[QUOTE=Reds;50790682]It has a black woman as the lead, it's clearly trash that exists only to pander. Don't even bother waiting to see a second of the movie, based on this information we can safely conclude that it's going to be garbage.[/QUOTE]
Beat me to it.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50791057]It depends. Situational.
Context is all. Like, its obvious that introducing a black 15 year old girl MIT student who's better than Tony Stark at literally everything and will be replacing him as Iron Man (yeah a girl as Iron Man i dont know why) is pandering. All female Ghostbusters team being advertised based on the fact that its an all female team and if you think it looks bad you're a misogynist pig? Thats pretty clear. Etc.
Luke Cage show or Black Panther movie? Or a movie where the hero or one of the hroes happens to be a black dude and its not made a big deal of? Nobody ever really complains because why would you, thats perfectly fine.[/QUOTE]
ghostbusters 2016 was actually pretty light on the all-female gimmick until controversy began to surround it and they amped it up
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50791301]ghostbusters 2016 was actually pretty light on the all-female gimmick until controversy began to surround it and they amped it up[/QUOTE]
Not really. Check out some of Amy Pascals leaked emails.
Well... shit. It's unfortunate that some Hollywood execs think "movies with female leads do well, just look at TFA". Lost all interest in it.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50790456]People get mad about such stupid shit these days that it's honestly difficult to tell satire from reality.
For all the complaining the alt-right does about SJWs taking offense to everything, they sure are sensitive.[/QUOTE]
You know, just this once, I'll take the bait - because that's what this reply is, bait.
If you're in such denial that you can't see the blatant pandering-cashgrab right in front of your eyes, while stating that everyone else who notices it is just "complaining", then that's entirely on you.
But even if you can't notice that, then you should, by now, be well aware that Hollywood just can't write female characters - even though it's not exactly Hollywood's fault. You ever heard of the Galbrush paradox?
[quote]A male can be a lecherous drunk. A woman can't or it's sexist. Sexualizing women and what all. A male can be a mentally disturbed soldier who's mind is unraveling as he walks through the hell of the modern battlefield. A woman can't or you're victimizing women and saying they're all crazy.
Consider Guybrush Threepwood, star of the Monkey Island series. He's weak, socially awkward, cowardly, kind of a nerd and generally the last person you'd think of to even cabin boy on a pirate ship, let alone captain one. He is abused, verbally and physically, mistreated, shunned, hated and generally made to feel unwanted.
Now let's say Guybrush was a girl. We'll call her Galbrush. Galbrush is weak, socially awkward, cowardly, kind of a nerd and generally the last person you'd think of to even cabin boy on a pirate ship, let alone captain one. She is abused, verbally and physically, mistreated, shunned, hated and generally made to feel unwanted.
Now, you might notice that I've given the exact same description to both of these characters. But here's where things deviate. While no one cares if Guybrush takes a pounding for being, for lack of a better term, a less than ideal pirate, Galbrush will be presumed to be discriminated against because of her gender. In fact, every hardship she will endure, though exactly the same as the hardships Guybrush endured, will be considered misogyny, rather than someone being ill suited to their desired calling.
And that ending. She goes through ALL that trouble to help, let's call him Eli Marley, escape the evil clutches of the ghost piratess Le Chuck, it turns out he didn't even need her help and she even screwed up his plan to thwart Le Chuck. Why, it'd be a slap in the face to every woman who's ever picked up a controller. Not only is the protagonist inept, but apparently women make lousy villains too!
And that's why Guybrush exists and Galbrush doesn't. Men can be comically inept halfwits. Women can't. Men can be flawed, tragic human beings. Women can't. And why? Because every single female character reflects all women everywhere.[/quote]
This is precisely why I dislike this trend and everyone who replies by default "har har yer just whinin'" without any further analysis of what they're saying. For some reason every fictional depiction of a woman has to be a reflection of every woman that exists, but be the positives of every woman. It ultimately makes women look weaker in comparison.
It's one of the reasons why a female James Bond would never be portrayed 1:1 in Hollywood, without harsh criticism: "wait, she sleeps with all those men to get more info? That's so SEXIST!"
And it's also why Rey from SW:TFA is a Mary Sue. [sp]For reasons unexplained she has expert level fighting skills, ace piloting skills, and advance force skills. She has advanced engineering skills that are likely not learned from being a scavenger, such as what would stress a hyperdrive. Add to this that every established character, Han; Chewy; and Leia, take a quick liking to her. Han even offers her a job on the Falcon she's so awesome.[/sp]
She is the type of overpowered character a fan would write into Star Wars to be a proxy for themselves. It's a symptom of the lazy writing that TFA displays quite often.
Same thing will happen with this movie, and will be torn apart by critics for the reasons stated above.
But by all means, explain to us how we're all whiners who are complaining over nothing, when the premise and spirit of the original movie (certainly not a blockbuster in my eyes, but not important enough to reach "cult classic" status) is going to be ripped apart, to inject affirmative action and pandering.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50791322]Not really. Check out some of Amy Pascals leaked emails.[/QUOTE]
i meant publicity wise
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50791371]i meant publicity wise[/QUOTE]
Still, they essentially cultivated it and were planning on it.
The movies main villain, from all accounts, lines up too well with the image they painted of detractors.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50791388]Still, they essentially cultivated it and were planning on it.
The movies main villain, from all accounts, lines up too well with the image they painted of detractors.[/QUOTE]
idk, from what i hear, the end battle seems more like dumb, lowbrow humor than the political statement some people seem to interpret it as
I am very hesitant. I'll admit that I'm not used to action films where the protagonist is female.
I'm more bothered by the media trying to make a big deal out of it.
Until the creators themselves blatantly push the fact as a marketing gimmick I can't see why people would get bent out of shape over this.
[QUOTE=spekter;50791598]I'm more bothered by the media trying to make a big deal out of it.
Until the creators themselves blatantly push the fact as a marketing gimmick I can't see why people would get bent out of shape over this.[/QUOTE]
People are probably still miffed about all the Ghostbusters bullshit which is why everyones a little wary about this.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50791609]People are probably still miffed about all the Ghostbusters bullshit which is why everyones a little wary about this.[/QUOTE]
I doubt anyone else would be so bold as to use that level of underhanded marketing ever again especially not Disney. I mean the hate Ghostbusters got was completely justified from start to finish.
One immediate worry is the modern-day twist with this new film. The time the original was set in was crucial to the atmosphere and making the visuals so iconic.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;50791350]Well... shit. It's unfortunate that some Hollywood execs think "movies with female leads do well, just look at TFA". Lost all interest in it.
You know, just this once, I'll take the bait - because that's what this reply is, bait.
If you're in such denial that you can't see the blatant pandering-cashgrab right in front of your eyes, while stating that everyone else who notices it is just "complaining", then that's entirely on you.
But even if you can't notice that, then you should, by now, be well aware that Hollywood just can't write female characters - even though it's not exactly Hollywood's fault. You ever heard of the Galbrush paradox?
This is precisely why I dislike this trend and everyone who replies by default "har har yer just whinin'" without any further analysis of what they're saying. For some reason every fictional depiction of a woman has to be a reflection of every woman that exists, but be the positives of every woman. It ultimately makes women look weaker in comparison.
It's one of the reasons why a female James Bond would never be portrayed 1:1 in Hollywood, without harsh criticism: "wait, she sleeps with all those men to get more info? That's so SEXIST!"
And it's also why Rey from SW:TFA is a Mary Sue. [sp]For reasons unexplained she has expert level fighting skills, ace piloting skills, and advance force skills. She has advanced engineering skills that are likely not learned from being a scavenger, such as what would stress a hyperdrive. Add to this that every established character, Han; Chewy; and Leia, take a quick liking to her. Han even offers her a job on the Falcon she's so awesome.[/sp]
She is the type of overpowered character a fan would write into Star Wars to be a proxy for themselves. It's a symptom of the lazy writing that TFA displays quite often.
Same thing will happen with this movie, and will be torn apart by critics for the reasons stated above.
But by all means, explain to us how we're all whiners who are complaining over nothing, when the premise and spirit of the original movie (certainly not a blockbuster in my eyes, but not important enough to reach "cult classic" status) is going to be ripped apart, to inject affirmative action and pandering.[/QUOTE]
It's not that I "can't see" the "blatant pandering cash grab" in any movie that has a female lead. I just don't agree with literally any of the leaps you are making in drawing your conclusion.
Who cares? The Rocketeer never really had any sort of significant cultural impact in film, this is just Disney trying to cash in on the current social justice trend by taking one of their old movies and injecting some melanin into it.
[QUOTE=spekter;50791634]I doubt anyone else would be so bold as to use that level of underhanded marketing ever again especially not Disney. I mean the hate Ghostbusters got was completely justified from start to finish.
One immediate worry is the modern-day twist with this new film. The time the original was set in was crucial to the atmosphere and making the visuals so iconic.[/QUOTE]
Oh no, dont get me wrong, if theres a silver lining to that movie its that Sony failed so spectacularly that something of that magnitude will ever be tried again, and in all likelihood it might spread to other mediums so everyone else gets it through their thick heads that this shit doesnt sell.
Sony lost nearly 170 mil on that trainwreck if im not mistaken.
[editline]28th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50791738]It's not that I "can't see" the "blatant pandering cash grab" in any movie that has a female lead. I just don't agree with literally any of the leaps you are making in drawing your conclusion.[/QUOTE]
No offense BDA but you dont ever seem to listen when somebody tries to explain this kind of thing to you.
Remember the Riri Williams thread?
Not that i necessarily agree that this movie will turn out like that but still.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50791609]People are probably still miffed about all the Ghostbusters bullshit which is why everyones a little wary about this.[/QUOTE]
You're giving Ghostbusters too much credit. There's always been people with nothing better to do looking for ways to vindicate their notion that PC culture is taking over. Because god forbid filmmakers have the freedom to choose their own actors
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;50791778]Who cares? The Rocketeer never really had any sort of significant cultural impact in film, this is just Disney trying to cash in on the current social justice trend by taking one of their old movies and injecting some melanin into it.[/QUOTE]
^like this guy
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50791818]You're giving Ghostbusters too much credit. There's always been people with nothing better to do looking for ways to vindicate their notion that PC culture is taking over
^like this guy[/QUOTE]
Yeah but theres at least some precedent for people who dont think that to still be worried is all.
Wont happen, Disney's pretty good at not fucking a beehive, they fired Trank after Fant4stic and i'd be shocked if anyone tried to go down the Ghostbusters route after Sony lost so much fucking money on it.
Disneys probably happy about Ghostbusters failing, gives them more leverage when it comes to Spider-Man. :v:
Ok what the fuck
I've been waiting for Rocketeer to reappear because it's an amazing classic but they're literally just doing what they did to Iron Man
[editline]28th July 2016[/editline]
its not enough that people think Rocketeer and Iron Man are similar, even sometimes mistaking the two but now they both gotta be replaced by teenage black girls
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50791818]
^like this guy[/QUOTE]
Jeez guy, you're really putting a lot of words in my mouth when all I was saying is Disney's trying to cash in on a very vocal, visible trend in social media.
You know, something Marvel's been milking for years?
I'm almost happy disney infinity was cancelled since I requested Rocketeer a million times and this coming means they'd just use this bleh version like they did with Tim Burton's Alice
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;50791885]Jeez guy, you're really putting a lot of words in my mouth when all I was saying is Disney's trying to cash in on a very vocal, visible trend in social media.
You know, something Marvel's been milking for years?[/QUOTE]
Newsflash: you can cast a minority in a movie without it being pandering
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50791916]Newsflash: you can cast a minority in a movie without it being pandering[/QUOTE]
this isn't just "casting a minority in a movie"
this is genderswapping and raceswapping the main character of a classic franchise
[editline]28th July 2016[/editline]
This isn't a spiritual successor to Rocketeer, it [i]is[/i] Rocketeer
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50791856]Ok what the fuck
I've been waiting for Rocketeer to reappear because it's an amazing classic but they're literally just doing what they did to Iron Man
[editline]28th July 2016[/editline]
its not enough that people think Rocketeer and Iron Man are similar, even sometimes mistaking the two but now they both gotta be replaced by teenage black girls[/QUOTE]
So what do you like about the Rocketeer? The 30s setting? The dieselpunk aesthetic?
Unless you've said "Man, know what I really enjoy about the Rocketeer? The fact that there's a white guy in the suit", then I don't see how this would hinder your enjoyment of it
[editline]28th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50791924]this isn't just "casting a minority in a movie"
this is genderswapping and raceswapping the main character of a classic franchise[/QUOTE]
The original dude still exists in this universe though?
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50791928]So what do you like about the Rocketeer? The 30s setting? The dieselpunk aesthetic?
Unless you've said "Man, know what I really enjoy about the Rocketeer? The fact that there's a white guy in the suit", then I don't see how this would hinder your enjoyment of it[/QUOTE]
Yes, Cliff Secord being the main character is kind of a big deal? Are you seriously saying this? What's your enjoyment of Indiana Jones, why couldn't he be an Asian transsexual?
[editline]28th July 2016[/editline]
Also the title of the thread says sequel but the tweets from Disney and the title of the article says Reboot so
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50791806]Oh no, dont get me wrong, if theres a silver lining to that movie its that Sony failed so spectacularly that something of that magnitude will ever be tried again, and in all likelihood it might spread to other mediums so everyone else gets it through their thick heads that this shit doesnt sell.
Sony lost nearly 170 mil on that trainwreck if im not mistaken.
[editline]28th July 2016[/editline]
No offense BDA but you dont ever seem to listen when somebody tries to explain this kind of thing to you.
Remember the Riri Williams thread?
Not that i necessarily agree that this movie will turn out like that but still.[/QUOTE]
I just don't agree with your concerns??? You can be as frustrated as you want about that, it isn't suddenly ly going to make me mad about movies with female leads. I hear your arguments, I understand your position, I just do not agree.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50791951]Yes, Cliff Secord being the main character is kind of a big deal? Are you seriously saying this? What's your enjoyment of Indiana Jones, why couldn't he be an Asian transsexual?[/QUOTE]
Let's try again: what do you like about Cliff? His determination? His craftiness? You know, things that aren't exclusive to white people?
Please, name me one thing a black female Rocketeer can't do that a white male one can
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50791916]Newsflash: you can cast a minority in a movie without it being pandering[/QUOTE]
After Marvel replaced Tony Stark with a hyper-genius black teenager with a huge afro, I don't know anymore dude.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;50791972]After Marvel replaced Tony Stark with a hyper-genius black teenager with a huge afro, I don't know anymore dude.[/QUOTE]
Good thing I'm here to tell you, then
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50791969]Let's try again: what do you like about Cliff? His determination? His craftiness? You know, things that aren't exclusive to white people?
Please, name me one thing a black female Rocketeer can't do that a white male one can[/QUOTE]
Be cliff secord, the main character of the franchise since 1982. Would you not care if black panther was made a white teen? If spawn were made a white guy (before the origin, I'm aware he comes back to earth white briefly)
[editline]28th July 2016[/editline]
Hell Id be annoyed if they changed his hair color
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50791989]Good thing I'm here to tell you, then[/QUOTE]
Tell me what? That I'm a vindictive idiot for rolling my eyes at a very sleazy trend in media?
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50791818]You're giving Ghostbusters too much credit. There's always been people with nothing better to do looking for ways to vindicate their notion that PC culture is taking over. Because god forbid filmmakers have the freedom to choose their own actors
[/QUOTE]
You probably live a sheltered life from these people, it's a bigger impact and a larger group of people doing this then you think. It's not a large swarm of people, but people who've moved into positions of influence that require communication and child development.
I'll reiterate, this is a check off list at disney, they've already have years of experience with the sausage factor such as [sp]cory in the house :P[/sp]
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