'Evil and Orwellian' – America's right turns its fire on Britain's NHS - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Lankist;16673231]Including pot. [/QUOTE] A small price to pay for healthcare.

Of course if you want to make developing nations an exception than it isn't a right so much as a suggestion now is it? [editline]03:19PM[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;16673287]A small price to pay for healthcare.[/QUOTE] Not in my book it isn't. I think personal decisions always come before health and safety. You can be healthy all you want but it isn't exactly a free nation if the government gets to tell you what to do based on your health.

[QUOTE=snuwoods;16673039]You dismissed an entire political ideology. I thought that was pretty brazen. People do regard the right.[/QUOTE] Do you really not understand that when I say, "The right," I don't mean the man sitting at home reading the newspaper and thinking, "Hmm, Obama is proposing too much new spending too quickly for my taste," but the people who come out and say that the idea of healthcare provided to everyone is evil and Orwellian, or are you just trying to start a fight? [editline]03:20PM[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;16673287]A small price to pay for healthcare.[/QUOTE] No. Rights are not salable. Ever.

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;16673296]Do you really not understand that when I say, "The right," I don't mean the man sitting at home reading the newspaper and thinking, "Hmm, Obama is proposing too much new spending too quickly for my taste," but the people who come out and say that the idea of healthcare provided to everyone is evil and Orwellian, or are you just trying to start a fight?[/QUOTE] It isn't evil it's just bumbling, incompetent and untrustworthy. [editline]03:21PM[/editline] Trusting the government with medicine is like trusting a retarded child not to OD on Ibuprofen.

[QUOTE=snuwoods;16673197]Why is it a right? You could be a complete slob, and eat like a hog. Should someone have to take care of you now that you're in cardiac arrest? I don't think so.[/QUOTE] I do think so. What kind of mentality is that? "Oh, they were fat, they had it coming"

We have child-proof bottles for a reason. [editline]03:23PM[/editline] [QUOTE=BaconDioxide;16673364]I do think so. What kind of mentality is that? "Oh, they were fat, they had it coming"[/QUOTE] Entirely the mentality that this current plan has. If you are a smoker, drinker, drug user or overly obese individual you go to the back of the line or don't get treated at all. Furthermore it will be paid for by raising taxes on smoking, drinking, and "bad foods."

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;16673296]Do you really not understand that when I say, "The right," I don't mean the man sitting at home reading the newspaper and thinking, "Hmm, Obama is proposing too much new spending too quickly for my taste," but the people who come out and say that the idea of healthcare provided to everyone is evil and Orwellian, or are you just trying to start a fight?[/QUOTE] Most would assume when someone refers to the "right", they obviously mean those who subscribes to rightism. I'm pointing out a pretty egregious oversight, not looking for a fight. Argument, if you want to call it that, settled.

Holy shit I replied to your post before you posted it.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16673288] Not in my book it isn't. I think personal decisions always come before health and safety. You can be healthy all you want but it isn't exactly a free nation if the government gets to tell you what to do based on your health.[/QUOTE] So it's better to smoke pot when you're dead then smoke it illegally while you are taken care of.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16673231] Furthermore making health an enforceable right is entirely impossible and fairly oppressive for developing nations. [editline]03:18PM[/editline] Hey guys I know you want to have an established electrical grid but right now you don't have very many hospitals so chip chop chip[/QUOTE] Why are we talking about developing nations now?

[QUOTE=snuwoods;16673382]Most would assume when someone refers to the "right", they obviously mean those who subscribes to rightism.[/QUOTE] Because the average rightist is definitely shouting that Obama's healthcare plan is evil and that Obama is a dirty pinko of course.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16673387]Holy shit I replied to your post before you posted it.[/QUOTE] what the hell

[QUOTE=BaconDioxide;16673397]Why are we talking about developing nations now?[/QUOTE] You referenced the United Nations Universal Declaration of Rights. The one that supposedly applies universally. They call them rights but they treat them like suggestions. [editline]03:25PM[/editline] [QUOTE=yawmwen;16673389]So it's better to smoke pot when you're dead then smoke it illegally while you are taken care of.[/QUOTE] It's better to have medical bills than have lost a right. Maybe you would prefer to trust the government with treating you right and fairly but I wouldn't. Also drug users do not get treatment.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16673288]Of course if you want to make developing nations an exception than it isn't a right so much as a suggestion now is it? [editline]03:19PM[/editline] Not in my book it isn't. [B]I think personal decisions always come before health and safety.[B][/B] You can be healthy all you want but it isn't exactly a free nation if the government gets to tell you what to do based on your health.[/QUOTE] Sure, as long as the person in question knows the consequence of his own actions. The problem is that most don't, and have no idea of the repercussions that their actions will have. You could say that it's because of stupidity and the government shouldn't take care of every last idiot in the world, but at that point it's about opinions, so nothing to be argued there.

I repeat that: DRUG USERS DO NOT GET TREATMENT

[QUOTE=Lankist;16673365]Entirely the mentality that this current plan has. If you are a smoker, drinker, drug user or overly obese individual you go to the back of the line or don't get treated at all. Furthermore it will be paid for by raising taxes on smoking, drinking, and "bad foods."[/QUOTE] Well, people are still smoking, drinking, and buying "bad foods" here in the UK.

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;16655192]Isn't the NHS the third largest employer in the world? Right after the Chinese army and some Indian rail company. Talk about bureaucracy.[/QUOTE] And that... Means something?

[QUOTE=acds;16673446]Sure, as long as the person in question knows the consequence of his own actions. The problem is that most don't, and have no idea of the repercussions that their actions will have. You could say that it's because of stupidity and the government shouldn't take care of every last idiot in the world, but at that point it's about opinions, so nothing to be argued there.[/QUOTE] Ignorance is no excuse to invalidate rights.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16673422]You referenced the United Nations Universal Declaration of Rights. The one that supposedly applies universally. They call them rights but they treat them like suggestions.[/QUOTE] Ahh, I see. Well, I agree with you on that one.

[QUOTE=BaconDioxide;16673461]Well, people are still smoking, drinking, and buying "bad foods" here in the UK.[/QUOTE] And do they get fair treatment in the NHS or do they get told to stop smoking or no treatment? See, that's the social engineering part. You CAN smoke, but you CAN'T use the program you're paying for if you do! Maybe you should stop smoking because we're fucking you over for living your life on your own accord!

[QUOTE=snuwoods;16673197]Why is it a right? You could be a complete slob, and eat like a hog. Should someone have to take care of you now that you're in cardiac arrest? I don't think so.[/QUOTE] Yeah, fuck humans and that whole living thing. How dare they... Be free.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;16673488]Yeah, fuck humans and that whole living thing. How dare they... Be free.[/QUOTE] But this healthcare requires labor and skill from someone else who doesn't owe you treatment just because you're fucked up.

[QUOTE=Trotsky;16673488]Yeah, fuck humans and that whole living thing. How dare they... Be free.[/QUOTE] Government mandated health isn't freedom.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16673482]And do they get fair treatment in the NHS or do they get told to stop smoking or no treatment?[/QUOTE] Doctors in the NHS are payed more if they get someone to quit smoking for extended periods and other medical help. They don't just tell you "Stop", they try to help you.

Furthermore what about drug rights? This destroys them entirely.

What are drug rights?

[QUOTE=Trotsky;16673518]Doctors in the NHS are payed more if they get someone to quit smoking for extended periods and other medical help. They don't just tell you "Stop", they try to help you.[/QUOTE] And since when the fuck is it the government's job to tell you how to live? THAT is some fucked up shit. Tell people how to live by government mandated standards and get a raise! The question remains, DO THEY get treatment?

[QUOTE=BaconDioxide;16673364]I do think so. What kind of mentality is that? "Oh, they were fat, they had it coming"[/QUOTE] Says bacon dioxide, do you make sure your arteries are atherosclerotic? Seriously though, it seems that people are giving up personal responsibility these days over personal convenience. A major oversight. Following rote discipline through religion, etc. is beneficial. People easily dismiss religion now-a-days, but that's expected. Even without religion - keeping your health in check, for instance, is massively ignored. And that evidenced through our rising obesity rates. Self-responsibility is going through the drain and no one cares. A pretty bleak future.

[QUOTE=toxicpiano;16673528]What are drug rights?[/QUOTE] Doing to yourself anything you want so long as it is not in violation of someone else's right to do the same.

[QUOTE=Lankist;16673531]And since when the fuck is it the government's job to tell you how to live? THAT is some fucked up shit. Tell people how to live by government mandated standards and get a raise![/QUOTE] Just because it's from the government it doesn't have to be bad. If it's a good thing it doesn't matter from who or what it comes from.