GOP Readies Swift Obamacare Repeal With No Replacement Ready - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Whomobile;51599462]Honestly that's pretty much what the Liberals do here in Australia, blame the last government (Labor) for their fuck ups. It would be funny but a lot of people actually believe it. They've won 2 elections and they're still blaming Labor for a lot of the problems they've caused.[/QUOTE] I just moved to the U.S. from Australia so trust me, I'm bracing myself for another Tony Abbotalypse.

[QUOTE=Disgruntled;51598883]I like how you all think the Republican voting base won't eat this up despite it directly hurting them. They've already proven that they care about nothing except their tribe "winning" no matter the cost. Every bad thing that results is the fault of the other [/QUOTE] Pretty much. It's easy to see since none of the usual right-wing protectors are going to enter a thread like this when it's easier to talk about "stupid liberals!" bait articles.

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;51598354]You fucking what?[/QUOTE] I don't know what you're talking about, that extra 353 billion deficit is from that mess obongo left us. /s You know that's exactly the bullshit excuse GOP is going to give when our deficit vastly increases over the next +4 years.

[QUOTE=Chonch;51599497]I'd appreciate opinions from anyone who works in insurance: why exactly do we need to have a federally-sponsored backup plan?[/QUOTE] because theres 20+ million people who stand to lose their health insurance? ?? ???????

The US is in so much shit, and is probably going to drown in it. I will never understand how the country have lasted this long with politicians/politics like that. There is a limit to how far you can push it, but the US, and the GOP in particular is quickly closing in.

[QUOTE=Chonch;51599497]I'd appreciate opinions from anyone who works in insurance: why exactly do we need to have a federally-sponsored backup plan?[/QUOTE] to make sure our weak weary and old don't get sucked dry for all their money and then left to (literally) die excruciating deaths?

[QUOTE=Chonch;51599497]I'd appreciate opinions from anyone who works in insurance: why exactly do we need to have a federally-sponsored backup plan? [editline]29th December 2016[/editline] It's been the reverse for the last eight years, so I'm pretty used to it by now. This happens every cycle.[/QUOTE] I don't do private health insurance so it's not my wheelhouse. My guess however would be that it's due to how insurance works conceptually at its base. Insurance is a pool. We all pay in to a large pool that then distributes it where it needs to go. Private health insurers with a larger base of coverage and a larger diversification of risks will lower the costs. However from the stories I've heard from some hospital workers in the states I know, price gouging from the companies has occurred instead, ideally it does lower the costs though.

[QUOTE=Chonch;51599497]I'd appreciate opinions from anyone who works in insurance: why exactly do we need to have a federally-sponsored backup plan? [/QUOTE] Oh so now they want to listen to experts lmfao. Do you know how many people will lose health insurance if 'Obongocare' gets repealed? The fact that you trust corporate enough to provide reasonably priced health insurance, with less gub'ment regulation, to individuals in lower-wealth brackets is atonishing and it shows me you have never had to work a day in your life, just cruising down the highway as millions of Americans would be willing to kill themselves working 2-3 jobs a day for a living and can't afford to go to the hospital when they need it more than you do.

My problem with Obamacare is that it's probably one of the worst solutions to health care we've implemented to date. It forces you to buy insurance from private companies, who are forced to provide 'coverage' to people with pre-existing conditions, on top of providing for people who are unable to get their own insurance. Obviously insurance premiums were going to sky-rocket to be basically unaffordable for the people who actually pay into it, and these insurance companies have to over-price their insurance to cover for risk factors involved as well since they can no longer choose who they insure. Our system isn't designed to work that way, so don't get salty at people who are justifiably mad that they now have to pay way more for insurance that does way less. single-payer would be way better than this horse-shit. It's exactly this kind of half-solution garbage that pisses me off. This has hurt way more people than it has helped and it's made healthcare less "affordable" than ever, what we need desperately is reform in the pharma and medical industry, insurance wasn't the problem to begin with.

[QUOTE=soulharvester;51602559]My problem with Obamacare is that it's probably one of the worst solutions to health care we've implemented to date. It forces you to buy insurance from private companies, who are forced to provide 'coverage' to people with pre-existing conditions, on top of providing for people who are unable to get their own insurance. Obviously insurance premiums were going to sky-rocket to be basically unaffordable for the people who actually pay into it, and these insurance companies have to over-price their insurance to cover for risk factors involved as well since they can no longer choose who they insure. Our system isn't designed to work that way, so don't get salty at people who are justifiably mad that they now have to pay way more for insurance that does way less. single-payer would be way better than this horse-shit. It's exactly this kind of half-solution garbage that pisses me off. This has hurt way more people than it has helped and it's made healthcare less "affordable" than ever, what we need desperately is reform in the pharma and medical industry, insurance wasn't the problem to begin with.[/QUOTE] You're not really likely to see the republicans or democrats make any real efforts to fix the pharma, and healthcare industry.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51602044]I don't do private health insurance so it's not my wheelhouse. My guess however would be that it's due to how insurance works conceptually at its base. Insurance is a pool. We all pay in to a large pool that then distributes it where it needs to go. Private health insurers with a larger base of coverage and a larger diversification of risks will lower the costs. However from the stories I've heard from some hospital workers in the states I know, price gouging from the companies has occurred instead, ideally it does lower the costs though.[/QUOTE] I just can't wrap my head around why that is, though. Surely there must be more to it than greed if private insurance groups are willing to risk competing with the government in the future to line their own pockets in the present. I'm not always for this kind of intervention but some of these larger companies could stand a little more scrutiny, perhaps even a break-up. [QUOTE=Kagu;51602441]Oh so now they want to listen to experts lmfao. Do you know how many people will lose health insurance if 'Obongocare' gets repealed? The fact that you trust corporate enough to provide reasonably priced health insurance, with less gub'ment regulation, to individuals in lower-wealth brackets is atonishing and it shows me you have never had to work a day in your life, just cruising down the highway as millions of Americans would be willing to kill themselves working 2-3 jobs a day for a living and can't afford to go to the hospital when they need it more than you do.[/QUOTE] Quit this. You know nothing about me.

[QUOTE=Chonch;51602977]I just can't wrap my head around why that is, though. Surely there must be more to it than greed if private insurance groups are willing to risk competing with the government in the future to line their own pockets in the present. I'm not always for this kind of intervention but some of these larger companies could stand a little more scrutiny, perhaps even a break-up. Quit this. You know nothing about me.[/QUOTE] it's greed its just incredible greed

[QUOTE=soulharvester;51602559]My problem with Obamacare is that it's probably one of the worst solutions to health care we've implemented to date. It forces you to buy insurance from private companies, who are forced to provide 'coverage' to people with pre-existing conditions, on top of providing for people who are unable to get their own insurance. Obviously insurance premiums were going to sky-rocket to be basically unaffordable for the people who actually pay into it, and these insurance companies have to over-price their insurance to cover for risk factors involved as well since they can no longer choose who they insure. Our system isn't designed to work that way, so don't get salty at people who are justifiably mad that they now have to pay way more for insurance that does way less. single-payer would be way better than this horse-shit. It's exactly this kind of half-solution garbage that pisses me off. This has hurt way more people than it has helped and it's made healthcare less "affordable" than ever, what we need desperately is reform in the pharma and medical industry, insurance wasn't the problem to begin with.[/QUOTE] Healthcare triage has a good episode on it, which I shall see if I can find, but largely obamacare is making the best of a shitty environment. It has done a good job of getting more people properly insured, which was it's main goal. [Del]Despite the claims, iirchealthcare costs haven't really increased above the rate they were before[/del] I can only find him saying below the rate predicted, possibly they did but I can't find a source for that.. The problem is that to include people who are high risk so as not to make chronic conditions bankrupting it needs a lot of healthy people to cover this, hence the individual mandate. An NHS style system solves that problem but within the private system obamacare did what it set out to do. [video]https://youtu.be/Ijn8DyTisV8[/video]

[QUOTE=Chonch;51602977]I just can't wrap my head around why that is, though. Surely there must be more to it than greed if private insurance groups are willing to risk competing with the government in the future to line their own pockets in the present. I'm not always for this kind of intervention but some of these larger companies could stand a little more scrutiny, perhaps even a break-up. Quit this. You know nothing about me.[/QUOTE] There's nothing to scrutinize. This is pure and simple greed, combined with amorality.

[QUOTE=27X;51603083]There's nothing to scrutinize. This is pure and simple greed, combined with amorality.[/QUOTE] Not really but you're free to over simplify it to a sickening level

Yes, entirely really. Auditors and adjusters literally consider you a number on a page and nothing else, and handlers at least three major insurance companies are directed to automatically dispute your claim if there isn't direct photo or video evidence that a lawyer has seen. On the medical side, same three companies have lists of medical providers that they will attempt at all instances to refer you to irrespective of your condition or its gravity, irrespective of whom your PMC actually is or is accredited by. I have watched two people just this year die from cancer because of these policies, and these people even had the means to pay outside of their policies, they rather foolishly chose not to. I know one other person whom had the good sense to transfer to the CTCA over the objections of her insurance company and, what a surprise, she'll have a much better chance of survival because she's not using insurance mill specialists to get her work done. The american system is rife with neglect and disdain, period. It emphasis profits over care, and you are deluded if you think otherwise, your employment notwithremoteevenkindofstanding. You are a number on a page, and they want that page as blank as possible, save for the amount in the upper right corner.

[QUOTE=Chonch;51602977]Quit this. You know nothing about me.[/QUOTE] I'm not just trying to get a rise out of you, I'm serious when I say the American insurance companies are fucked. You have not experienced it firsthand but insurance companies will also stop at nothing to reimburse you nothing either, even if you weren't at fault. American insurance is a fucking nightmare to deal with, and privatizing it even further is a step in the wrong direction.

So I just want to re-iterate though I do work in insurance, I am canadian, and therefore don't sell medical insurance so I can't speak to the specifics of how the system in the US works. The main complaints seem to be largely that it will do anything to deny you, and will do anything to refuse you service. Insurers in the US must have a different binding set of documents at their heart because this isn't really how health insurance works anywhere else AFAIK. The solution isn't a simple one, and wouldn't be easy to implement. Insurance is the cheapest, when it is the most diverse in it's acquisition of risks. If the entire 320 million odd people in the US all had basic public health insurance, those costs would be the lowest I think the US would have ever seen. I know that seems paradoxical to many people who really dislike the idea of government health insurance but that is at it's base, how it works conceptually. The underwriting process(who gets approved or denied) would have to be reformed significantly as well. Under the current system with the ACA no one can be denied, but that has a significant cost associated with it that shouldn't be there. I believe this is because of the legal requirement to hold insurance of some form now. If rather than being 'forced' to carry and pay for it, a different method might be more preferable, what that is would be very hard to describe in the american system. Once the ACA is repealed, with nothing in it's stead, your insurance companies are going to do what they've always done. And there won't be anything in it's place to force them to take risks, or force them to keep premiums reasonable. That's the real kicker though. The US is just spending more money than you should be for what it is you're getting. There needs to be a reform from supply side all the way to the insurance side of the health care industry to minimize price gouging and profitering, as anti capitalist as that is it's an option to help minimize the interference of some of the most deceptively powerful corporations that are around.

^ what the issue is is that most american insurance is no longer owned by a regional or local company, they all have been consolidated into large health networks, and the GOP lambasted the ACA for causing that but that was a trend that was going to continue anyways. another important thing companies will be able to do if they repeal without replacing is reinstate lifetime benefit caps which makes all those high risk insurers they picked up under the ACA will get swiftly capped and booted. see from what ive read from both sides is that we have a fundimental difference in what health insurance should do. the republicans argue its only there for that heart attack or stroke, to prevent financial ruin and anything extra is just generosity. the democrats argue that in absence of a public healthcare system, insurance is there to provide all your healthcare from all medications to all doctors visits. from someone who has seen the costs of our healthcare system up close, i personally believe most of the GOP policy buffs should go get cancer and try to pay it out of pocket because healthcare is not setup here for individuals to pay for anything anymore, the whole price system is built to cater to insirance companies, so its rediculous to even contend that people should pay out their pocket for everything until they suddenly cannot work

[QUOTE]House conservatives want a two-year fuse for the repeal. Republican leaders prefer at least three years, and there has been discussion of putting it off until after the 2020 elections, staffers said. (...)• To cushion the political blow of upending the system,•party leaders are putting out a stream of statements portraying Obamacare as collapsing on its own.[/QUOTE] This is what makes my blood boil. If you're going to do something shitty at LEAST own up to it.