[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50792913]Plus all we have to go on is Shane Black's venting which isn't worth much at all. I remember when that interview was new. There's no proof that they shut down his genderswap "because toys"[/QUOTE]
Yeah! Let's not trust the director and writer of the film, what does [I]he[/I] know?
Man, the mental gymnastics you'll go through to support your agenda are hilarious
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50792928]Also you called it pandering first with your "look they're not pandering because they stopped a genderswap at one point"[/QUOTE]
It was not a genderswap, how many times do I have to say this
I can't tell if you're being purposefully stubborn or if you're just that oblivious
[quote]’ In the earlier draft, the woman was essentially Killian – and they didn’t want a female Killian, they wanted a male Killian.[/quote]
He also went on to say that after they decided not to switch Killian, he wanted it to be YET ANOTHER TWIST
Not only was Mandarin a front for Killian, but Killian was a front for another random woman!
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50792928]Link? That's interesting
[/QUOTE]
Google the Marve Creative Committee, there was a big hubub about it last year because it got broke down. They're responsible for Iron Man 2's existence, certain issues with Iron Man 3 and Avengers 2, and likely a lot of the same-feeling that the films started to have in Phase 2.
Doctor Strange is the first film put into development (proper development, not just announcement) after the breakup, with Feige being the sole producer, and it looks more unique and interesting than most of the Phase 2 films, so its a good sign.
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50792962]He also went on to say that after they decided not to switch Killian, he wanted it to be YET ANOTHER TWIST
Not only was Mandarin a front for Killian, but Killian was a front for another random woman![/QUOTE]
Misreading things again
The twist with Killian was going to happen to the female character because that female character was going to fit his role. Please, apply yourself dude
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50792953]Yeah! Let's not trust the director and writer of the film, what does [I]he[/I] know?[/QUOTE]
a single film, a #3 of a series inside a larger franchise he's not working on anymore, and not even the first one to feel burned by marvel then rattle on about it, and years later too
I don't have an agenda lol? Do you think I'm asking for characters to all be white males? Because you're the one arguing that they "gave in to something distasteful" by having clarified the fact they didn't retcon and white wash a major villain built up in the first film
"They didn't want a female Killian, they wanted a male Killian"
wow, making a character their original ethnicity and gender, what shitlords
[editline]28th July 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50792964]Google the Marve Creative Committee, there was a big hubub about it last year because it got broke down. They're responsible for Iron Man 2's existence, certain issues with Iron Man 3 and Avengers 2, and likely a lot of the same-feeling that the films started to have in Phase 2.
Doctor Strange is the first film put into development (proper development, not just announcement) after the breakup, with Feige being the sole producer, and it looks more unique and interesting than most of the Phase 2 films, so its a good sign.[/QUOTE]
I hope it's good
I don't think this is a good idea given Disney track record lately.
Here's the quotes
[quote]Marvel saw so many negative things they made a whole other movie just to apologize called Hail to the King. In which they said, “No, no, the Mandarin is still alive. That wasn’t him. There’s a real Mandarin.” The only reason they made that was an apology to fans who were so angry[/quote]
[quote]In the earlier draft, the woman was essentially Killian – and they didn’t want a female Killian, they wanted a male Killian. I liked the idea, like Remington Steele, you think it’s the man but at the end, the woman has been running the whole show. They just said, “no way.”[/quote]
Now, I think this makes it pretty clear that A. There wasn't a grand plan to include the "real" Mandarin from the start, despite this story you conjured up in your head. The quote you used ("There's a real Mandarin") was Shane Black pointing out what Marvel's one-shot was essentially saying, as an afterthought when faced with fan backlash.
And B. Killian wasn't going to be genderswapped. Shane says a female villain was going to fill Killian's role, which you interpreted as Killian being a woman. I imagine you think that because he said "They wanted a male Killian", but if you're really going to interpret that as confirmation of a genderswap, and not an easy and accessible way to refer to the character in that sentence, then I really don't know what to say. But here's a question: if I make a 60s noir movie and mention that a character is "essentially Darth Vader - but the studio didn't want a female Vader, they wanted a male Vader", would you reach the obvious conclusion that I'm talking about a character that fits the same ominous, powerful archetype, or would you also apply your ridiculous logic to this and think I'm [I]literally[/I] putting Darth Vader in my noir film?
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50791413]idk, from what i hear, the end battle seems more like dumb, lowbrow humor than the political statement some people seem to interpret it as[/QUOTE]
it's literally a shot in the balls. can't get more political than that.
[QUOTE=Pops;50793117]it's literally a shot in the balls. can't get more political than that.[/QUOTE]
"hit in the balls" humor is political now? i guess adam sandler is hollywood's staunchest feminist, then
[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;50793152]"hit in the balls" humor is political now? i guess adam sandler is hollywood's staunchest feminist, then[/QUOTE]
normally, no. when your movie is an all-female lineup and they constantly go "ha, men" throughout the movie, then yes.
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;50792198]The problem with Rey is that there wasn't any buildup or characterization.
She was just suddenly really powerful with the Force. Luke at least had a small amount of proper training and spiritual guidance from Ben.
Rey was just 100% fucking perfect and dandy from the start. She fixes the hyperdrive, for gods sake. The HYPERDRIVE. You know, the one thing that even Han and Chewie, experienced pilots, couldn't fix.
Rey was written incredibly poorly and you can't deny that. Give me one example of character development for Rey in the movie. You can't, because there is none.[/QUOTE]
You open the movie with her with a staff she uses to fight, and they show she has plenty of street smarts from her very difficult life. She's a good mechanic from it as well, because while Han and Chewie may have lived their lives flying ships she lived hers taking them apart.
I'm not saying she was a perfect character but most of the complaints are ignorant of large swathes of the movie.
Also her discovering her force sensitivity was half the plot.
[editline]28th July 2016[/editline]
Who complained when Leia was randomly a badass sharpshooter who was better at shooting and making decisions than Han in A New Hope?
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;50793226]You open the movie with her with a staff she uses to fight, and they show she has plenty of street smarts from her very difficult life. She's a good mechanic from it as well, because while Han and Chewie may have lived their lives flying ships she lived hers taking them apart.
I'm not saying she was a perfect character but most of the complaints are ignorant of large swathes of the movie.
Also her discovering her force sensitivity was half the plot.
[editline]28th July 2016[/editline]
Who complained when Leia was randomly a badass sharpshooter who was better at shooting and making decisions than Han in A New Hope?[/QUOTE]
She's like 20, there's no reason she should be able to bypass a massive flaw with a ship that experienced pilots have been trying to fix for over 30 years.
And she took apart dead ships for scrap. She has no pilot experience at all. There's no reason she should know how a ship actually functions, especially the Millenium Falcon.
And Han and Chewie didn't just pilot the ship, they maintained it for years and years. There are tons of scenes in Empire Strikes Back showing them doing tons of mechanical work on the Falcon. They knew that ship better than anyone else, especially more than some random scrapper from a barren desert planet.
What street smarts did she have? All she really showed was some decent knowledge of the surrounding area and people. She wasn't shown to be cunning or tricky. When she got stiffed on rations, she just sat there and took it. She had good judgement, but street smarts certainly weren't present in any of her scenes.
And her Force sensitivity didn't come into play until the final act of the movie, where she can suddenly do mind tricks and match Kylo Ren in combat. Being good with a staff doesn't mean you're good with a lightsaber. Staffs and swords have two very different fighting styles.
Compare all of this to Luke, who had a good deal of piloting experience, especially in tight enclosed areas like Beggar's Canyon, and had training and guidance on the Force which allowed him to use it once at the end of the movie.
And Leia obviously wasn't a "badass sharpshooter". She had two scenes where she fired a blaster. It's called aiming. Han was basically a gunslinger. Her aiming was better than Han because Han was on the move half the time when he had blaster. She made better decisions than him because she was a politician. Making tough decisions is literally her job. That's hardly "random" at all.
[QUOTE=LTJGPliskin;50793443]She's like 20, there's no reason she should be able to bypass a massive flaw with a ship that experienced pilots have been trying to fix for over 30 years.
And she took apart dead ships for scrap. She has no pilot experience at all. There's no reason she should know how a ship actually functions, especially the Millenium Falcon.[/QUOTE]
Of course she should know how it functions, how the hell is she going to sell the parts without knowing what they do? She'd be getting ripped off left and right
I don't mind Rey but just because you know values of junkyard scrap doesn't mean you know how to drive or fix a car, let alone a super plane
Also she [i]does[/i] get ripped off left and right...
[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50793519]I don't mind Rey but just because you know values of junkyard scrap doesn't mean you know how to drive or fix a car, let alone a super plane
Also she [i]does[/i] get ripped off left and right...[/QUOTE]
Ever meet a mechanic that doesn't know how to drive?
Doesn't she fix it on pure luck? I remember her tearing something off and saying she bypassed it smiling like a weirdo, it was played for humor
[editline]29th July 2016[/editline]
She's not a mechanic though. She sifts through waste from the battle of Jakku to trade scrap for food.
[editline]29th July 2016[/editline]
Her general and natural skill is possibly influenced by the force tbh, but when she fixes the falcon it was an accident iirc.
Anakin and Luke had pilot skills since childhood because force and Luke makes an impossible shot without a lock on using it
[editline]29th July 2016[/editline]
Course by that point of the movie her force abilities are still secret
The worst part about that is that Rey actually knows what she's doing when she fixes the hyperdrive. She makes it seem like some ridiculously easy task, making Han look like an idiot.
Like half the movie feels like it was written by some assholes who are trying to write like Joss Whedon to capitalize on Marvel's success.
Oh wait, that's exactly what they're doing.
[editline]29th July 2016[/editline]
I mean with Luke he at least had done quite a bit of flying before the movie.
It's at least open to interpretation whether or not that was because of the Force or not.
And then with Anakin, well, that's just bad writing.
[QUOTE=Sims_doc;50793052]I don't think this is a good idea given Disney track record lately.[/QUOTE]
It's pandering to the lowest common denominator, that's why it won't work as intended. I don't know what the fuck they're thinking. Maybe they're completely oblivious to the recent social media circus that was Ghostbusters.
Considering their track with TFA, this black Rocketeer (Rocketeeress?) will probably be a Mary Sue, just like Rey.
[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;50794179][b]It's pandering to the lowest common denominator, that's why it won't work as intended.[/b] I don't know what the fuck they're thinking. Maybe they're completely oblivious to the recent social media circus that was Ghostbusters.
Considering their track with TFA, this black Rocketeer (Rocketeeress?) will probably be a Mary Sue, just like Rey.[/QUOTE]
Is it though?
When i think "targeting lowest common denominator" i think Bayformers or TMNT.
Its more like pandering to an extremely small niche crowd that only exists in essentially one country, and shitting on everyone else.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50794207]Is it though?
When i think "targeting lowest common denominator" i think Bayformers or TMNT.
Its more like pandering to an extremely small niche crowd that only exists in essentially one country, and shitting on everyone else.[/QUOTE]
True, it's more like the common denominator are the Gen X'ers who grew in the '90s and remember watching the movie as kids, but now are manchildren in their late 20s-early 30s, have steady jobs, and still blow money on toys and watches superhero movies - the "I'm nerdy and quirky because it's hip" audience.
Wrong generation, the Gen Xers are all in their 40s at the least. Everyone born post nam is either Gen Y, Z, or millennial.
Well, I am looking forward to it.
I don't give a single shit what race, gender, age, size, or goddamn star sign the new main is. Just as long we get some more sweet, sweet alt-history jetpack Nazi propaganda cartoons.
[video=youtube;4sV_j_BpWHg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sV_j_BpWHg[/video]
[I][B]Dang.[/B][/I] :pudge:
If I was a fan of this show and I heard that they were replacing the main character with a new one I didn't care about I would be pretty mad. I'd assume that fans would want the original MC to be the main character.
[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;50795644]If I was a fan of this show and I heard that they were replacing the main character with a new one I didn't care about I would be pretty mad. I'd assume that fans would want the original MC to be the main character.[/QUOTE]
This. The Rocketeer has always been Cliff Secord, he's not a superhero or identity that people can take.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;50792647]croc-fusion[/QUOTE]
Oh, my bad.
I'm used to the Arkham games where he's more crocodile than an angry black dude with eczema.
Seems like it varies on artist how literal they go for his croc skin.
[QUOTE=Menien Goneld;50800246]Oh, my bad.
I'm used to the Arkham games where he's more crocodile than an angry black dude with eczema.
Seems like it varies on artist how literal they go for his croc skin.[/QUOTE]
His appearance varies dramatically between artists. His race really isn't important to the character design. You could easily have him played by anybody of big enough stature, if not just going full CG.
[t]http://cdn1-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/suicide-squad/croc-news-story.jpg[/t]
[t]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/batman/images/f/f2/KillerCrocB-AA.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110610105405[/t]
[t]http://static4.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_medium/11/113509/4689982-7470701949-SoBat.jpg[/t]
[t]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gd0SPlXWYiE/TMI9ONr57bI/AAAAAAAAAq8/dcTER602OQg/s1600/vendetta26.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad108/DC-Universe/Killer%20Croc/Pan01.jpg[/t]
[t]http://basementrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/batman-gotham-knight-killer-croc-dc-animation.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50800885]His appearance varies dramatically between artists. His race really isn't important to the character design. You could easily have him played by anybody of big enough stature, if not just going full CG.[/QUOTE]
It depends on which Croc design you go for. Some are very clearly "large black dude with skin condition" and in my honest opinion thats how he should be, otherwise he starts to end up like a lame rip off of The Lizard.
Making him a dude who's got some fucked up mutation that gives him reptilian looking skin and above average strength and speed and he just went full on croc mode because of it is more interesting my book than "im a big scaley with a croc face i must eat you because i am a crocodilian".
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