[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46418128]If this was an imperial democracy/constitutional monarchy, we would see more parties, but remain a "true" democracy we generally fall into a 1 of 2 party system.[/QUOTE]
By definition we aren't really democracy, we're a republic to the letter.
If we were democratic we wouldn't have the electoral college
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;46415653]1. The Affordable Healthcare Act is over priced, insecure, and completely overstated on the effectiveness the service provides. It would have been much easier to make healthcare optional, then push a law saying that each company must offer a health care system that can cover even some of the lowest income families and the government will pick up the rest.
2. Obama's unaction/actions with ISIS, Russia, etc; lot of people are still wondering why we are getting pulled back into the middle east when it was promised we would be out of it. While at the same time we do little to nothing other than shake our finger at russia shooting down a plane full of people, invading almost half of the Ukraine, and strengthening ties with China.
3. NSA/Snowden, not really his fault as it was most likely set up pre-bush, then after 911 got massive funding. But Obama really hasn't done anything to stop it.
4. Job's, While the amount of jobs have increased, it is more or less due to the fact companies can't work their employees over 37.5hrs without paying a ridiculous amount to the Affordable Healthcare Act, so most have to work 2 jobs.
5. Middle-class taxation, everyone talks about how this is a big issue but Obama really hasn't made it clear how he plans to fix it. As more republicans come off as entrepreneurs and business men, this generally grabs the middle class for promising tax cuts.[/QUOTE]
1. The ACA could certainly be better than it is, but it isn't the healthcare industry-killing abomination it is made out to be. Even Middle Class families can benefit from it even though they don't directly use it. The mandatory enforcement of healthcare makes it so hospitals no longer [I]have[/I] to treat uninsured patients who couldn't possibly pay their bills, meaning hospitals make more money and, in theory, would charge less for their services. Hospitals actually benefit from the ACA, but it hurts insurance companies and, if I am not mistaken, individual doctors and physicians.
2. So what do you fucking propose? I am so tired of the right-winger warhawks shouting how we need to "step up to Russia" or "fight ISIS" like it would be that easy. Obama's policy is the best that can be done; open war with either of those entities would completely ruin the economy we just spent years repairing.
3. You just stated my argument. Yes, Obama hasn't done a lot to combat it, but neither have the past administrations (including Bush who, as you said, probably enlarged it if anything) and "stopping" the NSA is not a priority for anybody in a position of power, regardless of the party. It is a valuable, if intrusive, security tool.
4. Source? That sounds ripped right out of your ass. Employment has gone up and it has little to nothing to do with working multiple jobs. I'd argue that the increase in jobs was more of a natural rebounding of the economy, as opposed to anything the government has done.
5. The Republicans won't fix shit for the middle class. "Entrepreneurs and business men" don't have that in their best interests. When the Republicans talk of "tax cuts", they generally mean for the rich, as they supposedly hope that will help create more jobs since the business owners can re-invest in their economy. I would argue this is bullshit, as it is based off of the broken neoclassical model of labor that treats it like a standard resource being supplied by a collective firm, but in the end it isn't, and it also runs on the assumption that companies will automatically employ people if there is any benefit to gain from them, where I would argue that companies only employ the necessary amount of people to run their firm to minimize costs. Sure, if they are smart or rational they will hire more workers as long as the marginal benefit is still there, but that is the problem with neoclassical economics as a whole; it treats every firm like a robot that will always make the absolute best decision. They forget firms are run by people, and people are irrational beings by nature.
[QUOTE=MajorWX;46415170][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/KpbYmeH.png[/IMG]
Damnit western NC. Only my county and the Indian reserve voted Democrat.[/QUOTE]
We tried over here in Raleigh, but the Gerrymandering has turned five distinct democratic voting areas into 1 democratic area and 5 republican areas.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;46417865]Excellent job literally throwing your vote away. You might as well have not voted at all.[/QUOTE]
lol what kind of idiotic logic is that
'vote for one of the most popular parties or dont vote at all!!'
you are literally the reason there aren't more than two popular parties
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;46417264]
contrary to the stereotype, most older white voters don't vote republican because they're xenophobic, racist, or hate the gays, they mostly vote republican because their stance on the taxation of richer people. Nobody wants to see something they earned disappear or dwindle, especially when you're retired.[/QUOTE]
You also need to think of their mindset. In their day and age, optimism was unbridled, and I dare say the "American Dream" was far more attainable than today. Big business didn't have the power it does now (it was still absurdly powerful, but it kind of got nerfed by democrats after the 1800s) and that opened the doors for most American to "level up" so to speak. It was also helpful because their generation grew up poor, but moved to the middle class over time, making the middle class the largest economic class in America. Now that it is already large, moving up is even harder.
A lot of people are also uber-nostalgic for Reagan. You'd be surprised how much that counts for the vote. I'm serious, I would say Reagan is a huge reason why so many people still support the party (despite the fact that he is the reason we are in this mess). He was insanely likable, traditional, the stereotypical American, and his policies did help repair the economy in his time (but as I said, they haven't helped us now. They were great in the short run, bad in the long run). He is still the party's mascot in a way.
meanwhile in plenty of other countries the share of seats is divided between much more than 2.
[QUOTE=draugur;46418147]Yeah how dare people actually try to make the system work as it was intended to work. Instead lets just continue playing the lesser of two evils game where the difference between who is lesser happens to apparently be who is currently not in the spotlight known as the presidential office.[/QUOTE]
Voting for a third party isn't "trying to make the system work as it was intended to work". Voting for a third party is the equivalent of posting "KONY 2012" on facebook or upvoting something on reditt. It does literally nothing.
[editline]5th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Scot;46418067]Why are there only two parties in america? Please spoonfeed me.[/QUOTE]
Because the system is broken and theres no real pain-free way to fix it.
[QUOTE=.Lain;46418321]meanwhile in plenty of other countries the share of seats is divided between much more than 2.[/QUOTE]
Yeah they have proportional systems, while ours is a fptp system which boils down to 2 parties every time.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;46414269]If you're democrat you'll blame republican
If you're republican you'll blame democrat[/QUOTE]
Except they shut down the government because they didn't get their way. Like, this piece of legislature was proposed (Affordable Healthcare Act), everyone voted on it like they were supposed to, and it passed. Then when it came time for that legislation to actually take effect, the republicans managed to completely shut down the government unless it was undone by not raising the debt ceiling, and some fucking how it was a republican leader that had sole power to re-open talks or some shit. Basically they said fuck democracy
They held out for 2 weeks and got nothing. That's not democracy, that's just fucked up
[QUOTE=patq911;46418333]Yeah they have proportional systems, while ours is a fptp system which boils down to 2 parties every time.[/QUOTE]
which is part of the problem, but fptp can exist without boiling down to 2, though eventually without some kind of intervention it will get close to or to a 2 party system like the US is in at the moment
[editline]5th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheTalon;46418354]Except they shut down the government because they didn't get their way. Like, this piece of legislature was proposed, everyone voted on it like they were supposed to, and it passed. Then when it came time for that legislation to actually take effect, the republicans managed to completely shut down the government unless it was undone by not raising the debt ceiling, and some fucking how it was a republican leader that had sole power to re-open talks or some shit. Basically they said fuck democracy[/QUOTE]
roflburger's post is a great example of a counter intuitive mindset. we should be criticizing each party fairly and what he's saying isn't being fair at all. that was absolutely a problem within the republican party
[QUOTE=Last or First;46418209]If you have to say "even though it doesn't look like it, that other party is secretly just as bad as ours", you're not really doing a good job of arguing for your party.[/QUOTE]
What? I didn't vote republican this election.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;46418324]Voting for a third party isn't "trying to make the system work as it was intended to work". Voting for a third party is the equivalent of posting "KONY 2012" on facebook or upvoting something on reditt. It does literally nothing.
[/QUOTE]
Best thing to do is to have a forced federal fund for the promotions of all political parties, and make it illegal to use donated funds for advertisement. That way you have to force the big boys alongside all the tinies, like Greens and Fascists. But we won't have that, because all politicians place their party above the country and people themselves.
[QUOTE=Fish Muffin;46414274]Red or blue, its the same color when they pull it out of your ass.[/QUOTE]
My shit is not purple, thank you very much
[QUOTE=catbarf;46415447]Which is a big part of why the Republicans just won, because a lot of people don't like when the President uses executive orders to enact policy and cirumvent the legislative branch of government. The public perception of Obama right now is an ineffectual autocrat, so it's no surprise that the Republicans could cruise in on a promise to stand up to him.[/QUOTE]
Which just goes to show how stupid and worthless the American people and their opinions are.
The executive branch is given the power to issue executive orders precisely so it can lead in times like this, when Congress is fucking useless, or even in times when it just thinks resources and effort could be better contributed elsewhere. That's how simple it is; using them does not make the president a tyrant-- the office may utilize this function of power, whether they like it or not.
Goddammit does this piss me off. And the Republicans are crafty enough to know they can spoonfeed this blind, nonsensical people this bullshit in their rhetoric, and they'll happily eat it up.
[editline]5th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheTalon;46418354]Except they shut down the government because they didn't get their way. Like, this piece of legislature was proposed (Affordable Healthcare Act), everyone voted on it like they were supposed to, and it passed. Then when it came time for that legislation to actually take effect, the republicans managed to completely shut down the government unless it was undone by not raising the debt ceiling, and some fucking how it was a republican leader that had sole power to re-open talks or some shit. Basically they said fuck democracy
They held out for 2 weeks and got nothing. That's not democracy, that's just fucked up[/QUOTE]
They held the government hostage, politically speaking. "Either that or this". And we got the shutdown as a result. The fact people already forget this when it barely happened a year ago is a really illuminating sign showing just how out of touch so many Americans are with our present reality and with our history.
It's also really disappointing, but hey, that's just how it is.
This year's elections:
Two more years of political shittery confirmed 100%.
U.S. elections are like groundhog day, except the groundhog is dead and even if it were capable of seeing its own shadow or not, it wouldn't matter because the sun already set.
I don't know why people think that voting Republican is going to make unemployment go down, when big business, the rich, and employers benefit from high unemployment because it means they have more leverage over their workers.
I have no doubt in my mind that the first order of business is to burn the country down.
It's going to be two years of hell. And if the Republicans aren't ousted in 2016, this country is over.
[QUOTE=.Lain;46418314]lol what kind of idiotic logic is that
'vote for one of the most popular parties or dont vote at all!!'
you are literally the reason there aren't more than two popular parties[/QUOTE]
He's the messenger, and he isn't wrong. Citizens United did far more practical damage to third party candidates than any forum posts about throwing away votes ever did.
[editline]5th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;46418894]I don't know why people think that voting Republican is going to make unemployment go down, when big business, the rich, and employers benefit from high unemployment because it means they have more leverage over their workers.[/QUOTE]
Rick Scott, a Republican who just won re-election, brought 800,000 jobs to Florida making it one of the first states to recover from the 2008 recession.
He has terrible education and environmental policy but credit where credit is due, Republicans sometimes can come through with their promise of jobs.
should've voted green
3rd parties made record vote counts on the 5th
I didn't see any green choices on my ballot. Everything is blue or red. I honestly don't care what party, I just want to see things get better.
[QUOTE={TFS} Rock Su;46414597]More taxes for the poor and more money spending for the US military!
Everyone wins! /s[/QUOTE]
Well actually the military is a good way to get a education and skills for a future civilian career.
You get meals provided for you, housing, the only real bills are your cell phone bills, groceries and probably auto insurance if you get a car. Not sure if they cover that last one for you, but hey all your paychecks can go directly into savings without having to worry about debt.
What if it's the republican way of providing for the poor?
edit;
[QUOTE=Duck M.;46415535]Now, If Obama uses executive order than the Republicans will paint him as a tyrant who's exceeding his given power, and if he doesn't he'll be painted as useless, incompetent, and apathetic. I'm sick of the GOPs manipulative scheming and I'm even more sick of the American people believing it.[/QUOTE]
The democrat's have a lot more democrat-friendly news channels then the republicans tbh. They should be able to manipulate media perception more.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;46419588]Well actually the military is a good way to get a education and skills for a future civilian career.
You get meals provided for you, housing, the only real bills are your cell phone bills, groceries and probably auto insurance if you get a car. Not sure if they cover that last one for you, but hey all your paychecks can go directly into savings without having to worry about debt.
What if it's the republican way of providing for the poor?[/QUOTE]
Insert "we're exploiting poor people to fight for us" comment here
[QUOTE=da space core;46414692]I honestly don't get republicans idea of trickle down economics
The last time they tried it, Hoover was president
Ask him how that went[/QUOTE]
If it's the last time they tried it, why do people keep associating them with it? Everyone who was in government then is dead now.
[editline]5th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kybalt;46415437]The last bill passed by congress was around March.
[url]http://www.congress-summary.com/C-113th-Congress/Laws_Passed_113th_Congress_Seq.html[/url]
Republicans are going to make Obama veto some shitty bills and then come election, they're going to run on the 'Democrats obstructed congress and we got nothing done because of them! They even veto'd the Puppy and Kitten Protection Act!' platform, and the people and media will eat it up.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that essentially what the Democrats have been running on?
2 more years of gridlock....
I don't want to live in this country anymore.
in other words...
Welcome to Gilded Age 2.0 where the issues are made up, and voting doesn't matter!
[QUOTE=adamsz;46420971]2 more years of gridlock....
I don't want to live in this country anymore.
in other words...
Welcome to Gilded Age 2.0 where the issues are made up. and voting doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]
What issues are made up? And why do you say that voting doesn't matter? Obviously it matters - we just saw a different party take over the Senate. How does that indicate that voting doesn't matter?
[QUOTE=Fish Muffin;46414274]Red or blue, its the same color when they pull it out of your ass.[/QUOTE]
A boot on your neck is a boot on your neck no matter the color
[QUOTE=Code3Response;46416535]Its not even majority wins. If it were, you would see a vast difference in the elections. Of course, this is implying that the populous rules and not land area.
Take Texas for example. The ubran areas of the state vote Democratic while the rural parts historically have voted Republican.
Even with a majority of people voting for Obama, Romney won ultimately because of the land mass of rural, republican voting counties
[t]https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/goldsberry-texas-allpresidentialvotes-map.png?w=1024[/t]
[t]https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/goldsberry-texas-electoral-distribution-map.png?w=1024[/t]
[URL]http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mapping-the-changing-face-of-the-lone-star-state/[/URL]
Our system is strange. Most people have a love-hate relationship with it.[/QUOTE]
Please stop spreading misinformation. This is only true for the House of Representatives, not the Senate.
[QUOTE=Code3Response;46416535]Its not even majority wins. If it were, you would see a vast difference in the elections. Of course, this is implying that the populous rules and not land area.
Take Texas for example. The ubran areas of the state vote Democratic while the rural parts historically have voted Republican.
Even with a majority of people voting for Obama, Romney won ultimately because of the land mass of rural, republican voting counties
[t]https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/goldsberry-texas-allpresidentialvotes-map.png?w=1024[/t]
[t]https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/goldsberry-texas-electoral-distribution-map.png?w=1024[/t]
[url]http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/mapping-the-changing-face-of-the-lone-star-state/[/url]
Our system is strange. Most people have a love-hate relationship with it.[/QUOTE]
What the hell are you talking about? Romney won the popular vote in Texas by more than a million votes.
[QUOTE=mfreyrie;46415683]
Is it THAT hard just to progressively plagiarize the European system?[/QUOTE]
It is. So many of us vote down party lines without even thinking about how that's fucking us in the ass that it's almost impossible to get something we desperately need. Republicans are against universal healthcare even though it would personally benefit every last one of them and save them an absolute fortune all because their party is basically 'fend for yourself, bootstraps, blablabla'.
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