• Iran has been "put on notice" - Trump
    48 replies, posted
[quote]"And by the way, with Iran, when they circle our beautiful destroyers with their little boats and they make gestures that our people -- that they shouldn't be allowed to make, they will be shot out of the water."[/quote] Skin this thin is godsend for anyone who can benefit from riling him up. You'd think people expect a real leader to be able to take some mud without flinching, but no, the "take no shit" attitude ramped to ridiculous extremes was appealing to electorate.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;51766852]Honestly I don't think he should be banned from Twitter, as much as I hate him. Nothing he has said violates their terms and services (as far as I know) and really the only reason anyone wants him off is simply because he is POTUS and saying these things. The terms and services apply to what is said, not who says it.[/QUOTE] It wouldn't be the first time twitter banned someone just because they had political beef. I kinda want them to just to watch the fallout and subsequent collapse of twitter.
[QUOTE=MissingGlitch;51766199]He'll just reinstate the draft and draft everyone above the age of 5.[/QUOTE] #draftourdaughters Considering his cabinet is full of his friends and powered by nepotism alone I'm not surprised he hasn't had his personal account taken away. Just disappointed.
How is this guy fit to be president? He's obviously mentally ill.
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;51775369]How is this guy fit to be president? He's obviously mentally ill.[/QUOTE] There are no standards at all for this job considering this question has been asked every second of every minute of every hour of every day of every week of every month since he started his campaign.
Hey neat, we can add Iran to the list of countries we'll go to war with over a temper tantrum. :suicide:
[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;51775369]How is this guy fit to be president? He's obviously mentally ill.[/QUOTE] That's one of the faults of the United States being primarily a republic, and even our founding fathers, such as Madison, remarked upon it: [QUOTE]The two great points of difference between a democracy and a republic are: first, the delegation of the government, in the latter, to a small number of citizens elected by the rest; secondly, the greater number of citizens, and greater sphere of country, over which the latter may be extended. The effect of the first difference is, on the one hand, to refine and enlarge the public views, by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens, whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of their country, and whose patriotism and love of justice will be least likely to sacrifice it to temporary or partial considerations. Under such a regulation, it may well happen that the public voice, pronounced by the representatives of the people, will be more consonant to the public good than if pronounced by the people themselves, convened for the purpose. On the other hand, the effect may be inverted. Men of factious tempers, of local prejudices, or of sinister designs, may, by intrigue, by corruption, or by other means, first obtain the suffrages, and then betray the interests, of the people. The question resulting is, whether small or extensive republics are more favorable to the election of proper guardians of the public weal; and it is clearly decided in favor of the latter by two obvious considerations... [I]Federalist Papers No. 10[/I] [/QUOTE] [I]Anyone[/I] can be President. Even Kanye West. It's up to the people to decide who represents them. I guess this time the populace decided to elect someone who doesn't know what they're doing.
[QUOTE=hippowombat;51776278]Hey neat, we can add Iran to the list of countries we'll go to war with over a temper tantrum. :suicide:[/QUOTE] To be fair, it's not like the country's leadership wasn't already calling upon the death of America all the time. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUkm4llCDic[/media] And that was with the nicer Obama administration making deals.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51776364]To be fair, it's not like the country's leadership wasn't already calling upon the death of America all the time. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUkm4llCDic[/media] And that was with the nicer Obama administration making deals.[/QUOTE] They literally have a dedicated holiday to chanting 'Death to America' (since 1987) , as well as every Friday during prayer and some public events accompanied with burning the American flag. I don't think having a country like this 'put on notice' is anything unwarranted.
Iran's populace in general is probably one of the most progressive in the Middle East. Their government just sucks. The last election they voted in a reformist party majority. Once the current leader dies, they get to choose the next one, so hopefully Iran can change for the better soon enough.
Before the election I wagered that Trump would be the actual worst at foreign diplomacy because he's an immature cunt who doesn't know anything [I]but[/I] pathetic shit talking, because that's all he knew during the campaign, so he'd end up pissing off the foreign leaders of tons of countries with that same behavior and every day he proves me right
[QUOTE=Aldawolf;51776447][b]Iran's populace in general is probably one of the most progressive in the Middle East.[/b] Their government just sucks. The last election they voted in a reformist party majority. Once the current leader dies, they get to choose the next one, so hopefully Iran can change for the better soon enough.[/QUOTE] This is what a lot of people don't understand. Iran has a very young population. I think 60% of the population is under 35. Most young Iranians are very liberal and progressive and desperately want Iran to become more westernized and open to the world. You can take down Iran by covertly supporting opposition movements that have literally zero chance of becoming full retard Islamists because they're in opposition to the full retard Islamists.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;51776774]This is what a lot of people don't understand. Iran has a very young population. I think 60% of the population is under 35. Most young Iranians are very liberal and progressive and desperately want Iran to become more westernized and open to the world. You can take down Iran by covertly supporting opposition movements that have literally zero chance of becoming full retard Islamists because they're in opposition to the full retard Islamists.[/QUOTE] But then we might end up with something even worse than radical Islamists... [I]capitalists![/I]
[QUOTE=Tudd;51776364]To be fair, it's not like the country's leadership wasn't already calling upon the death of America all the time. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUkm4llCDic[/media] And that was with the nicer Obama administration making deals.[/QUOTE] So the appropriate solution to a country with a high number of young people currently upholding more liberal values in their regions, in stark contrast to the actions of their religious government of old men that will die soon anyways, is to alienate all of them so they too will not want to be friends with the west. Genius. Edit: Like, literally, all we gotta do is wait for their current shah (they guy responsible for all this nonsense) to finally die, and they will start taking leaps forward. all we have to do is not screw them entirely over in the next few years so they wont hate us. this [I]shouldnt[/I] be so hard
[QUOTE=da space core;51777146] Edit: Like, literally, all we gotta do is wait for their current shah (they guy responsible for all this nonsense) to finally die, and they will start taking leaps forward. all we have to do is not screw them entirely over in the next few years so they wont hate us. this [I]shouldnt[/I] be so hard[/QUOTE] The death of the ayatollah isn't the be all end all for reform in Iran though. He's chosen by the assembly of experts. Half of which is elected by the people, half are appointed by the ayatollah. The ones who are elected must be approved by the ayatollah before they can run. There's a decent amount of reformers in the assembly, but there's no real reformist candidates for becoming the supreme leader. The supreme leader has to be a scholar of Islam, so you can imagine most of them are still pretty conservative.
[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;51777195]The death of the ayatollah isn't the be all end all for reform in Iran though. He's chosen by the assembly of experts. Half of which is elected by the people, [B]half are appointed by the ayatollah[/B]. The ones who are elected must be approved by the ayatollah before they can run. There's a decent amount of reformers in the assembly, but there's no real reformist candidates for becoming the supreme leader. The supreme leader has to be a scholar of Islam, so you can imagine most of them are still pretty conservative.[/QUOTE] ah, I didn't know that little detail. so it will take a bit longer than I hoped. still, my ultimate point stands. Iran's demographic today continues to push to a more western nation and will continue to do so. I hope that they will soon be able to push all this religious nonsense out of the window through governmental reform
[QUOTE=ChinChilla;51776399][QUOTE=Tudd;51776364]To be fair, it's not like the country's leadership wasn't already calling upon the death of America all the time. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUkm4llCDic[/media] And that was with the nicer Obama administration making deals.[/QUOTE] They literally have a dedicated holiday to chanting 'Death to America' (since 1987) , as well as every Friday during prayer and some public events accompanied with burning the American flag. I don't think having a country like this 'put on notice' is anything unwarranted.[/QUOTE] This is the kind of attitude you get when you take other countries at face value and can't be bothered to learn anything. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_to_America[/url] Iran actually looked up to the US when the UK and Russia were dicking around with their country back in the 18-1900's but if you had read the post Isak made directed at you in the original thread about the Muslim Ban you'd know why they don't trust us anymore. [QUOTE=.Isak.;51746840]The United States ousted popular [B]socialist[/B] Mossadegh from Iran because he tried to nationalize British oil holdings. Modernist, progressive, secular Islam was a major movement in the late 1800s. The US took one look at Mossadegh, said "policy of containment we have to stop communism," and coup'd him. Progressive Islam has been dying since then. Look at Chinese history, assuming you're somewhat familiar with it as a person studying history who traveled to China. The west tore the country apart through colonialism, imperialism, and so on. We crushed the Boxer Rebellions, we smuggled opium into the country for massive profits, and we crushed any opposition - all while preaching about how great democracy was. We did the exact same to the Middle East, ousting [I]democratically-elected[/I] socialists and replacing them with religious autocrats. Both China and the Arab world had the critical question of "how do we stop these countries and retain our freedom?" In the Middle East, there was a huge argument about that - progressives tended to favor adopting certain western ideals, viewing them as a way to gain enough power to compete with western imperialism. China did the same - at first only by adopting western military ideals, and later (once that failed) forming a Republic and abandoning many traditional systems and institutions (like civil service exams, etc). We didn't give the Middle East autonomy. We stuck our dick right in their democracies and forced autocracy for our own interests, all while saying that democracy is the best thing ever. Osama bin Laden wrote explicitly about how the 9/11 attacks were meant as a wake-up call to the American people to recognize how the American government was abusing the people and institutions in those countries - not because he hated democracy and freedom, but because he hated how the west happily blocked the ability of Middle Eastern states to gain freedom and true autonomy - all while preaching the virtues of democracy and freedom. We bolstered Gaddafi until he went against our interests. We're still bolstering the House of Saud - until they go against our interests or run out of oil. Both are dictatorial and quintessentially undemocratic. People leave those countries in search of socioeconomic mobility and democracy and a way to live a good life [I]because we've denied them democracy and forced autocracy over them for resources and ideological battles for over a century.[/I][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Splarg!;51777320]This is the kind of attitude you get when you take other countries at face value and can't be bothered to learn anything. [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_to_America[/url] Iran actually looked up to the US when the UK and Russia were dicking around with their country back in the 18-1900's but if you had read the post Isak made directed at you in the original thread about the Muslim Ban you'd know why they don't trust us anymore.[/QUOTE] What? I know why they don't trust us. They don't trust us because we removed their democratically elected leader and put one of ours there instead, while at the same time completely destabilizing the region. If I were them I would hate us too.
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