Amnesty International: Israeli authorities must stop demolitions of Palestinian homes - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Perfumly;22698757]Like I said I'm only referring to the first point when I said that, can you direct me to the post in which gunfox said "It's okay to shoot someone for stealing a TV"[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure he didn't see anything wrong with it and you made a claim that he only supports shooting people who are a threat to a person. do you have any post(s) that state that [editline]01:52AM[/editline] regardless, my other four points stand

[QUOTE=Perfumly;22698757]Like I said I'm only referring to the first point when I said that, can you direct me to the post in which gunfox said "It's okay to shoot someone for stealing a TV"[/QUOTE] And the "Obama'll take guns away" one. I don't agree with Gunfox but I'd like to see where he said that as well.

[QUOTE=kevn150;22698775]Then why do the most successful people living in America support a political policy of conservatism?[/QUOTE] Uh, isn't it kind of obvious?

[QUOTE=Zeke129;22698793]And the "Obama'll take guns away" one. I don't agree with Gunfox but I'd like to see where he said that as well.[/QUOTE] nevermind on that one I was wrong [editline]01:56AM[/editline] he voted for Obama which I find surprising he just seems like a conservative to me with everything he's said

[QUOTE=JDK721;22698776] and you made a claim that he only supports shooting people who are a threat to a person. [/QUOTE] I'm just basing that claim off the reasonable assumption that anyone who isn't a nutjob doesn't support the execution of a person for stealing a television.

[QUOTE=GunFox;22694229]So Jews get kicked out and have all of their stuff burned to the ground in 1948 by the Jordanians and are in turn restricted all access to holy sites. The Jews take it back in 1967 and instead of burning everything to the ground and kicking them out of the region, they offer citizenship status to everyone willing to become one, and residency status to everyone who doesn't as well as offering access to holy sites. Now they are bulldozing buildings of non-citizens (who have had half a century to become citizens) who lack proper permits and taking land back that they own anyways?[/QUOTE] What the hell... GunFox? As a moderator you shouldn't even be allowed to perpetuate such filth on this forum. United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 (after the 67' war) explicitly calls for a [quote](i) Withdrawal of Israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict; (ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force." [3][/quote] It's internationally called "Occupied land" for a reason. I'm appalled that you would actually say they have right to that land and are entitled to bulldoze homes there and build their own settlements on occupied land. Something which the fourth Geneva convention from 1949 that mentions [Quote]Art. 53. Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.[/quote] [quote]Agreements concluded between the occupying power and the local authorities cannot deprive the population of occupied territory of the protection afforded by international humanitarian law (GC IV, art. 47) and protected persons themselves can in no circumstances renounce their rights (GC IV, art. 8). The main rules of the law applicable in case of occupation state that: The occupant does not acquire sovereignty over the territory. Occupation is only a temporary situation, and the rights of the occupant are limited to the extent of that period. The occupying power must respect the laws in force in the occupied territory, unless they constitute a threat to its security or an obstacle to the application of the international law of occupation. The occupying power must take measures to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety. To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation. The population in occupied territory cannot be forced to enlist in the occupier's armed forces. Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited. [B]Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.[/b] Collective punishment is prohibited. The taking of hostages is prohibited. Reprisals against protected persons or their property are prohibited. The confiscation of private property by the occupant is prohibited. The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities. Cultural property must be respected. People accused of criminal offences shall be provided with proceedings respecting internationally recognized judicial guarantees (for example, they must be informed of the reason for their arrest, charged with a specific offence and given a fair trial as quickly as possible). Personnel of the International Red Cross/Red Crescent Movement must be allowed to carry out their humanitarian activities. The ICRC, in particular, must be given access to all protected persons, wherever they are, whether or not they are deprived of their liberty.[/quote] Yes, Israel cites security reasons for the demoltion of homes, but it's so obviously questionable by the frequency they do it, especially when you take the article's account. Also why are you adamantly in favor for Israel's right to self-defense and self-determination, but yet you blame the house demoltions on the Palestinians for choosing not to become citizens of a foreign occupier? Are they not entitled to their own self-determination? You look like such hypocrite, seriously. And again before even defending the demolitions, you demonize the Palestinians for something the Jordanians did in era of brutality where crimes were committed by every side.

[QUOTE=Jund;22698761][QUOTE=Lambeth;22698673]I got him to say Israel is being a dick earlier. Progress![/QUOTE] Lies. I demand proof of this.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=GunFox;22694606][QUOTE=Lambeth;22694519]legally I suppose it's fine but it's still a shitty thing to do[/QUOTE] Yeah it really is. Israel really just has a knack for doing things in just the wrong way.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Chippay;22698572]hahahahaha tell that to the israeli settlements in the west bank[/QUOTE] Well technically the government gave them permits to build there but I still think they should be demolished or given to someone else. Not the point though as they are still legally built. [QUOTE=starpluck;22698614]Yeah they are. Did you read the part where getting permits for Palestinans is nearly impossibile?[/QUOTE] I think that's a bit exaggerated. It may be nearly impossible to do what they want but there is no policy in place to make Arabs homeless. It's also not ok to just go ahead and build when you don't have a permit, any civilised country would do the same as Israel.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22698852]Well technically the government gave them permits to build there but I still think they should be demolished or given to someone else. Not the point though as they are still legally built. I think that's a bit exaggerated. It may be nearly impossible to do what they want but there is no policy in place to make Arabs homeless. It's also not ok to just go ahead and build when you don't have a permit, any civilised country would do the same as Israel.[/QUOTE] Legally built by ISRAELI LAW. Prove that it's actually legal by international law. Because I can it's not.

[QUOTE=Sporkfire;22698837]What the hell... GunFox? As a moderator you shouldn't even be allowed to perpetuate such filth on this forum. United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 (after the 67' war) explicitly calls for a It's internationally called "Occupied land" for a reason. I'm appalled that you would actually say they have right to that land and are entitled to bulldoze homes there and build their own settlements on occupied land. Something which the fourth Geneva convention from 1949 that mentions Yes, Israel cites security reasons for the demoltion of homes, but it's so obviously questionable by the frequency they do it, especially when you take the article's account. Also why are you adamantly in favor for Israel's right to self-defense and self-determination, but yet you blame the house demoltions on the Palestinians for choosing not to become citizens of a foreign occupier? Are they not entitled to their own self-determination? You look like such hypocrite, seriously. And again before even defending the demolitions, you demonize the Palestinians for something the Jordanians did in era of brutality where crimes were committed by every side.[/QUOTE] Such "flith"? He's just putting it in simple terms. Calling it filth involves getting your political views into facts, which is called an opinion. It all boils down to this: People build houses where they aren't allowed to. Occupying force tears them down. Is there anything factually wrong with that? No. Is there anything morally wrong with that? That's your opinion.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;22698851][/QUOTE] Close, but until you can get him to actually say those words, no cigar.

[QUOTE=kevn150;22698888]Such "flith"? He's just putting it in simple terms. Calling it filth involves getting your political views into facts, which is called an opinion. It all boils down to this: People build houses where they aren't allowed to. Occupying force tears them down. Is there anything factually wrong with that? No. Is there anything morally wrong with that? That's your opinion.[/QUOTE] I've called Gunfox's assertion that Israel can actually just demolish and retake "their entitled land" filth. Besides it's blatantly obvious that Israel makes the permit process as bureaucratic as possible so they can continue on to illegally expand on occupied territory with more ease.

[QUOTE=Jund;22698933][QUOTE=Lambeth;22698851][/QUOTE] Close, but until you can get him to actually say those words, no cigar.[/QUOTE] picky picky

[QUOTE=Sporkfire;22698864]Legally built by ISRAELI LAW. Prove that it's actually legal by international law. Because I can it's not.[/QUOTE] International law, lol. Israel is the one demolishing the houses, they are the ones who decide what gets demolished. If in their eyes it's illegal, they demolish it. International law doesn't really have any way of enforcing their laws except complaining.

[QUOTE=kevn150;22698888]Such "flith"? He's just putting it in simple terms. Calling it filth involves getting your political views into facts, which is called an opinion. It all boils down to this: People build houses where they aren't allowed to. Occupying force tears them down. Is there anything factually wrong with that? No. Is there anything morally wrong with that? That's your opinion.[/QUOTE] I have as much as an affect on my country's laws as Israel has on international laws. It's laughable how people actually believe that Israel can just do whatever it wants because it says it can.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22698852]Well technically the government gave them permits to build there but I still think they should be demolished or given to someone else. Not the point though as they are still legally built. I think that's a bit exaggerated. It may be nearly impossible to do what they want but there is no policy in place to make Arabs homeless. It's also not ok to just go ahead and build when you don't have a permit, any civilised country would do the same as Israel.[/QUOTE] It's not exaggerated at all. This is a well know fact, and all articles that pertain to Palestinan home demolition always mention it's impossiblity, this leaves them pretty no choice but build. The only options they have is build, or remain homeless. Either option is a lose - lose situation. And no, not civilized countries, civilized countries let other nationalties apply for permits without being discriminatory and even if you did build, they won't come and destroy it without warning and refuse the the people to salvage possesions.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22698975]International law, lol. Israel is the one demolishing the houses, they are the ones who decide what gets demolished. If in their eyes it's illegal, they demolish it. International law doesn't really have any way of enforcing their laws except complaining.[/QUOTE] I would not want to live in a country under your dictatorship. Just because a country says what they're doing is legal doesn't actually make it internationally legal or of course ethical. Besides Israel is a signatory of that convention, it needs to respect it. Gotta love it when, Israel supporters scoff at International Law. PAAH we can do whatever the fuck we want, because I said so!

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22698975]International law, lol. Israel is the one demolishing the houses, they are the ones who decide what gets demolished. If in their eyes it's illegal, they demolish it. International law doesn't really have any way of enforcing their laws except complaining.[/QUOTE] Well, I hope it comes back to bite them in the ass one day. Good job showing that Israel is a little child who believes they can do whatever they want because they have a gun.

[QUOTE=Sporkfire;22698955]I've called Gunfox's assertion that Israel can actually just demolish and retake "their entitled land" filth. Besides it's blatantly obvious that Israel makes the permit process as bureaucratic as possible so they can continue on to illegally expand on occupied territory.[/QUOTE] This is the core issue here, is it occupied land? Personally I think the West Bank settlements are in occupied land and everything else is Israel, I'm sure you think anything beyond the maps drawn up by the UN in 1948 is occupied. Most countries acknowledge it is Israeli land but since the West Bank isn't really a state and it's gone far longer than a normal occupation, it's hard to say definitively.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22698975]International law, lol. Israel is the one demolishing the houses, they are the ones who decide what gets demolished. If in their eyes it's illegal, they demolish it. International law doesn't really have any way of enforcing their laws except complaining.[/QUOTE] Oh wow.

[QUOTE=starpluck;22699032]Oh wow.[/QUOTE] Fuck authoritah!

[QUOTE=Jund;22698989]I have as much as an affect on my country's laws as Israel has on international laws. It's laughable how people actually believe that Israel can just do whatever it wants because it says it can.[/QUOTE] I'll tell you what's laughable: the fact that you - let alone any of us - have a say in this matter. Israel is doing what they believe is best to protect their own country. Why else would they be doing what they're doing as of now? Do you think Israel, as a nation, likes to pick on Palestinians? Do you think the IDF decides that they are going to go into the Gaza strip to shoot people just for fun? Do they want to tear down homes just to make people homeless? This is what you are implying when you oppose Israel's actions. There are no other reasons besides the two: Israel being a dick for no other reason besides being a dick -or- Israel doing what's best to protect its country.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22699028]This is the core issue here, is it occupied land? Personally I think the West Bank settlements are in occupied land and everything else is Israel, I'm sure you think anything beyond the maps drawn up by the UN in 1948 is occupied. Most countries acknowledge it is Israeli land but since the West Bank isn't really a state and it's gone far longer than a normal occupation, it's hard to say definitively.[/QUOTE] Nope, I believe in the same thing the UN does with resolution 242. That the borders after 67' are occupied land. It's internationally known as occupied land. [QUOTE=kevn150;22699087]I'll tell you what's laughable: the fact that you - let alone any of us - have a say in this matter. Israel is doing what they believe is best to protect their own country. Why else would they be doing what they're doing as of now? Do you think Israel, as a nation, likes to pick on Palestinians? Do you think the IDF decides that they are going to go into the Gaza strip to shoot people just for fun? Do they want to tear down homes just to make people homeless? This is what you are implying when you oppose Israel's actions. There are no other reasons besides the two: Israel being a dick for no other reason besides being a dick -or- Israel doing what's best to protect its country.[/QUOTE] You're argument sucks, Hitler thought he was doing what was best for his country as well. It didn't make him right. The fact is that there are international laws and human rights being violated by Israel, and a few powerful entities look the other way because it resides in their political interests.

[QUOTE=JDK721;22698582]lol coming from you.. 1) you think shooting someone for stealing a TV is acceptable 2) you're obsessed with guns 3) you defend Israel in every single thread 4) you defended the Apache crew when they murdered civilians[/QUOTE] 1) I think shooting someone for breaking into my home is acceptable. If you have broken in, then I see no reason why I should be forced to risk my life to figure out if you are a legitimate threat or just some prick who wants my electronics. 2) So? 3) Because people blindly go after them with complete and utter disregard for motives or purposes behind anything. Even when I don't side with Israel, my stance in the center makes everyone think that I do. 4) Because I'm aware of the work and tests which go into producing helicopter crews. They aren't bloodthirsty psychopaths and then undoubtedly didn't meant to kill civilians. I'm also aware that accidental civilian death is part of the military doctrine of the opposing side. Using civilians as camouflage is a solid means of concealing yourself and causing the enemy to lose morale and support when they accidentally kill civilians in the pursuit of you. You are all too willing to slap "blood thirsty" on the side of the pilots and hang them out to dry when the situation is extremely complicated. [QUOTE=Chippay;22698299]gunfox i had you pegged as a conservative with all the military fetishism what's the deal?[/QUOTE] Basically I am of the opinion that law is meant to protect people with as little encroachment on the freedoms of the people it protects as possible. However at the same time, it is still completely possible to have a government that has strong social assistance programs. Welfare, scholarships (And of course education itself), foreign aid, government health care, these are all things that benefit everyone whether they use the program directly or not. We currently employ a punitive criminal justice system and, as a result, we have one of the highest populations of incarcerated individuals in the world. We have a system that makes it virtually impossible for an ex-convict to ever get a job again and return his life to normalcy. We carefully craft this never ending cycle that is brutally effective at taking the children of former convicts and making THEM into criminals. Our probation officers are so fucking thick, that they don't even realize that part of their job is reintegrating people into society. It's ridiculous. We need to REFORM criminals, not simply PUNISH them. We need to stop criminalizing possession, at the very least, and start viewing it as an illness that needs to be treated. Overwhelming percentages of crime are based almost entirely around, or committed under the influence of, illegal narcotics. Military action should always be a last resort, it should also however be extraordinarily brutal and unforgiving when pursued. I am a huge fan of never setting boots on the ground anywhere, instead simply crippling a target through the use of overwhelming air power. Obviously certain situations call for ground power on occasion, but avoiding it is ideal. If I speak to the use of military action too frequently, it is generally because theorizing about effective tactics with military units is much more entertaining than figuring out what the hell two diplomats are going to talk about over tea. My love of firearms is likely simply southern blood. They are to me what cars are to other people. So yeah. If I take a side in an argument, it's often not for the reasons people think.

[QUOTE=Sporkfire;22699009]I would not want to live in a country under your dictatorship. Just because a country says what they're doing is legal doesn't actually make it internationally legal or of course ethical. Besides Israel is a signatory of that convention, it needs to respect it.[/QUOTE] I'm a dictator now, awesome. Israel is going to enforce it's own laws, not international laws. If they decided to enforce those laws then they would, but their own laws come first. It doesn't make it legal or ethical, but they are still going to do it.

[QUOTE=Sporkfire;22698837]What the hell... GunFox? As a moderator you shouldn't even be allowed to perpetuate such filth on this forum. United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 (after the 67' war) explicitly calls for a [/QUOTE] I don't give a shit what the UN says. I really don't. They pass laws and then don't enforce them. Either enforce the laws and resolutions, or shut the fuck up. It cheapens the concept of rule by law to make laws that are unenforceable.

[QUOTE=kevn150;22699087] Israel doing what's best to protect its country.[/QUOTE] That justifies nothing

[QUOTE=Lambeth;22699139]That justifies nothing[/QUOTE] So in your opinion, Israel just likes being a dick?

[QUOTE=Perfumly;22698757]can you direct me to the post in which gunfox said "It's okay to shoot someone for stealing a TV"[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=22699100&postcount=144[/url]

[QUOTE=kevn150;22699087]I'll tell you what's laughable: the fact that you - let alone any of us - have a say in this matter. Israel is doing what they believe is best to protect their own country. Why else would they be doing what they're doing as of now? Do you think Israel, as a nation, likes to pick on Palestinians? Do you think the IDF decides that they are going to go into the Gaza strip to shoot people just for fun? Do they want to tear down homes just to make people homeless? This is what you are implying when you oppose Israel's actions. There are no other reasons besides the two: Israel being a dick for no other reason besides being a dick -or- Israel doing what's best to protect its country.[/QUOTE] Do you know what would be the best for me? Killing everyone in the entire world, as they can all harm me in someway. What's I'm implying that Israel is doing this for their own selfish reasons, under the guise of doing "what is best for their country".