'Evil and Orwellian' – America's right turns its fire on Britain's NHS - Polidicks

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;16650199]I'm not quite sure how you can possibly characterize a system whose aim is to keep all people healthy as evil, much less Orwellian, but good thing no one takes the right seriously.[/QUOTE] the right takes the right seriously

Yeah - these 'cost issues' and 'debts' are rather exaggerated, I hate to say. In 2006, the NHS was said to have a debt of £1bn - 1% of it's annual budget. Very few large businesses would think of hitting a financial target to that degree of accuracy, even the treasury's average error in predicting the budget deficit is 2% of the government spending. The point is, it's not in crisis, it's not in anything like enough debt to be a 'bad' healthcare system, as far as money goes... (Thank you 'The Tiger That Isn't' - I recommend it heartily)

The term Orwellian is losing its meaning. I think people should not be allowed to use that word until they've read 1984. Orwellian.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;16650010]There are quite a few good arguments against universal healthcare (I don't actually agree with them, but they exist) so why don't republicans use those?[/QUOTE] Simple. Because they're Republicans. :smugdog::pipe:

[QUOTE=rilez;16650227]the right takes the right seriously[/QUOTE] Sadly enough

This is bullshit, we also have great private healthcare in Britan in addition to the NHS. It is FREE healthcare, I would rather get a free operation than pay £20,000+. My dad tried out the private health care for an operation, it was great, except it costed money.

A very efficient way to ruin America's image in Europe (like if republicans hadn't ruined it enough already).

Privatized health care is good for no one. If you're interested I can explain how private health care killed Michael Jackson, but I don't see why you would be. Plus, it's not relevant. I've just had this up my sleeve for a while and there hasn't been any more Michael Jackson threads. [editline]07:11PM[/editline] It's evil to give poor people medical attention. [editline]07:11PM[/editline] evil and orwellian

Also I've seen many politician criticizing their own nations healthcare, taxes, bureocracy or whatever, but I must say that the only nation that has a party I have seen that accuses another nation's infrastructure of being evil is the U.S. I'm not saying that the whole U.S. is bad since I know it's just some republicans (not even all republicans), I'm just wondering how the hell those guys still get votes.

What a load of crap, although the NHS has it's problems at least there is the option of free healthcare for those that can't afford private healthcare. And if you have a problem using the NHS then you can always pay for private treatment if you can afford it. [editline]08:33PM[/editline] What a load of crap, although the NHS has it's problems at least there is the option of free healthcare for those that can't afford private healthcare. And if you have a problem using the NHS then you can always pay for private treatment if you can afford it.

National healthcare in the UK is pretty good. Sure, at times you need to wait, but hell, it's free, and it more than gets the job done (In some cases, public healthcare over here has been better than private). I don't see why America can't run both systems. Sure it costs a fuckload of money, but at the same time, more people alive equals more money earned.

[QUOTE=B-hazard;16650425]This is bullshit, we also have great private healthcare in Britan in addition to the NHS. It is FREE healthcare, I would rather get a free operation than pay £20,000+. My dad tried out the private health care for an operation, it was great, except it costed money.[/QUOTE] It is naive to think that anything is free. Somebody's gotta pay for the equipment and services. In Britain's case its the taxpayers.

[QUOTE=Wolf_Marine;16650975]It is naive to think that anything is free. Somebody's gotta pay for the equipment and services. In Britain's case its the taxpayers.[/QUOTE] I think he means free as in that actual services to an individual are free.

[QUOTE=Wolf_Marine;16650975]It is naive to think that anything is free. Somebody's gotta pay for the equipment and services. In Britain's case its the taxpayers.[/QUOTE] what the fuck are you trying to say

[QUOTE=acds;16650760]Also I've seen many politician criticizing their own nations healthcare, taxes, bureocracy or whatever, but I must say that the only nation that has a party I have seen that accuses another nation's infrastructure of being evil is the U.S. I'm not saying that the whole U.S. is bad since I know it's just some republicans (not even all republicans), I'm just wondering how the hell those guys still get votes.[/QUOTE] Because of the south. This really only enforces my opinion that we should, instead of building a wall to keep out Mexicans, take giant chainsaws and extract the bible belt from the US. We could give them to Hungary or something. [editline]07:54PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Conscript;16651013]I think he means free as in that actual services to an individual are free.[/QUOTE] And that the point of the operation isn't to turn a profit.

[QUOTE=Capnscarlet;16650283]Yeah - these 'cost issues' and 'debts' are rather exaggerated, I hate to say. In 2006, the NHS was said to have a debt of £1bn - 1% of it's annual budget. Very few large businesses would think of hitting a financial target to that degree of accuracy, even the treasury's average error in predicting the budget deficit is 2% of the government spending. The point is, it's not in crisis, it's not in anything like enough debt to be a 'bad' healthcare system, as far as money goes... (Thank you 'The Tiger That Isn't' - I recommend it heartily)[/QUOTE] Not to mention that it's a government owned business so it's going to be incredibly inefficient.

[QUOTE=markg06;16651369]Not to mention that it's a government owned business so it's going to be incredibly inefficient.[/QUOTE] How brilliant. "It's not going to work so it's not going to work", if only the great debaters of history had your spearing wit.

Republican party is doing anything they can to criminalize the Democrats and further their goals for a Republican president in 2012. That's what they're doing.

[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;16651450]How brilliant. "It's not going to work so it's not going to work", if only the great debaters of history had your spearing wit.[/QUOTE] Did I say that? No. Government owned industries are highly dynamically inefficient because they know they can get away with it so fuck you and learn some economics.

[QUOTE=Nyaos;16651498]Republican party is doing anything they can to criminalize the Democrats and further their goals for a Republican president in 2012. That's what they're doing.[/QUOTE] You know what's bullshit? That their retarded tactics actually work. People are fucking stupid.

this list is old but i doubt things have changed much... [url]http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html[/url]

[QUOTE=markg06;16651529]Did I say that? No. Government owned industries are highly dynamically inefficient because they know they can get away with it so fuck you and learn some economics.[/QUOTE] Whatever you so oh master of run on sentences. I'll go do that the moment the phrase "highly dynamically inefficient" makes sense.

Wait, so it's wrong to put a price on human life even though that's pretty much what non socialised healthcare does to poor people?

We try our fucking best don't we? How come every time us British get attacked, we just sit here and take it... America should have remained a colony.

This just in America is a socialist country now, along with the majority of the world's nations. Shit just got real.

[QUOTE=jcallan;16651721]This just in America is a socialist country now, along with the other 90% of the worlds nations. Shit just got real.[/QUOTE] There are only 10 nations?

[QUOTE=thisispain;16651714]We try our fucking best don't we? How come every time us British get attacked, we just sit here and take it... America should have remained a colony.[/QUOTE] Stiff upper lip and all that

[QUOTE=Conscript;16651013]I think he means free as in that actual services to an individual are free.[/QUOTE] Not really. Several proposed ways of covering a new healthcare program are by hiking the taxes on tobacco and alcohol and refusing service to people who use them. Do you honestly think the demographic that smokes two packs a day and downs three glasses of scotch every other night can afford to be turned down and at the same time pay for a service they can't use? The problem is that it's ALREADY being used as a tool of social engineering, before it's even been implemented. [editline]04:15PM[/editline] The biggest problem is that the government has shown complete intention to mandate health, where it isn't the government's place to do that. The individual should be able to decide health for themselves, and they shouldn't be turned down by a state-run program just because they live their lives in such a way that the government deems wrong or unhealthy. Nor should they have to pay for it. But instead of improving the program by getting rid of those methods we are endorsing and expanding upon them. It's honestly reminiscent of the argument against gay marriage. Health is sacred. You can smoke if you want to but you can't get state health care.

[QUOTE=markg06;16651754]Stuff upper lip and all that[/QUOTE] Pip pip.

It's a fine idea in theory but the problem is that it's an excuse for the government to effectively mandate personal decisions. You can make your own choices unless they are unhealthy then you're just fucked. Of course don't even get me started on competence. I have absolutely no faith in the government to carry a plan like this out effectively. They are far too incompetent. I wouldn't trust the government with a dog's health, let alone my own.