'Evil and Orwellian' – America's right turns its fire on Britain's NHS - Polidicks

[QUOTE=James*;16674720]Privatised organisations are allowed to discriminate because we don't HAVE to give them money, like we do a government one.[/QUOTE] Ok, now I get it. We've gotten back to the base issue at hand, somehow.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16674504]It does in the plan here. The problem with that is the government has no place discriminating. Everyone is paying for the service equally, everyone should get equal preference.[/QUOTE] No they shouldn't, if organs are in short supply people who didn't destroy their first one should get priority. It's that simple.

[QUOTE=BaconDioxide;16674739]Ok.[/QUOTE] See this is why I need a television program. My conversations don't end in "cut his mic." They end in OK. [editline]04:26PM[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;16674772]No they shouldn't, if organs are in short supply people who didn't destroy their first one should get priority. It's that simple.[/QUOTE] Then not everyone should have to pay for it. You shouldn't have to pay for a service you can't use. If you get refused a transplant you should be given the money it would cost to have that transplant done as a refund.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16674775]Then not everyone should have to pay for it. You shouldn't have to pay for a service you can't use. If you get refused a transplant you should be given the money it would cost to have that transplant done as a refund.[/QUOTE] Hey, that's a good idea.

If anything smokers should be more entitled with all the extra taxes they pay :v:

[QUOTE=Lankist;16674543]The alternative is improving upon our current insurance system and punishing insurance companies for the shit they pull. We don't need a national healthcare system, just a better method of insurance. I would treat insurance companies like private companies but with how many different laws they have lobbied into place, I consider them an effective branch of the government. [editline]04:18PM[/editline] Fuck insurance companies honestly. They've gotten away with too much bullshit. If they wanted to be able to pull this penny counting shit they shouldn't have lobbied so many laws into place.[/QUOTE] Yes. Private insurance isn't an inherently bad idea, it's just that when it comes down to it and they have to pay, they try as hard as possible not to have to. Back in the days when some Italian fisherman is getting his boat insured in case it gets fucked up in a storm, insurance worked perfectly well for both parties. The fisherman's mind is at ease because he knows if anything bad happens, he's covered. The insurer knows that the chances of anything happening are pretty low, so he's probably going to just be getting money without having to do jack shit. But nowadays, when you're insuring millions of people, shit will happen and you WILL have to pay, so they try to get out of paying as much as they possibly can. Sure it makes sense from their end, but it's a dick move and the person on the insurance gets shafted.

[QUOTE=BaconDioxide;16674822]Hey, that's a good idea.[/QUOTE] Fuck yes it's a good idea. If we want to mandate happy feely health we should at least give somebody their cash back when we say "Sorry you're fucked we could help you but we don't want to."

[QUOTE=James*;16674871]If anything smokers should be more entitled with all the extra taxes they pay :v:[/QUOTE] Hey, that's another good idea! :v: Ehh, maybe that'd be defeating the purpose.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;16674872]Yes. Private insurance isn't an inherently bad idea, it's just that when it comes down to it and they have to pay, they try as hard as possible not to have to. Back in the days when some Italian fisherman is getting his boat insured in case it gets fucked up in a storm, insurance worked perfectly well for both parties. The fisherman's mind is at ease because he knows if anything bad happens, he's covered. The insurer knows that the chances of anything happening are pretty low, so he's probably going to just be getting money without having to do jack shit. But nowadays, when you're insuring millions of people, shit will happen and you WILL have to pay, so they try to get out of paying as much as they possibly can. Sure it makes sense from their end, but it's a dick move and the person on the insurance gets shafted.[/QUOTE] Especially when they spend millions of dollars lobbying for new laws.

Every thread is a "Lankist is always right" thread.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16674775]See this is why I need a television program. My conversations don't end in "cut his mic." They end in OK. [editline]04:26PM[/editline] Then not everyone should have to pay for it. You shouldn't have to pay for a service you can't use. If you get refused a transplant you should be given the money it would cost to have that transplant done as a refund.[/QUOTE] I agree with that, but there is no way it would happen.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;16674872]Yes. Private insurance isn't an inherently bad idea, it's just that when it comes down to it and they have to pay, they try as hard as possible not to have to. Back in the days when some Italian fisherman is getting his boat insured in case it gets fucked up in a storm, insurance worked perfectly well for both parties. The fisherman's mind is at ease because he knows if anything bad happens, he's covered. The insurer knows that the chances of anything happening are pretty low, so he's probably going to just be getting money without having to do jack shit. But nowadays, when you're insuring millions of people, shit will happen and you WILL have to pay, so they try to get out of paying as much as they possibly can. Sure it makes sense from their end, but it's a dick move and the person on the insurance gets shafted.[/QUOTE] So basically healthcare insurance companies act like all other insurance companies? I guess that someone dying as a result of their insurance company not paying out is worse than not being compensated for your stolen bike though

[QUOTE=yawmwen;16674927]I agree with that, but there is no way it would happen.[/QUOTE] Which is why we need to come up with a better plan rather than playing this stupid "GET ON BOARD OR SHUT UP" game the Democrats are playing. [editline]04:34PM[/editline] I don't want to get on board that boat looks really rickety. [editline]04:34PM[/editline] Does that boat even sail why should i get on board i want a better boat [editline]04:34PM[/editline] that boat has a hole in it

I am Lankist. [editline]04:35PM[/editline] I can't consolidate all my thoughts at once [editline]04:35PM[/editline] So I edit my posts [editline]04:36PM[/editline] A lot.

Lankist, your excessive automerging is playing havoc with the board. I actually managed to catch your post before it automerged.

Haha. Actually I came up with a really good argument though. Do you set sail on a boat that has a hole in it on the pretense that we will repair the hole at sea?

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;16675013]I am Lankist. [editline]04:35PM[/editline] I can't consolidate all my thoughts at once [editline]04:35PM[/editline] So I edit my posts [editline]04:36PM[/editline] A lot.[/QUOTE] Yes [editline]04:35pm[/editline] You are [editline]04:35pm[/editline] correct.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16675051]Haha. Actually I came up with a really good argument though. Do you set sail on a boat that has a hole in it on the pretense that we will repair the hole at sea?[/QUOTE] What is the boat metaphorically?

[QUOTE=Lankist;16675051]Haha. Actually I came up with a really good argument though. Do you set sail on a boat that has a hole in it on the pretense that we will repair the hole at sea?[/QUOTE] Maaaaybe.

Guys really [editline]04:38PM[/editline] How are you not [editline]04:38PM[/editline] Having your automerges broken [editline]04:38PM[/editline] When I try to automerge [editline]04:38PM[/editline] It gets broken in less than ten seconds. [editline]04:39PM[/editline] Holy shit my automerge is unbroken [editline]04:39PM[/editline] This is awesome

The main reason I support the current healthcare bill is pretty simple. I think a working, efficient system will come sooner should we actually start on it now, even if the current proposed bill is mediocre at best. If no action is taken and it's just put off endlessly, we'll never get a good system any time soon. Even though there's no short supply of great reasons not to pass this bill, the popular consensus among the average American right now in opposition to it is fear based, rather than logical. Getting the system working would be a lot easier if it wasn't an entirely new concept to everyone. P.S. The setting sail on a broken boat metaphor sounds good, but I don't think it's entirely accurate. If the boat doesn't set sail soon, a bunch of the folks on lower ground are going to drown. That metaphor isn't very good either... too lazy to backspace.

[QUOTE=johnlukeg;16675190]The main reason I support the current healthcare bill is pretty simple. I think a working, efficient system will come sooner should we actually start on it now, even if the current proposed bill is mediocre at best. If no action is taken and it's just put off endlessly, we'll never get a good system any time soon. Even though there's no short supply of great reasons not to pass this bill, the popular consensus among the average American right now in opposition to it is fear based, rather than logical. Getting the system working would be a lot easier if it wasn't an entirely new concept to everyone.[/QUOTE] So you DO want to set sail in a boat with a hole in it under the pretense that the hole will be fixed at sea.

I don't think such a vast undertaking could be summarized with such a simple metaphor in the first place.

It being such a vast and complex undertaking doesn't do anything but solidify the point. Nothing should be done until we have a legitimately good plan of action. An NHS is not a legitimately good plan of action, insurance and healthcare reform are. We need evolution, not revolution.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16674277] Don't tell me you think a lottery is literally a good idea.[/QUOTE] On severity.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;16675463]On severity.[/QUOTE] What if a smoker is more severely dependent than a non smoker?

I don't think the people writing these bills will ever come up with a good plan that has a chance of passing until the country has some experience with a national healthcare system, or they're willing to admit there are other countries we can study. "Setting sail with holes in the boat" would probably allow making the system efficient to be done more easily than if we had to enact it all at once. I'm almost positive that I'm not putting the right thoughts into computer here. It sounds a lot better in my head with all the ideas floating around at once, rather than the ones I foolishly pick to single out and write down.

That's like saying I don't think we'll know how to prevent tyranny until we try tyranny. That's called a leap of faith, something the government should not be taking. [editline]04:59PM[/editline] You don't learn how to swim by being shoved into a pool. [editline]05:00PM[/editline] Furthermore you don't learn how to fly by jumping off a cliff. [editline]05:00PM[/editline] More automerges fuck yer

[QUOTE=Lankist;16675617]That's like saying I don't think we'll know how to prevent tyranny until we try tyranny. That's called a leap of faith, something the government should not be taking. [editline]04:59PM[/editline] You don't learn how to swim by being shoved into a pool.[/QUOTE] That's how I learned how to swim... Should I be mad at my parents? Heh But no, "trying tyranny" is different from passing a basic healthcare bill. Once it's passed, it could be easier to expand upon it, annd turn it into a more efficient system. Otherwise, it will be an even more difficult fight than it is now to pass, and given how a lot of these interests are, I have a bad feeling that an even better bill would have a much lower chance to pass.

[QUOTE=johnlukeg;16675661]That's how I learned how to swim... Should I be mad at my parents? Heh[/QUOTE] My point is that there's a lot of danger associated with the government making that decision on a whim under the pretense that we'll work it out as we go. I mean danger for us, not them. We be the ones getting fucked over.