• France halts Russia warship delivery
    80 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Melnek;45883947]Yeah, you are, by tackling complex issues with these overspoken obvious slogans like "death is wrong and bad" and "innocents dying is wrong". Well no shit it's bad and wrong, but you're not going to stop it by throwing around pretty words, but rather by analyzing the situation and not falling for retarded black and white rhetoricals.[/QUOTE] Now it's a complex issue? You called it petty earlier. Also, I did none of what you're saying, so maybe you should, you know "stop blowing shit out of proportion".
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45883131]There's a simple solution: facilitate the peaceful transfer of all disputed territories to Russia. Seriously; we've dissolved whole countries in the past as an alternative to war, it just requires acceptance that your side won't get a 100% of what it wants.[/QUOTE]How long are you going to bang on about Eastern Europe rightfully belonging to Russia? It's absolutely deluded. There's plenty of ways to counterbalance the US without forcing Eastern European countries to give up their sovereignty once again.
[QUOTE=Miskav;45883910]Then there's nothing to do about these ships. Russia isn't going to be the only one getting their way.[/QUOTE] How would France defend that decision though? "Uhm, Russia took Crimea, so we're stealing some money from Russia as, uhm, compensation for that" Doesn't really make sense.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45884323]I have a better idea, return the disputed territories to Ukraine, their rightful owners. Anything else is appeasement and is only going to embolden Russia even more.[/QUOTE] I suppose you think removing ballistic missiles from Turkey to diffuse the Cuban missile Crisis was appeasement too.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45884397]I suppose you think removing ballistic missiles from Turkey to diffuse the Cuban missile Crisis was appeasement too.[/QUOTE] How relevant to this situation, do you have any more other post-world war comparisons or do you mind keeping your argument to the actual issue and not something that happened in a different century, which you cannot stop doing?
[QUOTE=Melnek;45882754]That still doesn't negate the fact that this only hurts France. And you have no idea how economy and trade works if you think none of the money that will be made in this deal will ever see productive use. These ships don't cost 20 bucks.[/QUOTE] Contracts can be stalled for simply the reason of "issues regarding political matters" it is a totally legal ground to hold. [QUOTE=Melnek;45882754] All of this is beside the main point anyway. Both France and Russia have already signed the trade agreement. Russia ALREADY payed for one of the ships. It's illegal to back out of this agreement without paying a shitload of compensation. [/QUOTE] And France is within their rights to pull the contract or sit on it until things simmer down. Russia as of the moment is illegally occupying Crimea, and is attempting to occupy Ukraine's industrial capacity. That's a big fucking problem. [QUOTE=Melnek;45882754] Also "hostile nation", lol. You guys are literally treating Russia as if it's some Nazi Germany and North Korea hybrid state, just because they illegally annexed some tiny piece of land in the midst of a civil war that technically always belonged to them and happened to be given away on a drunken whim a couple of decades ago.[/QUOTE] "tiny bit of land" ohhhh, you mean that bit of land belonging to Ukraine? Which is a majority of it's industrial districts? Which Russia is still trying to take over the rest of Eastern Ukraine in order to ensure they have Ukraine's industrial capabilities at their disposal?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;45884420]So ukraine is to suffer so other countries don't get their hands dirty? Or did you forget what happened the last time the international community let a country essentially annex another country with 0 resistance?[/QUOTE] This is how negotiation works, one side gets something and in exchange the other gets something in return. To expect total, unconditional, capitulation from any side is dangerous and unrealistic. Ukraine's revolution was based around a fundamentally anti-Russian proposition and only served to further shrink Russia's influence. If Ukraine wants to move closer to the west and shatter Russia's prized Eurasian Economic Union they can do that, but there will be costs. And in regards to the German conquest of Czechoslovakia: there was simply no way the Britain and France were going to go to war over the Sudetenland, or even the whole of Czechoslovakia. If another large scale European war had broken out over what at the time seemed like a minor border dispute the history books might have had a very different take on the events of the period. Even if the allies had beaten Hitler, the war still would have claimed many lives and history would have looked back on Britain and France as irresponsible jingoistic nations who had been unable to learn the lessons of the first war.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45884660]This is how negotiation works, one side gets something and in exchange the other gets something in return. To expect total, unconditional, capitulation from any side is dangerous and unrealistic. Ukraine's revolution was based around a fundamentally anti-Russian proposition and only served to further shrink Russia's influence. If Ukraine wants to move closer to the west and shatter Russia's prized Eurasian Economic Union they can do that, but there will be costs.[/QUOTE] So....Because Ukraine wants to be close to the West Russia is entitled to steal their shit? Are you fucking kidding me? Are you seriously trying to say that justifies Russia's land grabbing bullshit? You're delusional.
[QUOTE=Gwoodman;45884044]Now it's a complex issue? You called it petty earlier. Also, I did none of what you're saying, so maybe you should, you know "stop blowing shit out of proportion".[/QUOTE] Lol, you do realize a petty situation can still be complicated, right? In fact most modern disputes are born out of pettiness but are still complicated nonetheless. The two definitions aren't mutually exclusive.
If the Russian government paid for the ships - then they should be getting them, period. How would you feel if you went to McDonalds, ordered a nice burg and paid for it, but the employee refused to let you have your burg because there's something about you they dislike? It's just crass.
[QUOTE=Battledrobe;45885344]If the Russian government paid for the ships - then they should be getting them, period. How would you feel if you went to McDonalds, ordered a nice burg and paid for it, but the employee refused to let you have your burg because there's something about you they dislike? It's just crass.[/QUOTE] Well yeah except that I don't think they'd be inclined to give you your burger if you annexed Crimea while they were preparing it.
With all the Dumb ratings he's giving out, I have this feeling that Recco is really Putin.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45884397]I suppose you think removing ballistic missiles from Turkey to diffuse the Cuban missile Crisis was appeasement too.[/QUOTE] You and Chamberlain would've gotten along quite well.
[QUOTE=Battledrobe;45885344]If the Russian government paid for the ships - then they should be getting them, period. How would you feel if you went to McDonalds, ordered a nice burg and paid for it, but the employee refused to let you have your burg because there's something about you they dislike? It's just crass.[/QUOTE] This is nothing like a burger, this is like refusing to sell a rifle to the guy who takes pot shots at his neighbors cat because he hates him.
[QUOTE=426_Hemi;45882932]What the fuck man '' [URL="http://liveuamap.com/?ll=42.98979173558226;-14.807626953125016&zoom=3"]Get some perspective, lol.[/URL] '' bla bla bla le white flag frnch flag xd might be funny sometimes, now there's a risk that the ships might be used to kill Ukrainian people or even Europeans if the situation really fuck up.[/QUOTE] You say it could be used to kill Ukrainians or Europeans. The ships are intended for the Pacfic fleet. Unless Russia develops a REALLY long range helicopter they would be hard pressed. And you talk about perspective. [editline]4th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=DemonElite;45883182]how about no russia can abide by the budapest memorandum instead of being cunts, how about that?[/QUOTE] The conditions for that included neither US or Russia interfering with Ukrainian affairs. Russia claims US interfered, thereby rendering the agreement void.
I've actually been on the mistral during IMDEX. Interesting but very large ship.
[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45883131]There's a simple solution: facilitate the peaceful transfer of all disputed territories to Russia. Seriously; we've dissolved whole countries in the past as an alternative to war, it just requires acceptance that your side won't get a 100% of what it wants.[/QUOTE] Yeah let's just dissolve several sovereign nations and hand control over to russia. That worked so well before, in Palestine. Great idea.
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