, put some explosives under it, and detonate it somewhere high, boom, lethal doses of radiation for everyone in a city-sized area. I have no idea where you get your information from but elements like plutonium and cesium are plenty dangerous enough.
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;36009021]Right, because before capitalism there were no wars and everything was fine and dandy.[/QUOTE] I think you need to read Historical Materialism which Capitalism is basically a evolved version of Barbarianism/Slave Based Society/Feudalism that preceded it eversince the emergence of Private Property.
[QUOTE=mac338;36008548]I think that has something to do with the constant threats Iran spews out. But, I believe Iran is years away from developing any type of nuclear ordinance, and attacking them would be a very wrong move. But if they start moving troops towards the borders Israel's free to pull another six day war in my opinion.[/QUOTE] What borders? Iran can't get anywhere near Israel, which is why Iran acts through its proxies in Gaza and Lebanon. Iran could make things dicey in the Strait of Hormuz, that's their direct threat. We have a fleet there but really how many oil tankers do they need to sink to effectively end shipping for a while? Not more than one or two I'd bet. We can't protect all the tankers all the time. The big question that few know the answer to is this: If, and that's a big IF, Iran was bombed would it serve any practical purpose in stopping them from developing a nuclear weapon? Or, when it's all said and done, is Iran going to have one anyways? If Iran were to be attacked, all hell will break loose. It just might be worth it if it meant they would never have a nuke. However, it would not be anywhere near worth it if all it did was set back their development a couple of years.
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;36009021] Get a couple barrels of medical-grade cesium-137, put some explosives under it, and detonate it somewhere high, boom, lethal doses of radiation for everyone in a city-sized area. I have no idea where you get your information from but elements like plutonium and cesium are plenty dangerous enough.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVB0F7kORII#t=7m39[/url]
[QUOTE=Nannak;36009322]I think you need to read Historical Materialism which Capitalism is basically a evolved version of Barbarianism/Slave Based Society/Feudalism that preceded it eversince the emergence of Private Property.[/QUOTE] Then can you explain the Greeks, who were pretty much using an early form of socialism/communism, and they had plenty of sizable wars between themselves and the Persians? Or the USSR, who was completely communist, yet still fought wars in East Europe and Asia to gain more territory? Or Nazi Germany, who was technically a corporate state but nevertheless mostly socialist? And not to mention the majority of communist/socialist states that have fallen in the last century due to political fragmentation, mass hunger, or just plain incompetency? In fact, the only truly successful modern socialist states I can think of are Sweden and Norway, almost every other country has tried and failed with any form of socialism or communism. I don't know where you got this idea that capitalist states are the [i]only[/i] ones who get into wars. Please try to get your facts straight next time. [editline]18th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Glorbo;36009919][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVB0F7kORII#t=7m39[/url][/QUOTE] Okay, my mistake, I was wrong about dirty bombs. But the amount of conventional weaponry that Iran has could still easily cause a lot of problems for Israel if NATO does not get involved.
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;36009935] Okay, my mistake, I was wrong about dirty bombs. But the amount of conventional weaponry that Iran has could still easily cause a lot of problems for Israel if NATO does not get involved.[/QUOTE] As I said, you might as well just use good ol fashioned chemical weapons...
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;36009935]Then can you explain the Greeks, who were pretty much using an early form of socialism/communism, and they had plenty of sizable wars between themselves and the Persians? Or the USSR, who was completely communist, yet still fought wars in East Europe and Asia to gain more territory? Or Nazi Germany, who was technically a corporate state but nevertheless mostly socialist? And not to mention the majority of communist/socialist states that have fallen in the last century due to political fragmentation, mass hunger, or just plain incompetency? In fact, the only truly successful modern socialist states I can think of are Sweden and Norway, almost every other country has tried and failed with any form of socialism or communism. I don't know where you got this idea that capitalist states are the [i]only[/i] ones who get into wars. Please try to get your facts straight next time. [/QUOTE] Soviet Union? Completely communist? Hah! Also, Cuba is completely socialist and still a going concern as Norway and Sweden are.
We had better not support Israel in this. This is going way too far.
[QUOTE=manhaTTan;36002816]Israel takes out Iran/Iran takes out Israel. Two birds, one stone. What is there not to like??? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Troll" - Starpluck))[/highlight][/QUOTE] This didn't deserve a ban. Anyway, I hope tensions die down and a peaceful outcome is found.
[QUOTE=Pantz76;36010128]This didn't deserve a ban. [/QUOTE] If you looked at his previous posting history, you would see that it did.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36010036]still a going concern as Norway and Sweden are.[/QUOTE] Sorry what? Sweden and Norway are 'going concerns'?
[QUOTE=Megafan;36010238]Sorry what? Sweden and Norway are 'going concerns'?[/QUOTE] Are they not still functioning with no chance of that changing in sight? I didn't mean that they're a "concern". [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_concern]I meant it in a technical sense.[/url]
[QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;36009935]the USSR, who was completely communist[/quote] Wow. [QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;36009935]Nazi Germany, who was [...] mostly socialist?[/quote] Double wow. [QUOTE=Wealth + Taste;36009935]almost every other country has tried and failed with any form of socialism or communism.[/quote] TRIPLE WOW. Do you even know what Socialism or Communism is? [editline]18th May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36010254]Are they not still functioning with no chance of that changing in sight?[/QUOTE] But why is that a concern?
[QUOTE=Megafan;36010257]Wow. Double wow. TRIPLE WOW. Do you even know what Socialism or Communism is? [editline]18th May 2012[/editline] But why is that a concern?[/QUOTE] Look above, I edited my post
What would be the actual fallout of an Israeli strike on Iran's nuclear facilities? Geographically speaking, Iran would be unable to mount any sort of counter attack besides launching barrages of missiles at Israel or attempting to shut the Straights of Hormuz. Both of which wouldn't be of any use considering Israel only has to protect a small land mass and that the U.S. has a carrier fleet in the Gulf. Iran doesn't really have any ally in the Middle East that would aid them considering Hamas won't back them up and Syria is tied up in their own problems for the most part, though this doesn't discourage any possible aid by Hezbollah or (Syria depending on if they are crazy enough to attack Israel in their current state). Unless Iran has something up their sleeve, then it's hard to see how this would spread out into a large conflict. Iran's economy is already down the drain after the sanctions, but if it affects China enough, then maybe it would spark some sort of outrage if not retaliation. Just my two cents, but I would like to hear what everyone else thinks would happen if Israel attacked Iran.
[QUOTE=tesher07;36010543]What would be the actual fallout of an Israeli strike on Iran's nuclear facilities? Geographically speaking, Iran would be unable to mount any sort of counter attack besides launching barrages of missiles at Israel or attempting to shut the Straights of Hormuz. Both of which wouldn't be of any use considering Israel only has to protect a small land mass and that the U.S. has a carrier fleet in the Gulf. Iran doesn't really have any ally in the Middle East that would aid them considering Hamas won't back them up and Syria is tied up in their own problems for the most part, though this doesn't discourage any possible aid by Hezbollah or (Syria depending on if they are crazy enough to attack Israel in their current state). Unless Iran has something up their sleeve, then it's hard to see how this would spread out into a large conflict. Iran's economy is already down the drain after the sanctions, but if it affects China enough, then maybe it would spark some sort of outrage if not retaliation. Just my two cents, but I would like to hear what everyone else thinks would happen if Israel attacked Iran.[/QUOTE] Never know, all those things that you listed that would be for Iran not attacking could actually be them pushed into a corner. They have no friends Their economy is hurting Israel is threatening What's there to lose?
I hear they are pretty chummy with North Korea
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;36010723]I hear they are pretty chummy with North Korea[/QUOTE] you can basically compare them to the french and americans during napoleonic wars from what i see
[QUOTE=Roof;36010763]you can basically compare them to the french and americans during napoleonic wars from what i see[/QUOTE] We weren't very friendly with the French at that time. Sure we bought Louisiana from them, but it's hardly a show of friendliness. Just look up the Quasi War, for example. I don't think Iran and NK are that hostile toward each other.
Iran cannot invade Israel and neither can Israel. There is Saudi Arabia and Iraq in between these two nation. Fly over them and they will get shot down
[QUOTE=BCell;36010937]Iran cannot invade Israel and neither can Israel. There is Saudi Arabia and Iraq in between these two nation. Fly over them and they will get shot down[/QUOTE] Israel flew over Saudi Arabia to bomb Iraq and had no problem at all.
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