Anserine anti-gm movement continues to fail, M&S, Co-operative and Sainsburys to sell chicken fed wi
80 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Zeke129;40792914]GMO is fine but I'm against the idea that we should be allowed to patent living organisms[/QUOTE]
Why?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40793018]Why?[/QUOTE]
because it sets a dangerous precedent, and look what monsanto has been doing with their patents; enforcing an effective monopoly
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40792578]Then read the packaging. Why need a sticker?[/QUOTE]
Ugh, it wouldn't say anywhere on the packaging that it was a GM product. That was essentially his point.
also sobotnik I liked your old title, it was way more accurate
[QUOTE=T2L_Goose;40792412]The real agenda behind the anti-gmo push is anti-corporate and conspiracy paranoia.[/QUOTE]
I'm not against GMO foods, but that's a rash generalization to make. There are still concerns about horizontal gene transfer from GM crops to gut bacteria.
[QUOTE=T2L_Goose;40792412]The government tests GMO crops just like they test any other food. If the FDA okays it to be put on the shelves, I don't see what's so worrying. I imagine these same people use over the counter drugs to help a headache or a cold.[/QUOTE]
The FDA is a corrupt organization that accepts tests from biased corporate-funded research organizations that test said over-the-counter drugs with faulty clinical trials. Once again, not against GMO food, but the FDA is by no means an organization that you can trust with 100% full faith and confidence.
[QUOTE=T2L_Goose;40792412]All I see are people demonizing GMO crops because A: They see a scary sounding chemical name and jump to a conclusion simply because they don't understand the science behind it,[/QUOTE]
And you do?
[QUOTE=T2L_Goose;40792412]B: They can wake up in the morning and have any type of food they want. It's easy to be critical when you're not hungry. You cannot sustain the world's current and growing population off of organic farming alone.[/QUOTE]
Tell that to the anti-GM protesters in Africa.
The Anti-GM Protestors who screwed over Africa in the GM scene need to be trialed for crimes against humanity. They are on par with the warlords in Somalia.
[QUOTE=Generic Monk;40793072]because it sets a dangerous precedent, and look what monsanto has been doing with their patents; enforcing an effective monopoly[/QUOTE]
Dangerous precedent? You need to explain why it's bad in the first place instead of saying "this could potentially happen".
Secondly, a reason for the patents is because they keep producing new seed varieties all the time, and the patents also expire.
But wheat is technically already genetically modified, through years of cultivating grasses
[editline]26th May 2013[/editline]
Corn even
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40793018]Why?[/QUOTE]
Because ecosystems are incredibly fragile and when you're introducing new plants to them with a patented genetic makeup you're manufacturing an ecological disaster with a fix that only one company stands to profit off of - the one that caused the problem in the first place.
How long until an invasive genetically modified crop starts wiping out other crops and the company that made it is the only one able to sell the product that kills it
[QUOTE=Zeke129;40794256]Because ecosystems are incredibly fragile and when you're introducing new plants to them with a patented genetic makeup you're manufacturing an ecological disaster with a fix that only one company stands to profit off of - the one that caused the problem in the first place.[/quote]
Why is why farms are generally regulated to prevent this sort of thing.
You had this problem long before GM crops were introduced.
[quote]How long until an invasive genetically modified crop starts wiping out other crops and the same company that made it is the only one able to sell the product that kills it[/QUOTE]
I don't know man, you tell me when that happens.
It's like people think that GMO plants are gonna hop out of the ground and start burning other plants and attack children. They just yield more and/or are considerably more resistant to insect attacks. GMO is probably our best shot at solving starvation in the world.
And it wont wipe out other crops. When was the last time you heard of a plant going extinct?
Oh wait, yeah. We have no record of that.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;40794289]It's like people think that GMO plants are gonna hop out of the ground and start burning other plants and attack children. They just yield more and/or are considerably more resistant to insect attacks. GMO is probably our best shot at solving starvation in the world.[/QUOTE]
But it's science I don't understand, that scares me, ban it!
It's utterly bizarre how people whom see themselves as environmentalists push for progress in all areas, minus agriculture.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;40794289]
When was the last time you heard of a plant going extinct?
Oh wait, yeah. We have no record of that.[/QUOTE]
Gros Michel bananas were wiped out everywhere except Thailand and Cavendish bananas are facing the same problem
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40794279]Why is why farms are generally regulated to prevent this sort of thing.[/QUOTE]
there isn't much of an effective way to stop pollen from spreading out of a farm and into an ecosystem.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40794279]You had this problem long before GM crops were introduced.[/QUOTE]
GM crops have made it easier to plant different kinds of crops in different areas. previously, there were more environmental factors that limited which crops were planted where at what times of the year.
simply because a problem existed beforehand doesn't excuse the fact that GM crops have exacerbated it
I just don't get what people fear about GM food, really.
I mean the Monsato monopoly, ok, but that's a business thing, not part of the GM idea at all. We are eating GM food for thousands of years, every form of breeding is genetic manipulation.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40794350]It's utterly bizarre how people whom see themselves as environmentalists push for progress in all areas, minus agriculture.[/QUOTE]
because modern agricultural methods are made to extract the most food out of a place at one time, not to consider the balance of a natural ecosystem.
it's utterly bizzare how people who only see things through the purview of economics will try to start debates about ecology.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;40794368]Gros Michel bananas were wiped out everywhere except Thailand and Cavendish bananas are facing the same problem[/QUOTE]
Displaced by GM crops?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;40794368]Gros Michel bananas were wiped out everywhere except Thailand and Cavendish bananas are facing the same problem[/QUOTE]
These are breeds we created in the first place.
[QUOTE=joes33431;40794386]because modern agricultural methods are made to extract the most food out of a place at one time, not to consider the balance of a natural ecosystem.
it's utterly bizzare how people who only see things through the purview of economics will try to start debates about ecology.[/QUOTE]
Does it not occur to you that if land is made more productive, you will need less land to grow food on?
If GM foods double output, you will need half as much land.
[editline]26th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=joes33431;40794377]GM crops have made it easier to plant different kinds of crops in different areas. previously, there were more environmental factors that limited which crops were planted where at what times of the year.[/quote]
And that's good.
[quote]simply because a problem existed beforehand doesn't excuse the fact that GM crops have exacerbated it[/QUOTE]
They haven't really. When has an invasive GM crop wiped out others?
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;40794289]It's like people think that GMO plants are gonna hop out of the ground and start burning other plants and attack children. They just yield more and/or are considerably more resistant to insect attacks. GMO is probably our best shot at solving starvation in the world.[/QUOTE]
the problem isn't the modification itself, it's the kinds of modifications and the practices used to modify them that get people worried. stopping is not the solution, changing to be more environmentally-sound is.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;40794289]And it wont wipe out other crops. When was the last time you heard of a plant going extinct?
Oh wait, yeah. We have no record of that.[/QUOTE]
we never hear of it because we only have a small percentage of total species on record and there isn't much public awareness for the extinction of much else than cute fuzzy animals.
What kind of GM modification would remove a similar plant?
They are GM to be resistent to diseases/plagues that come from our monocultural intensive way of growing them in the first place.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40794392]Displaced by GM crops?[/QUOTE]
No, the monoculture killed it because it made it vulnerable to viruses.
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;40794464]No, the monoculture killed it because it made it vulnerable to viruses.[/QUOTE]
Killed what?
[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;40794464]No, the monoculture killed it because it made it vulnerable to viruses.[/QUOTE]
Ah, so GM crops aren't to blame, just wacky humans.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40794402]Does it not occur to you that if land is made more productive, you will need less land to grow food on?
If GM foods double output, you will need half as much land.[/quote]
except that people are likely not going to stop using half of their land
instead they're going to grow gm crops in the same amount of space and double their profit margins
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40794402]They haven't really. When has an invasive GM crop wiped out others?[/QUOTE]
i'm not sure, as a direct consequence of genetic modification at least, but simply because something hasn't happened before does not mean that it won't happen.
[editline]26th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40794483]Ah, so GM crops aren't to blame, just wacky humans.[/QUOTE]
i'd like to be clear again that i'm not against genetic modification, just the misuse of it.
[QUOTE=joes33431;40794527]except that people are likely not going to stop using half of their land
instead they're going to grow gm crops in the same amount of space and double their profit margins[/quote]
But then supply would rapidly outstrip demand and they would be forced to scale back production.
Seriously, this sort of thing has actually happened. Britain saw a lot of agricultural land fall out of use during the industrial revolution.
[quote]i'm not sure, as a direct consequence of genetic modification at least, but simply because something hasn't happened before does not mean that it won't happen.[/QUOTE]
So essentially you have nothing?
[editline]26th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=joes33431;40794527]i'd like to be clear again that i'm not against genetic modification, just the misuse of it.[/QUOTE]
Which seems to be use of it for profit.
[QUOTE=joes33431;40794527]
i'm not sure, as a direct consequence of genetic modification at least, but simply because something hasn't happened before does not mean that it won't happen.
[/QUOTE]
Well maybe we try not to condemn a complete new tech and instead concentrate on using the benefits and preventing the dangers?
You know, the smart thing to do.
Of course Monsato-esque politics are shit but that is in no way fault of the GM tech.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40794556]But then supply would rapidly outstrip demand and they would be forced to scale back production.
Seriously, this sort of thing has actually happened. Britain saw a lot of agricultural land fall out of use during the industrial revolution.[/QUOTE]
the environmental damage is still going to be done in the period between. it's going to take a while for agriculture to scale back when you're dealing with impoverished nations.
demographic transition does not happen overnight
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;40794556]So essentially you have nothing?[/QUOTE]
essentially, i'm too lazy to go and look for evidence and i fully take responsibility for that as a pitfall in my argument.
[editline]26th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killuah;40794708]Well maybe we try not to condemn a complete new tech and instead concentrate on using the benefits and preventing the dangers?
You know, the smart thing to do.
Of course Monsato-esque politics are shit but that is in no way fault of the GM tech.[/QUOTE]
again, i'm not against using GMO crops. but fully embracing a new technology from a company that's known to do very shitty things is not very smart either, yet it's something that some people seem to be doing.
[QUOTE=joes33431;40794715]the environmental damage is still going to be done in the period between. it's going to take a while for agriculture to scale back when you're dealing with impoverished nations.[/quote]
Why not try now?
[quote]demographic transition does not happen overnight[/quote]
Prolonging it is like trying to command the tide to stop coming in.
[quote]essentially, i'm too lazy to go and look for evidence and i fully take responsibility for that as a pitfall in my argument.[/quote]
At least that's honest.
[quote]again, i'm not against using GMO crops. but fully embracing a new technology from a company that's known to do very shitty things is not very smart either, yet it's something that some people seem to be doing.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it's because it offers a superior service?
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