• Israel creates giant detention facility for illegal Muslim and Christians; is letting them stay.
    81 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Monkah;43258504]No, as in the option to be transported via airplane. Also, where exactly did you read that last part from?[/QUOTE] ok so being transported via airplane instantly makes them immune to retaliation once they land. brilliant (read: abysmal) logic you got there. and I got the rest by actually reading the article. [quote]Several hundred of the first migrants sent to the facility have fled, marching across the desert to Jerusalem and Tel Aviv in protest. They demanded either asylum or to be turned over to an international refugee agency[/quote] You know the thing you generally do if you're going to fucking talk about it. [editline]20th December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258521]Explain again how deporting refugees is the exact same as genocide? I mean, it's not the best thing to do, but it's not the same thing as what the Nazis did.[/QUOTE] because you're sending them to their deaths? What the fuck do you think happens to refugee's who are deported back to their country?
[QUOTE=katbug;43258526]The Nazi's didn't start by outright killing people. They made ghettos, forced citizens to let soldiers stay with them, and displaced and dehumanized people first.[/QUOTE] Within 10 years they were killing people. Meanwhile Israel has been violating human rights for 50 years and has yet to systematically kill millions of people.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258539]Within 10 years they were killing people. Meanwhile Israel has been violating human rights for 50 years and has yet to systematically kill millions of people.[/QUOTE] ok so that instantly makes it a nonpossibility. "If you abuse human rights for more then ten years without resorting to genocide then you're not a Nazi!" brilliant.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43258532] because you're sending them to their deaths? What the fuck do you think happens to refugee's who are deported back to their country?[/QUOTE] The title of the news story is "Israel says it won’t forcibly deport illegal African migrants, but it wants them to leave" Israel isn't sending anybody to their death, it just isn't letting refugees start a new life in Israel? Terrible? Yes. Nazism? No.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258500]Yeah man, because Israel is totally systematically killing millions of people.[/QUOTE] Maybe not in a blatant fashion. [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1580339/Israeli-minister-vows-Palestinian-holocaust.html"]Israel Minister vows "[B]bigger holocaust[/B]" upon Palestinians [/URL] When Israel themselves threatens the execution of a "bigger holocaust" against the Palestinians then they're pretty much open to any Nazi Germany comparison, not that more were needed anyways.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258500]Yeah man, because Israel is totally systematically killing millions of people.[/QUOTE] Nazi germany didn't out right start killing people. First, they rounded them up in ghettos, then took them to prison camps, and [I]then[/I] they killed them. Huh, nope, no connection at all.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258554]The title of the news story is "Israel says it won’t forcibly deport illegal African migrants, but it wants them to leave" Israel isn't sending anybody to their death, it just isn't letting refugees start a new life in Israel? Terrible? Yes. Nazism? No.[/QUOTE] except they are forcibly deporting people from their country or sending them to internment camps the Nazi's did both of these things.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43258547]ok so that instantly makes it a nonpossibility. "If you abuse human rights for more then ten years without resorting to genocide then you're not a Nazi!" brilliant.[/QUOTE] Sorry, you were the one comparing Israel to Nazism, I have yet to see Israel kill anybody in a similar fashion to the Nazis.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258563]Sorry, you were the one comparing Israel to Nazism, I have yet to see Israel kill anybody in a similar fashion to the Nazis.[/QUOTE] the nazi's didn't start out with genocide? Are you having trouble comprehending the fact that normalization of abuse will lead to escalation of abuse?
[QUOTE=Tmaxx;43258558]Nazi germany didn't out right start killing people. First, they rounded them up in ghettos, then took them to prison camps, and [I]then[/I] they killed them. Huh, nope, no connection at all.[/QUOTE] No. There isn't. You guys always assume there's a slippery slope when there's absolutely no evidence of that. [editline]21st December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Kyle902;43258575]the nazi's didn't start out with genocide? Are you having trouble comprehending the fact that normalization of abuse will lead to escalation of abuse?[/QUOTE] See above.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258580]No. There isn't. You guys always assume there's a slippery slope when there's absolutely no evidence of that.[/QUOTE] Except for germany?
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43258590]Except for germany?[/QUOTE] Right, the country you just compared them to. "Israel is just like Nazi Germany, because Nazi Germany is like Nazi Germany" [editline]21st December 2013[/editline] such paranoia
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258596]Right, the country you just compared them to. "Israel is just like Nazi Germany, because Nazi Germany is like Nazi Germany" [editline]21st December 2013[/editline] such paranoia[/QUOTE] No the comparison was "Israel is acting like Nazi germany because their actions parallel those that Germany pulled off" Give me a solid concrete reason this won't escalate.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;43258556]Maybe not in a blatant fashion. [URL="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1580339/Israeli-minister-vows-Palestinian-holocaust.html"]Israel Minister vows "[B]bigger holocaust[/B]" upon Palestinians [/URL] When Israel themselves threatens the execution of a "bigger holocaust" against the Palestinians then they're pretty much open to any Nazi Germany comparison, not that more were needed anyways.[/QUOTE] I don't know what to say to this because this is a legitimate point. I'm not saying Israel is a perfect country, because it's not, I'm saying that I highly doubt they will actually commit to genocide. There have been a lot of countries saying they will do x thing but never do it, because it's not realistic. I still don't believe Israel will ever systemically kill the Palestinians similar to how Nazi Germany systemically killed the Jews. Maybe when it happens I'll eat these words, but I highly doubt it will. Especially since people have been calling for this for a while, but it's never happened. [editline]21st December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Kyle902;43258608]No the comparison was "Israel is acting like Nazi germany because their actions parallel those that Germany pulled off" Give me a solid concrete reason this won't escalate.[/QUOTE] Give me a solid reason it will. The burden of proof lies on your shoulders. If you believe that I need to prove that escalation to genocide is a normal thing then maybe you should re-examine history. Or you're just a nut.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258611] [editline]21st December 2013[/editline] Give me a solid reason it will. The burden of proof lies on your shoulders. If you believe that I need to prove that escalation to genocide is a normal thing then maybe you should re-examine history again.[/QUOTE] dude all genocides occur because hatred for a minority is normalized. Give me one genocide that wasn't caused by rising tensions between the affected population and those that perpetrated the act.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43258640]dude all genocides occur because hatred for a minority is normalized. Give me one genocide that wasn't caused by rising tensions between the affected population and those that perpetrated the act.[/QUOTE] That might be true but it also doesn't really mean anything, that's almost like saying all murders occur because someone didn't like someone else. Oh so I don't like you, therefore I'm going to murder you? I think in this day and age, the Israeli government is responsible and intelligent enough NOT to systematically kill a minority group while under the watchful eye of the entire world. There are certain thresholds that need to be met for this to happen, and there's really no proof that anything has reached a threshold pointing to genocide yet.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258580]No. There isn't. You guys always assume there's a slippery slope when there's absolutely no evidence of that. [editline]21st December 2013[/editline] See above.[/QUOTE] It [I]is[/I] a slippery slo- why the fuck are you defending this? Why are you defending a country that forcibly puts people in "detention camps" because they're different? You are literally a nazi sympathizer.
[QUOTE=Tmaxx;43258663]It [I]is[/I] a slippery slo- why the fuck are you defending this? Why are you defending a country that forcibly puts people in "detention camps" because they're different? You are literally a nazi sympathizer.[/QUOTE] Yeah man, I pointed out the breakdown in your logic therefore I'm a nazi sympathizer. Brilliant. You guys are being illogical and sensationalist comparing Israel to Nazi Germany, but apparently that makes me a Nazi.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258658]That might be true but it also doesn't really mean anything, that's almost like saying all murders occur because someone didn't like someone else. Oh so I don't like you, therefore I'm going to murder you? I think in this day and age, the Israeli government is responsible and intelligent enough NOT to systematically kill a minority group while under the watchful eye of the entire world.[/QUOTE] the difference between murder and genocide is that murder involves one person. Genocide occurs because a population is taught to hate a group of people. It doesn't matter if the current administration won't do anything overt. They are raising their future population in a culture of hate, which will lead to an escalation.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258611] Give me a solid reason it will.[/QUOTE] Because they've said they would.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258675]Yeah man, I pointed out the breakdown in your logic therefore I'm a nazi sympathizer. Brilliant. You guys are being illogical and sensationalist comparing Israel to Nazi Germany, but apparently that makes me a Nazi.[/QUOTE] you're missing the point [I]the government of that country is putting people in camps because they're different[/I] [I][B]and you're defending it.[/B][/I]
Hmm, I wonder what Sobotnik has to say.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43258679]the difference between murder and genocide is that murder involves one person. Genocide occurs because a population is taught to hate a group of people. It doesn't matter if the current administration won't do anything overt. They are raising their future population in a culture of hate, which will lead to an escalation.[/QUOTE] I also don't know about this. I personally don't know any Israelis, but I know a lot of Jewish people and a lot of Muslims. A lot of the Jews have been to Israel and experienced it first hand and have told me what they think. None of them don't hate Arabs, at least not similar to how Nazis hated the Jews. I have yet to see any proof that their culture is one of hate. Some of them are wary of the actions of Hamas and such, but that doesn't mean they are supportive of wide-scale genocide by any means. A lot of the Arabs I know say the same thing. You can say "a culture of hate" but I have yet to see proof of that. Israel might be a slightly xenophobic society that is wary of outsiders, but that doesn't always result in them supporting wide-spread genocide. [editline]21st December 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Tmaxx;43258696]you're missing the point [I]the government of that country is putting people in camps because they're different[/I] [I][B]and you're defending it.[/B][/I][/QUOTE] Heh, What about the USA, who just deports illegal immigrants? How is Israel any worse? I just don't get the circlejerk hate for Israel.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258722]I also don't know about this. I personally don't know any Israelis, but I know a lot of Jewish people and a lot of Muslims. A lot of the Jews have been to Israel and experienced it first hand and have told me what they think. None of them don't hate Arabs, at least not similar to how Nazis hated the Jews. I have yet to see any proof that their culture is one of hate. Some of them are wary of the actions of Hamas and such, but that doesn't mean they are supportive of wide-scale genocide by any means. A lot of the Arabs I know say the same thing. You can say "a culture of hate" but I have yet to see proof of that. Israel might be a slightly xenophobic society that is wary of outsiders, but that doesn't always result in them supporting wide-spread genocide. [/quote] The few arabs and israelis you know are not a representation of a whole. [quote] Heh, What about the USA, who just deports illegal immigrants? How is Israel any worse?[/QUOTE] are you stupid? The USA deports illegal immigrants. These are refugee's which the country almost always takes in.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43258738]The few arabs and israelis you know are not a representation of a whole. [/QUOTE] And you know... none? You're just pulling shit from your ass. Culture of hate? Directly from your ass. [quote] are you stupid? The USA deports illegal immigrants. These are refugee's which the country almost always takes in.[/quote] Yeah I realize this, but Israel also isn't directly sending anybody to their deaths. [quote]Most waited quietly after crossing the border to be detained by Israeli army patrols. They were housed for a few weeks or a few months in a detention facility, then given a bus ticket to Tel Aviv. There, they received an identification card and, eventually, a deportation order, which was not enforced because the government did not want to forcibly send them home. Many found off-the-books jobs as cooks, dishwashers and hotel maids.[/quote] Oops. This is literally just an illegal immigration deterrent, not a death squad killing people.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258759]And you know... none? You're just pulling shit from your ass. Culture of hate? Directly from your ass. [/quote] nice assumptions you have there. I obviously don't have an Uncle who is not only jewish but half israeli or anything. oh wait. Nevermind the fallacious nature of the argument "I KNOW THESE PEOPLE BETTER THEN YOU DO I HAVE JEWISH FRIENDS" [quote] Yeah I realize this, but Israel also isn't directly sending anybody to their deaths. Oops. This is literally just an illegal immigration deterrent, not a death squad killing people.[/quote] Plenty of genocides have been done under the guise of "deportation" Ex. The Armenian Genocide.
[QUOTE=Kyle902;43258803]nice assumptions you have there. I obviously don't have an Uncle who is not only jewish but half israeli or anything. oh wait. Nevermind the fallacious nature of the argument "I KNOW THESE PEOPLE BETTER THEN YOU DO I HAVE JEWISH FRIENDS" Plenty of genocides have been done under the guise of "deportation" Ex. The Armenian Genocide.[/QUOTE] Please shut up your stupidity is actually making Israel look good.
like seriously you are resorting to baseless assumptions pls stop
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43258722]I also don't know about this. I personally don't know any Israelis, but I know a lot of Jewish people and a lot of Muslims. A lot of the Jews have been to Israel and experienced it first hand and have told me what they think. None of them don't hate Arabs, at least not similar to how Nazis hated the Jews. I have yet to see any proof that their culture is one of hate. Some of them are wary of the actions of Hamas and such, but that doesn't mean they are supportive of wide-scale genocide by any means. A lot of the Arabs I know say the same thing. You can say "a culture of hate" but I have yet to see proof of that. Israel might be a slightly xenophobic society that is wary of outsiders, but that doesn't always result in them supporting wide-spread genocide.[/QUOTE] The views and beliefs of the Israeli people are entirely separate from the views and beliefs of people who happen to be jewish all arround the world. You're comparing the views of the citizens of a nation to the views of people who happen to be of the same religion (not even a religious body). That's like saying you understand the beliefs of people in Kenya because you "know a black guy". When a culture of hate develops over many generations, tensions rise and lead to conflict, that's indisputable. Whether or not a "genocide" in the traditional sense (a mass extinction all at once) actually occurs while Israel is under the watchful gaze of the rest of the world is anyone's guess. It is likely though that there has been and will continue to be a genocide of sorts to do with the systematic wiping out of all non-Israeli culture and as tensions continue to rise with nothing to stop it, abuse of human rights is likely to continue escalating.
[quote]The Association for Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI) published reports documenting racism in Israel, and the 2007 report suggested that anti-Arab racism in the country was increasing. One analysis of the report summarized it thus: "[B]Over two-thirds Israeli teens believe Arabs to be less intelligent, uncultured and violent[/B]. Over a third of Israeli teens fear Arabs all together....The report becomes even grimmer, citing the ACRI's racism poll, taken in March 2007, in which [B]50% of Israelis taking part said they would not live in the same building as Arabs, will not befriend, or let their children befriend Arabs and would not let Arabs into their homes.[/B]" The 2008 report from ACRI says the trend of increasing racism is continuing.[/quote] [URL]http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3480345,00.html[/URL] (From the same link) Poll: 81% of Israelis want JNF to sell land to Jews only. There seems to be a lot be done with regards to rectifying Israeli mentality when over two-thirds of all Israelis are shitheads. I know you can say the same might be applicable to Palestinians, and whether if it is, it can be argued to be something that is a natural byproduct of an occupied/subjugated population. E.g. I'm sure if you polled Iraqis during the American occupation they would hold the typically-held resentment towards the occupiers (i.e. "All Americans")
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