• Betsy DeVos likely to get education post despite all-night Democratic protest
    101 replies, posted
It's a Tie. Pence will break it and she will be confirmed. Fuck
well those fuckers did it, good bye american schools
If a parent doesn't want their child to learn scientific concepts - not that I support that at all - they should find a different environment for their child. I think it's wrong to force the other children to deviate from the normal scientific curriculum because some other kids' parents are too obstinate to just give their children a standard education. As a country we need to just stop catering to the vocal minorities that hold everyone else back. Let them sink on their own.
Wonder if there'll be an increase in home-schooling because of this.
[QUOTE=Protocol7;51789635]If a parent doesn't want their child to learn scientific concepts - not that I support that at all - they should find a different environment for their child. I think it's wrong to force the other children to deviate from the normal scientific curriculum because some other kids' parents are too obstinate to just give their children a standard education. As a country we need to stop focusing on the vocal minorities that hold everyone else back.[/QUOTE] DeVos and school choice will allow for this.
Watch how they start Teaching that humans cannot change the climate.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51789640]DeVos and school choice will allow for this.[/QUOTE] That's still nothing if we can't bolster the quality of education in public schools nationwide, a task of which I firmly believe DeVos is not capable.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51789598]You're willing to trash a school that outperforms in every metric because a biology teacher takes 30 seconds to say "Some people believe that god created everything as it is." at the beginning of a week long lesson plan on evolution? I'm not.[/QUOTE] If that's what you meant by 'teaching creationism alongside it', that's some really badly chosen words. Casually mentioning that some people believe in creationism is something I'd expect any teacher to do at one point or another [I](although most likely in the context of "and this fact shows how creationism is false")[/I], and should not be described as 'teaching' it 'alongside' true biology.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51789605]Oh haha if only it were such a small statement. When it is stated in classrooms, you are validating beliefs that children have been told to believe by their ignorant parents. You are perpetrating ignorance. That's an automatic failure in my books. If we're doing ancedotes, my science teacher in 5th grade (!!!) Stated that "I have to teach evolution because of the law, but we all know God created all living things, right?" as the students nod their heads in a confused agreement. I did too. "If the science teacher said it, it must be true!" I thought. I can never forgive that woman for being such an abomination upon the young minds at that school. She is ignorance incarnate. Even her children are mindless zombies, just blurting out religious doctrines against all common science and knowledge. It is really sad. They're just an extension of their mother, unable to really think for themselves. They never had a chance to.[/QUOTE] Those beliefs will be validated by many many other people, and nobody is forced to send their kid to another school. The voucher program just makes it easier for lower income parents to send their kids to higher performing schools, even if that school is religious. Not all of us have a hateboner for anything religious, and can see where the positives can outweigh the negatives. I think this is something we will never agree on.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51789683]Those beliefs will be validated by many many other people, and nobody is forced to send their kid to another school. The voucher program just makes it easier for lower income parents to send their kids to higher performing schools, even if that school is religious. Not all of us have a hateboner for anything religious, and can see where the positives can outweigh the negatives. I think this is something we will never agree on.[/QUOTE] There's a big, important difference between having a 'hateboner' for false information that some people use to find meaning in their life, and having a 'hateboner' for schools teaching false information.
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;51789699]There's a big, important difference between having a 'hateboner' for false information that some people use to find meaning in their life, and having a 'hateboner' for schools teaching false information.[/QUOTE] "Some people believe that the universe was created by God in 7 days." Is that phrase false information?
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51789704]That's awful. "Sorry son, we are too poor to go to a secular school. I hope you're ready to accept Jesus as your lord as savior just for a basic education."[/QUOTE] This is so ridiculous that I don't know where to start. 1) Public schools are still an option, and they are FREE! 2) Nobody is forcing kids to go to a religious school, period. 3) Nobody is forcing you to choose a religious school. There are secular charter schools as well.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51789707]"Some people believe that the universe was created by God in 7 days." Is that phrase false information?[/QUOTE] No, and saying that sentence isn't 'teaching creationism'. When you talk about 'teaching creationism alongside' biology, is casual statements such as that the full extent of what you mean? If so, you should stop calling it 'teaching creationism'.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51789707]"Some people believe that the universe was created by God in 7 days." Is that phrase false information?[/QUOTE] No, but it doesn't belong in a science classroom. And I'm fairly sure that if you actually did a study on the subject, the retards teaching pseudoscience alongside evolution are sure as shit not objective enough to say "Some people believe it but here's what the actual facts are"
[QUOTE=Zombinie;51789525]Honest question here: Is it worth killing her over this? Someone help me out and please I'm not dumb or angry, and i'm not honestly considering doing anything crazy I just need a role model or mentor with some wisdom. I am still learning a lot about life, and the past months have been having me ask these deep philosophical questions regarding morality and life and death. Like is it acceptable to kill someone if it means a higher standard of living for millions? For thousands? For ten? How much freedom is essential and worth waging war for, and how much freedom is "extra"? I know it seems like I'm insane or deranged but that's part of why I hate these thoughts, because the answers are really important, and I honestly don't know the answers or have any guidance, yet even asking about it makes me sound dangerous. Please can an adult help me out?[/QUOTE] I just hope you kill yourself before you hurt someone else. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Unacceptable post." - Bradyns))[/highlight]
the way the american right is so objectively terrible and people still vote for them is really weird
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51789719]As long as I'm bombarding you with questions and hypotheticals, I'll ask again: What makes creationism special?[/QUOTE] It's just what came to mind. [QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;51789739]No, and saying that sentence isn't 'teaching creationism'. When you talk about 'teaching creationism alongside' biology, is casual statements such as that the full extent of what you mean? If so, you should stop calling it 'teaching creationism'.[/QUOTE] There's basically not much left to say after "In 7 days, god created the universe" when you're describing creationism. [QUOTE=EcksDee;51789740]No, but it doesn't belong in a science classroom. And I'm fairly sure that if you actually did a study on the subject, the retards teaching pseudoscience alongside evolution are sure as shit not objective enough to say "Some people believe it but here's what the actual facts are"[/QUOTE] I agree, but I don't think a school should be totally discounted because of this one issue.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51789707]"Some people believe that the universe was created by God in 7 days." Is that phrase false information?[/QUOTE] What's the point of saying such a thing in a [I]biology[/I] class? It has nothing to do with biology. Why is it such an unacceptable thing to prevent teachers from teaching creationism if the way they would teach it is as inconsequential as you claim it is? I've also been in a religious school, mind you, a catholic one. And none of the religious stuff spilled out into unrelated courses. We had a religious culture course (for the non-catholics) where we talked about everything religion-related (not restricted to Christianism). The rest of the school program was identical to public ones.
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51789817]By what makes creationism special, I mean why should it be taught over other equally ridiculous theories?[/QUOTE] I don't know why students shouldn't learn what they all are. I mean, they are going to run into people who hold these beliefs in the real world. Why shouldn't they know what they are? I can know about the primordial soup, and still be smart enough to know that evolution is how we came to be.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51789826]What's the point of saying such a thing in a [I]biology[/I] class? It has nothing to do with biology. Why is it such an unacceptable thing to prevent teachers from teaching creationism if the way they would teach it is as inconsequential as you claim it is? I've also been in a religious school, mind you, a catholic one. And none of the religious stuff spilled out into unrelated courses. We had a religious culture course (for the non-catholics) where we talked about everything religion-related (not restricted to Christianism). The rest of the school program was identical to public ones.[/QUOTE] Because that shit WILL leak into other courses man.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51789826]What's the point of saying such a thing in a [I]biology[/I] class? It has nothing to do with biology. Why is it such an unacceptable thing to prevent teachers from teaching creationism if the way they would teach it is as inconsequential as you claim it is? I've also been in a religious school, mind you, a catholic one. And none of the religious stuff spilled out into unrelated courses. We had a religious culture course (for the non-catholics) where we talked about everything religion-related (not restricted to Christianism). The rest of the school program was identical to public ones.[/QUOTE] That's the same experience I had when I attended a catholic school. But my point has always been that I won't fault a school for doing that if it's a great school in all other aspects, and I wouldn't have a problem with a voucher system that allows kids to attend great schools just because they may teach, mention, whatever about creationism in biology class when teaching evolution. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water is all I'm saying.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51789846]That's the same experience I had when I attended a catholic school. But my point has always been that I won't fault a school for doing that if it's a great school in all other aspects, and I wouldn't have a problem with a voucher system that allows kids to attend great schools just because they may teach, mention, whatever about creationism in biology class when teaching evolution. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water is all I'm saying.[/QUOTE] But the system I described and which you claim you experienced too didn't teach creationism alongside biology? That's what people are criticizing here. Performance doesn't excuse shit, they could have the same performance without bringing up creationism and that's what they should do.
the answer is homeschooling and khan academy fuck public and private schooling its a business in america therefore its not a place to receive actual education
:snip: [editline]7th February 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Llamaguy;51789830]Because that shit WILL leak into other courses man.[/QUOTE] Eh maybe it's because European Catholics are less hardcore than your average US bible-thumper but from my experience that doesn't happen. Also teachers in private schools are paid with public funds and they have to follow the National Academy's program. If they start pulling that sort of shit and an inspector hears of it their funding's pulled.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51789851]But the system I described and which you claim you experienced too didn't teach creationism alongside biology? That's what people are criticizing here. Performance doesn't excuse shit, they could have the same performance without bringing up creationism and that's what they should do.[/QUOTE] Let me clarify: I had biology in public school, but the next year switched to a catholic boarding school for a year. All classes except for our "religion education" class were completely devoid of anything religious, and was rigorously focused on acedemics. Whereas when I was in public school the year before, my biology teacher (who was excellent by the way), taught (or explained, whatever) creationism at the beginning of our lesson on evolution.
[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;51789885]Let me clarify: I had biology in public school, but the next year switched to a catholic boarding school for a year. All classes except for our "religion education" class were completely devoid of anything religious, and was rigorously focused on acedemics. Whereas when I was in public school the year before, my biology teacher (who was excellent by the way), taught (or explained, whatever) creationism at the beginning of our lesson on evolution.[/QUOTE] creationism or any other religious concept should never be taught in school unless it's in a class that specifically is about religion and culture.
I'm fine with religious beliefs being taught in, say, philosophy classes. I went to a catholic school, and they actually gave us a pretty nice overview of every other major religion. With an obvious catholic bias, of course, which I guess is a given What I'm not fine with is things like the physics teacher at the public school I went to in North Carolina, telling the class that Darwin is a fraud, and evolution has been debunked, in the middle of a class about friction
[QUOTE=_Axel;51789853]:snip: [editline]7th February 2017[/editline] Eh maybe it's because European Catholics are less hardcore than your average US bible-thumper but from my experience that doesn't happen. Also teachers in private schools are paid with public funds and they have to follow the National Academy's program. If they start pulling that sort of shit and an inspector hears of it their funding's pulled.[/QUOTE] Catholics nominally recognize the difference between State and Church, as institutions. A long history of steady secular drift and a genuine scientific/intellectual spirit in (certain brotherhoods of) the Catholic church mean that on the whole, Catholics can typically separate liturgical material from educational material. However, American Protestants, in particular certain denominations like Presbyterians or Baptists, believe that the liturgical materials (the bible, the words of the preacher, the vague 'godly' feelings in your brain) are not just [I]equal[/I] facts to scientifically/logically discovered ideas, but are actually [B]superior[/B] facts, and that they have a moral duty, on pain of going to hell, to always try to ensure that those religious ideas spread throughout their immediate, local society. This is not, on the whole, representative of American Christianity, but it is deeply and profoundly representative of a large number of American Christians, who due to geographical reasons, are the majority (even super majority) in some places. Because of America's largely decentralized structure, it is hard to effectively police or control 'these' Christians at times, as opposed to France's ability to quickly and effectively flatten over-reaching Christian institutions.
[QUOTE=God of Ashes;51789540]No.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;51789741]I just hope you kill yourself before you hurt someone else.[/QUOTE] wow thank you so much for being so understanding, helpful, and explanatory all I wanted was someone to help me unpack and understand these predicaments because I am confused and conflicted, and I didnt know where to go to ask for help without being judged - Ill go ask a philosophy professor or something I guess
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;51789644]Watch how they start Teaching that humans cannot change the climate.[/QUOTE] Son of a bitch, I hadn't even thought about that. Now things are going to be even worse off. [I]Fuck.[/I]
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