• #GamerGate bar meetup disrupted by bomb threats in Washington DC
    332 replies, posted
[QUOTE=axelord157;47652331]I'm throwing down my gauntlet. If GG doesn't care about Quinn, why were there chatlogs so rife with people obsessing over destroying Zoe's life? I think Gamergate is nothing but a giant spin. The ethics in gaming journalism lie only became important because they knew Gamergate would fall apart in the spotlight. The roots of Gamergate are fucked. Let's say Zoe was to poof out of existence, they have tons of other targets. I'm read the Gamergate board of 8chan to get a look into their heads. They seem to be really obsessed with SJWs and far-right conspiracy theories. Gamergate has some strange bedfellows for an ethical movement. Like Milo, Roosh, and Christina Hoff Sommers and a couple more.[/QUOTE] Why are you attacking Sommers? What is with people who attack Sommers? She's an actual feminist who has worked for actual change and actually done things. She's a good person and isn't an anti feminist just because she dares voice that there are problems. Quinn isn't important. We don't talk about her. She was a spark plug to this whole mess so of course she was talked about at the beginning, but you'll take the people who went too far with it and claim we're all like that, so that's a guilty by association fallacy that you're applicable to as well. Someone threatened to bomb GG, you obviously, by your own logic here, are supportive of that, and want that to be something done more often. See, guilty by association, just a load of shit. Zoe is also an outed abuser. Her behaviour in her relationships was outed by herself in her own defense of herself and her actions in an article she published. She used the same chat logs Eron did to claim she wasn't a bad person, by omitting things that showed her as a bad person. There however, was a lot of it that proved she had seriously abused a man, and by virtue of being a woman, was seen as having done nothing wrong. That rubbed a lot of people the wrong was as it should have. What are our targets? Websites and news sites. By and large, we don't attack people, and yes, you can fall back to guilty by association, but that's still bullshit. We "attack" websites, we pull their funding because we're their audience, we make up the bulk of their audience as it turns out, and we're tired of them spitting right in our faces. So those are our targets. Not the women you're inevitably going to say our our targets, even though we have plenty of women in our ranks. But, again, I've heard the argument those women have internalized the misogyny and don't know better. Though, if I'm honest, that is about the most offensive thing I've ever heard and entirely robs those women of their agency as people, make that claim more misogynistic than the majority of gators, and that's a line oft parroted by much of the AGG narrative. Milo is not someone we support by and large from my understanding, and he's not someone I support, but he does do his research. He may be a shitty person, but he's got a leg up on other journalists because he does his damn job. AGG has some strange bedfellows for an "ethical" movement to stop a consumer revolt. Like libel, slander, swatting, harrasement, block lists, divisive tactics, an "Us against them" narrative, insulting their audience, endorsing doxxing of GGer's due to their allegiance to GG making them valid targets. I mean really, if that's how you want to trade blows, go for it, but it's weak argumentation.
[QUOTE=Scum;47649995]their stupid narrative of "FEMINISTS HAVE GONE TOO FAR!"... as well as Anders Brevik[/QUOTE] I'd hate to break the news, but criticizing feminism isn't the same as shooting up people to avenge the nazis. That's a pretty "stupid narrative" if I say so myself. Still, props for not resorting to the stupid as fuck "internalized misogyny" argument that every male feminist does to control women (kinda like what the patriarchy supposedly wants to do, oh the irony)
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47652389]Why are you attacking Sommers? What is with people who attack Sommers? She's an actual feminist who has worked for actual change and actually done things. She's a good person and isn't an anti feminist just because she dares voice that there are problems. Quinn isn't important. We don't talk about her. She was a spark plug to this whole mess so of course she was talked about at the beginning, but you'll take the people who went too far with it and claim we're all like that, so that's a guilty by association fallacy that you're applicable to as well. Someone threatened to bomb GG, you obviously, by your own logic here, are supportive of that, and want that to be something done more often. See, guilty by association, just a load of shit. Zoe is also an outed abuser. Her behaviour in her relationships was outed by herself in her own defense of herself and her actions in an article she published. She used the same chat logs Eron did to claim she wasn't a bad person, by omitting things that showed her as a bad person. There however, was a lot of it that proved she had seriously abused a man, and by virtue of being a woman, was seen as having done nothing wrong. That rubbed a lot of people the wrong was as it should have. What are our targets? Websites and news sites. By and large, we don't attack people, and yes, you can fall back to guilty by association, but that's still bullshit. We "attack" websites, we pull their funding because we're their audience, we make up the bulk of their audience as it turns out, and we're tired of them spitting right in our faces. So those are our targets. Not the women you're inevitably going to say our our targets, even though we have plenty of women in our ranks. But, again, I've heard the argument those women have internalized the misogyny and don't know better. Though, if I'm honest, that is about the most offensive thing I've ever heard and entirely robs those women of their agency as people, make that claim more misogynistic than the majority of gators, and that's a line oft parroted by much of the AGG narrative. Milo is not someone we support by and large from my understanding, and he's not someone I support, but he does do his research. He may be a shitty person, but he's got a leg up on other journalists because he does his damn job. AGG has some strange bedfellows for an "ethical" movement to stop a consumer revolt. Like libel, slander, swatting, harrasement, block lists, divisive tactics, an "Us against them" narrative, insulting their audience, endorsing doxxing of GGer's due to their allegiance to GG making them valid targets. I mean really, if that's how you want to trade blows, go for it, but it's weak argumentation.[/QUOTE] 1.) Why am I attacking Sommers? I don't think she's an actual feminist. She is a well-funded mouthpiece of the AEI, a well-known right-wing think tank. She is the only "feminist" I've seen to support MRAs (She's tweeted AVFM articles before), the antithesis of feminists. She's only a feminist in name. Actions speak louder than words. 2.) Quinn is important to GG, like it or not. Recently, Mike Cernovich is trying his bullshit lawyer/bullying nonsense with Zoe. She's been doxed to hell and back. I've seen threads on /gamergatehq/ where people are digging into her history (and family's) like there's no tomorrow. Zoe is an abuser, I guess. But what about her ex? Eron is pretty fucked up, too. He wanted revenge on Zoe. Normal people don't post the things he did on places like /r9k/, /pol/, and other online forums. He wanted it to be mass-distributed. Eron tailored his story to be entertaining, so more people would care. He wanted to amass a personal army, and here we are months later fighting on a forum that fell for his bullshit. 3.) This is where it gets funny. GG's pitiful email campaigns and "attacks" have done NOTHING. Gawker is doing fine. Kotaku is doing fine. ArsTechnica is doing fine. Wikipedia told Gamergate to fuck off. For fuck's sake, Intel backed-up Anita and the top-minds of GG thought a boycott on Intel would do something. Gamergate severely misunderstands how much power they have in their little "consumer revolt". On the subject of women supporting GG, that's cool, I guess. But have you ever seen the horrible treatment trans women have suffered from GG and friends? Even the ones who support GG face all kinds of bullshit. I guess the astroturfed #Notyourshield only goes for allies, no? 4.) Thank you for not being one of these supporters. But just one person not supporting him doesn't get rid of the fact that hundreds of other gators do. He does a shit job. He only does good research when he wants to attack people, like Wu. In what bizarro universe is that ethical? Breitbart journalists are a special breed. And by special breed I mean the ones who probably flunked journalism in college. 5.) Fun fact: Did you know Gamergate has managed to attract the positive attention of Stormfront?: [url]https://archive.is/YyKpX[/url] I don't have any memories of ethical campaigns of attracting the attention of white supremacists. Then again, what I find ethical is vastly different to what you find ethical, right? Roosh is another good example. It's feels the main figure heads of GG are agenda-pushing opportunists. Insert boxes and replies below.
[QUOTE=axelord157;47652331]If GG doesn't care about Quinn, why were there chatlogs so rife with people obsessing over destroying Zoe's life?[/quote] Those are either old, too small, not posted publicly enough for gg to say "we don't support this", or not gg at all. [quote]I think Gamergate is nothing but a giant spin.[/quote] Correct, a spin off of Zoe becoming a "1 week celebrity". [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1418488[/url] Within a week or two it was already starting to escape anything related to ZQ but she'll always be with us like Archduke Ferdinand was with WW1. It started with her, any time someone mentions "origin" she's there. It's inescapable but it's also irrelevant, it is no longer about her as a person but her as a keystone of games journalism defending themselves. Not that that's any better, but it's not gamers' fault that she's constantly brandished as a shield at every opportunity. So to recap, ZQ being mentioned is from: -The 5 guys scandal, the origin of the energy, organization and loathing of games journalism. AKA "the origin of gamergate" -Journalists defending themselves by using her name, thus getting her more attention and more criticism. -She's still active, still going to the fucking US CONGRESS and telling them how horrible gamers are, that's pretty relevant to everyone. [quote]The ethics in gaming journalism lie only became important because they knew Gamergate would fall apart in the spotlight.[/quote] [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1418488&p=45723356&viewfull=1#post45723356[/url] Here's codemaster, the very same day it made the news, already expressing how he's fucking happy that #burgersandfries might kill kotaku. "GAMERS ARE DEAD" isn't out yet, #GG is not to be created for at least a month or two at this point. It's always been about taking a diarrhea dump on kotaku and gawker. [quote]The roots of Gamergate are fucked. Let's say Zoe was to poof out of existence, they have tons of other targets.[/quote] Yes, Polygon, The Verge, Kotaku and more. If people like Randi Harper want to label anyone who likes GG or even [url=https://feelsandreals.wordpress.com/2015/01/31/igda-puerto-rico-closes-too-suddenly/]has a tangential cursory interest in it[/url]. as harassers and then put them on a "list of disgusting individuals", they better be ready to deal with the backlash. [quote]I'm read the Gamergate board of 8chan to get a look into their heads. They seem to be really obsessed with SJWs and far-right conspiracy theories.[/quote] Discussing conspiracy theories isn't something to really laugh at or be ashamed of, After seeing the GameJournoPros mailing list it's not much of a leap to think that an organization could control it. There are people going deep into DIGRA & Silverstring Media and then coming back and having their evidence/conclusions refuted by others. One day they'll either find something that actually adds up, or give up. What's the harm? Personally I think they're not going to find anything, and that GG is the result of friendships meeting money. A seemingly sweet, kindly, but ultimately awful, venomous and anti-consumer pyramid of nepotism. [quote]Gamergate has some strange bedfellows for an ethical movement. Like Milo, Roosh, and Christina Hoff Sommers and a couple more.[/QUOTE] Eh, humanabyss said it better and I don't want to just quote him.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;47652601]Yeah just because you read a certain board, you're literally looking into the whole GG movement and everybody in it. Are you sure you aren't a little biased in your view if you're basing it on 8chan alone? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] I use Twitter and the Escapist forums too. Their activity there doesn't cast a positive light on them either.
[QUOTE=axelord157;47652331]I'm throwing down my gauntlet. If GG doesn't care about Quinn, why were there chatlogs so rife with people obsessing over destroying Zoe's life? I think Gamergate is nothing but a giant spin. The ethics in gaming journalism lie only became important because they knew Gamergate would fall apart in the spotlight. The roots of Gamergate are fucked. Let's say Zoe was to poof out of existence, they have tons of other targets. I'm read the Gamergate board of 8chan to get a look into their heads. They seem to be really obsessed with SJWs and far-right conspiracy theories. Gamergate has some strange bedfellows for an ethical movement. Like Milo, Roosh, and Christina Hoff Sommers and a couple more.[/QUOTE] yeah gg is an elaborate scheme to harass people on the internet in the disguise of pushing ethics and actual integrity in video games by doing things like donating to charities, emailing sponsors, and digging to find and expose shady dealings in the industry. that makes sense, i'm sure these anonymous people on the internet are that concerned about what others think about them to invent such an elaborate guise. zoe quinn fiasco was a big deal because it disillusioned people about the indie side of video games and the assumptions that it wasn't victim to the same trappings as the rest of the industry, and it snowballed to bigger things like finding out about how corrupt the IGDA(?) is, the coordination of journalists to blacklist certain developers and the chains of nepotism throughout the industry. you keep on mentioning milo, even though nobody here cares about him except apparently you. since gg isn't a politically-oriented thing, yes it's going to gather people from all across the political spectrum, even though as a whole the movement is shown to be mostly liberal. but that shouldn't matter because gg isn't a politically-oriented thing. you can still be part of gg without necessarily agreeing with everyone in it, with this magical thing called tolerance [QUOTE=axelord157;47652771]2.) Quinn is important to GG, like it or not. Recently, Mike Cernovich is trying his bullshit lawyer/bullying nonsense with Zoe. [/QUOTE] after she and margeret press tried to get people to swat him by posting his information online [QUOTE=axelord157;47652771]3.) This is where it gets funny. GG's pitiful email campaigns and "attacks" have done NOTHING. Gawker is doing fine. Kotaku is doing fine. ArsTechnica is doing fine. Wikipedia told Gamergate to fuck off. For fuck's sake, Intel backed-up Anita and the top-minds of GG thought a boycott on Intel would do something. Gamergate severely misunderstands how much power they have in their little "consumer revolt". On the subject of women supporting GG, that's cool, I guess. [/QUOTE] demonstrably false, gamergate has by gawker's own admission cost them millions
[QUOTE=axelord157;47652771] 5.) Fun fact: Did you know Gamergate has managed to attract the positive attention of Stormfront?: [url]https://archive.is/YyKpX[/url] I don't have any memories of ethical campaigns of attracting the attention of white supremacists. Then again, what I find ethical is vastly different to what you find ethical, right? Roosh is another good example. It's feels the main figure heads of GG are agenda-pushing opportunists. Insert boxes and replies below.[/QUOTE] [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/AgainstGamerGate/comments/2p9h0u/my_report_on_gamergate_and_stormfront/]Stormfront didn't fully support it at all.[/url]
[QUOTE=axelord157;47652771]1.) Why am I attacking Sommers? I don't think she's an actual feminist. She is a well-funded mouthpiece of the AEI, a well-known right-wing think tank. She is the only "feminist" I've seen to support MRAs (She's tweeted AVFM articles before), the antithesis of feminists. She's only a feminist in name. Actions speak louder than words.[/QUOTE] Then her actions make her more of a feminist than yourself as she has helped make ACTUAL improvements to the livelihoods of women. [QUOTE]2.) Quinn is important to GG, like it or not. Recently, Mike Cernovich is trying his bullshit lawyer/bullying nonsense with Zoe. She's been doxed to hell and back. I've seen threads on /gamergatehq/ where people are digging into her history (and family's) like there's no tomorrow. Zoe is an abuser, I guess. But what about her ex? Eron is pretty fucked up, too. He wanted revenge on Zoe. Normal people don't post the things he did on places like /r9k/, /pol/, and other online forums. He wanted it to be mass-distributed. Eron tailored his story to be entertaining, so more people would care. He wanted to amass a personal army, and here we are months later fighting on a forum that fell for his bullshit.[/QUOTE] She doxxed Mike Cernovich. She attacked him. She caused him suffering. Normal people who have their hearts ripped apart DO want revenge, and his revenge was pretty metered. He didn't harm anyone, he disclosed harmful facts that Zoe Quinn reacted badly to. He posted it once. It was censored and removed. That caused OTHER people to repost it because it was fucked up it was instantly censored. Again, you don't know what actually happened it seems. [QUOTE]3.) This is where it gets funny. GG's pitiful email campaigns and "attacks" have done NOTHING. Gawker is doing fine. Kotaku is doing fine. ArsTechnica is doing fine. Wikipedia told Gamergate to fuck off. For fuck's sake, Intel backed-up Anita and the top-minds of GG thought a boycott on Intel would do something. Gamergate severely misunderstands how much power they have in their little "consumer revolt". On the subject of women supporting GG, that's cool, I guess. But have you ever seen the horrible treatment trans women have suffered from GG and friends? Even the ones who support GG face all kinds of bullshit. I guess the astroturfed #Notyourshield only goes for allies, no?[/QUOTE] Again, this is not true. Kotaku has had a huge amount of ads pulled which has effected the rest of Gawker. How wrong you are. We actually KNOW we're pretty small and powerless. That's why we keep fighting. Because we're small, and we have small pull, we have to keep trying. Have you seen the horrible things that have happened to trans people, women, and LGBT members who don't toe the AGG line? They're considered to be traitors to their other people. They're ostracized and told they aren't trans enough, they're not progressive enough. So you'll call that astroturfed? So, not only do you have the arrogance to say "THose aren't real people" you'll have the arrogance to say that it was JUST white people behind it? That's offensive, sexist, racist, and horrible straight up because you DON'T respect people of different races or sexual preferences UNLESS they agree with you, which is disgusting. Give them their agency. We do. [QUOTE]4.) Thank you for not being one of these supporters. But just one person not supporting him doesn't get rid of the fact that hundreds of other gators do. He does a shit job. He only does good research when he wants to attack people, like Wu. In what bizarro universe is that ethical? Breitbart journalists are a special breed. And by special breed I mean the ones who probably flunked journalism in college. [/QUOTE] At least they TOOK journalism as opposed to almost all AGG "Journalists" who DON'T HAVE ANY JOURNALISM BACKGROUND. [QUOTE]5.) Fun fact: Did you know Gamergate has managed to attract the positive attention of Stormfront?: [url]https://archive.is/YyKpX[/url] I don't have any memories of ethical campaigns of attracting the attention of white supremacists. Then again, what I find ethical is vastly different to what you find ethical, right? Roosh is another good example. It's feels the main figure heads of GG are agenda-pushing opportunists. [/QUOTE] So what? I don't even know who Roosh is. Who cares if they say they support us. You can't attack us for their actions. We DON'T want their support. You don't get to claim we're them because you want to. That's a guilty by association fallacy. And again, by using it against you in the same way you use it against me. You support SWATTing. You support Bomb threats and death threats. [QUOTE]Insert boxes and replies below.[/QUOTE] I don't need to box you to know your arguments are weak. I've torn through them all. They all rely on you using guilty by association. All. Of. Them. [editline]3rd May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=axelord157;47652785]I use Twitter and the Escapist forums too. Their activity there doesn't cast a positive light on them either.[/QUOTE] Your first thought upon seeing coloured, trans, and LGBT people who aren't in line with your thoughts are that they are "Sock puppets" or "astroturfed". I'm going to tell you right now, that makes you a fucking huge racist and sexist. You're saying "You can't hold those opinions, you don't have the agency to do so, here, listen to me, I know best". That is so condescending, patronizing, offensive, and insulting. But of course, you're the good guy here, right?
[QUOTE=axelord157;47652771]1.) Why am I attacking Sommers? I don't think she's an actual feminist. She is a well-funded mouthpiece of the AEI, a well-known right-wing think tank. She is the only "feminist" I've seen to support MRAs (She's tweeted AVFM articles before), the antithesis of feminists. She's only a feminist in name. Actions speak louder than words. 2.) Quinn is important to GG, like it or not. Recently, Mike Cernovich is trying his bullshit lawyer/bullying nonsense with Zoe. She's been doxed to hell and back. I've seen threads on /gamergatehq/ where people are digging into her history (and family's) like there's no tomorrow. Zoe is an abuser, I guess. But what about her ex? Eron is pretty fucked up, too. He wanted revenge on Zoe. Normal people don't post the things he did on places like /r9k/, /pol/, and other online forums. He wanted it to be mass-distributed. Eron tailored his story to be entertaining, so more people would care. He wanted to amass a personal army, and here we are months later fighting on a forum that fell for his bullshit. 3.) This is where it gets funny. GG's pitiful email campaigns and "attacks" have done NOTHING. Gawker is doing fine. Kotaku is doing fine. ArsTechnica is doing fine. Wikipedia told Gamergate to fuck off. For fuck's sake, Intel backed-up Anita and the top-minds of GG thought a boycott on Intel would do something. Gamergate severely misunderstands how much power they have in their little "consumer revolt". On the subject of women supporting GG, that's cool, I guess. But have you ever seen the horrible treatment trans women have suffered from GG and friends? Even the ones who support GG face all kinds of bullshit. I guess the astroturfed #Notyourshield only goes for allies, no? 4.) Thank you for not being one of these supporters. But just one person not supporting him doesn't get rid of the fact that hundreds of other gators do. He does a shit job. He only does good research when he wants to attack people, like Wu. In what bizarro universe is that ethical? Breitbart journalists are a special breed. And by special breed I mean the ones who probably flunked journalism in college. 5.) Fun fact: Did you know Gamergate has managed to attract the positive attention of Stormfront?: [url]https://archive.is/YyKpX[/url] I don't have any memories of ethical campaigns of attracting the attention of white supremacists. Then again, what I find ethical is vastly different to what you find ethical, right? Roosh is another good example. It's feels the main figure heads of GG are agenda-pushing opportunists. Insert boxes and replies below.[/QUOTE] 1). Is just something you didn't even think up yourself, that's literally said every time someone mentions her. These 6 words, in this exact order. "Well-known right-wing think tank". MRM is not an "antithesis of feminism", what are you talking about. 4). And those who haven't all sit in Gawker, right. Because between journalists who never do any research at all and journalists who only do research to support their agenda I'll pick the latter. Every single time. And I'm a journalist myself. Professional one. It's the data that matters. 5). Oh no, neo-nazis picked interest in something legitimate. Better jump ship. Also, judging by the posts on the link you've presented, we have mostly A-GG to thank for that, that's their narrative about young white males.
[QUOTE=axelord157;47652771]1.) Why am I attacking Sommers? I don't think she's an actual feminist. She is a well-funded mouthpiece of the AEI, a well-known right-wing think tank. [B]She is the only "feminist" I've seen to support MRAs (She's tweeted AVFM articles before), the antithesis of feminists[/B]. She's only a feminist in name. Actions speak louder than words. [/QUOTE] So feminism doesn't care about men's rights? How is it an egalitarian movement for equal rights if you think that feminism is the antithesis of men's rights?
[QUOTE=axelord157;47652771]1.) Why am I attacking Sommers? I don't think she's an actual feminist. She is a well-funded mouthpiece of the AEI, a well-known right-wing think tank. She is the only "feminist" I've seen to support MRAs (She's tweeted AVFM articles before), the antithesis of feminists. She's only a feminist in name. Actions speak louder than words. 2.) Quinn is important to GG, like it or not. Recently, Mike Cernovich is trying his bullshit lawyer/bullying nonsense with Zoe. She's been doxed to hell and back. I've seen threads on /gamergatehq/ where people are digging into her history (and family's) like there's no tomorrow. Zoe is an abuser, I guess. But what about her ex? Eron is pretty fucked up, too. He wanted revenge on Zoe. Normal people don't post the things he did on places like /r9k/, /pol/, and other online forums. He wanted it to be mass-distributed. Eron tailored his story to be entertaining, so more people would care. He wanted to amass a personal army, and here we are months later fighting on a forum that fell for his bullshit. 3.) This is where it gets funny. GG's pitiful email campaigns and "attacks" have done NOTHING. Gawker is doing fine. Kotaku is doing fine. ArsTechnica is doing fine. Wikipedia told Gamergate to fuck off. For fuck's sake, Intel backed-up Anita and the top-minds of GG thought a boycott on Intel would do something. Gamergate severely misunderstands how much power they have in their little "consumer revolt". On the subject of women supporting GG, that's cool, I guess. But have you ever seen the horrible treatment trans women have suffered from GG and friends? Even the ones who support GG face all kinds of bullshit. I guess the astroturfed #Notyourshield only goes for allies, no? 4.) Thank you for not being one of these supporters. But just one person not supporting him doesn't get rid of the fact that hundreds of other gators do. He does a shit job. He only does good research when he wants to attack people, like Wu. In what bizarro universe is that ethical? Breitbart journalists are a special breed. And by special breed I mean the ones who probably flunked journalism in college. 5.) Fun fact: Did you know Gamergate has managed to attract the positive attention of Stormfront?: [url]https://archive.is/YyKpX[/url] I don't have any memories of ethical campaigns of attracting the attention of white supremacists. Then again, what I find ethical is vastly different to what you find ethical, right? Roosh is another good example. It's feels the main figure heads of GG are agenda-pushing opportunists. Insert boxes and replies below.[/QUOTE] As for point 1, Feminism is the "Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes." Your argument is that she occasionally discusses topics brought up by men groups in the pursuit of this equality and that this makes her the "antithesis" of what a feminist should be (implied to be one who does not normally converse with those who present controversial points of view.) She thinks that one should examine issues from both sides of the board. She may be the only "feminist" "supporting" "MRAs," but she is also one of the only feminists who believes that "the patriarchy" isn't out to get her and that the appropriation of falsehoods are not conducive to her goals and that ends don't justify the means. That falsehoods only serve to harm both women and men in the long run. I guess in that sense she is not a "feminist" because she doesn't tacitly believe everything said by her peers and first poses (admittedly well reasoned) questions. Her involvement with conservatives may be enough to cause initial alarm but I always fail to see people deconstructing her actual arguments. The only real criticism you provide of her is guilt by association. That because she associates with group x or converses with group y, she is automatically wrong, and not because of anything she has actually said has been shown to be wrong. Quinn is important to GG, like it or not. Reasons given: Mike Cernovich (one guy, mostly forgotten,) an unspecified number of threads on /gamergatehq/ (how many? how recently?) and Eron (one guy, mostly forgotten,) who is full of "bullshit," (I guess his stories were disproven at some point and I missed that memo.) So she is important because of two nobodies and a couple of threads on a forum squirreled away that happened at an indeterminate point in time. Yeah, I can see how that makes her extremely relevant. The attacks have done nothing. Of course we have no power, we're a bunch of gamers vs [I]the media[/I]. Thanks for stating the obvious. They control the public perception, they control what gets heard. Of course we look like the bad guys, their job is to make us look like the bad guys because we're a group that's directly attempting to damage their bottom line. Wikipedia has a very biased moderation team (look up ryulong to see the type of person who works against GG on Wikipedia, though they had to get rid of him because he was so crazy it was making the rest of them look bad. They had to tone it down a bit.) You talk about the harassment that certain minorities may have received on one or another side. This is a problem, yes. Doesn't mean all the rational people should just pack up and go home. You say that #notyourshield is astroturfing (i.e., when an organization manipulates the media to make it appear as though an event was a grassroots effort,) to which I ask which organization did the manipulating? What corporation or religion or agency is responsible? If it is astroturfing then who is doing it? Explain to me in detail what company is responsible and show me the paper trail. It is already established that GamerGate is already a grassroots effort (so astroturfing cannot apply,) or else the whole narrative that you wish to push (that it's a smokescreen by a bunch of hateful nobodies to destroy one nobody's life who is important because of two nobodies and a nobody thread,) falls apart. No comment on Milo. A white supremacist tangentially agrees with GG. I don't understand your point. I'm sure you tangentially agree with white supremacists on certain points, that does not automatically discredit you. See first paragraph, guilt by association. See also Daryl Davis' work, most notably the Silver Dollar Lounge for an interesting fugue on agreeing with those whom you are meant to hate.
People laughed when the college Sarkeesian was supposed to speak on got threats by some neckbeard over phone, but when another neckbeard threathens to bomb a GG meet up (over Twitter lmao) it's super serious? That seems kinda hypocritical to me
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47652836]Then her actions make her more of a feminist than yourself as she has helped make ACTUAL improvements to the livelihoods of women. She doxxed Mike Cernovich. She attacked him. She caused him suffering. Normal people who have their hearts ripped apart DO want revenge, and his revenge was pretty metered. He didn't harm anyone, he disclosed harmful facts that Zoe Quinn reacted badly to. He posted it once. It was censored and removed. That caused OTHER people to repost it because it was fucked up it was instantly censored. Again, you don't know what actually happened it seems. Again, this is not true. Kotaku has had a huge amount of ads pulled which has effected the rest of Gawker. How wrong you are. We actually KNOW we're pretty small and powerless. That's why we keep fighting. Because we're small, and we have small pull, we have to keep trying. Have you seen the horrible things that have happened to trans people, women, and LGBT members who don't toe the AGG line? They're considered to be traitors to their other people. They're ostracized and told they aren't trans enough, they're not progressive enough. So you'll call that astroturfed? So, not only do you have the arrogance to say "THose aren't real people" you'll have the arrogance to say that it was JUST white people behind it? That's offensive, sexist, racist, and horrible straight up because you DON'T respect people of different races or sexual preferences UNLESS they agree with you, which is disgusting. Give them their agency. We do. At least they TOOK journalism as opposed to almost all AGG "Journalists" who DON'T HAVE ANY JOURNALISM BACKGROUND. So what? I don't even know who Roosh is. Who cares if they say they support us. You can't attack us for their actions. We DON'T want their support. You don't get to claim we're them because you want to. That's a guilty by association fallacy. And again, by using it against you in the same way you use it against me. You support SWATTing. You support Bomb threats and death threats. I don't need to box you to know your arguments are weak. I've torn through them all. They all rely on you using guilty by association. All. Of. Them. [editline]3rd May 2015[/editline] [B]Your first thought upon seeing coloured, trans, and LGBT people who aren't in line with your thoughts are that they are "Sock puppets" or "astroturfed". I'm going to tell you right now, that makes you a fucking huge racist and sexist. You're saying "You can't hold those opinions, you don't have the agency to do so, here, listen to me, I know best". That is so condescending, patronizing, offensive, and insulting. But of course, you're the good guy here, right?[/B][/QUOTE] Actually, it wasn't my first thought, I used to support Gamergate myself. I did, what GG always mock, listened and believed. I'm also aware people get caught-up in movements that don't look out for their interests. Also, It's more or less of some of those shields actually being fake. Don't you find it funny that Gamergate only cared about diversity when its used to deflect criticism of them being a bunch of angry white dudes? My skepticism is well-founded: [url]http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/09/09/new-chat-logs-show-how-4chan-users-pushed-gamergate-into-the-national-spotlight/[/url] [url]http://www.onehundredyearhorizons.com/sock-puppets-and-gamergate-depravity/[/url] I'll admit, I misspoke, but Kotaku and Gawker only lost the fight, not the battle. Source: [url]http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/media/2014/12/8558320/gawker-discusses-cost-gamergate[/url] [QUOTE]Ultimately, the gamergate controversy had more of an effect on Gawker's management than its bottom line. The company's revenue has increased 30 percent year-over-year, and Denton announced to the newsroom before the all-hands meeting that the 2015 editorial budget is $14 million. But the internal dissension over gamergate was one of the things that prompted Denton to replace Johnson with Craggs and name a seven-person managing partnership to run the company.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=CrucialSeBBi;47653102]People laughed when the college Sarkeesian was supposed to speak on got threats by some neckbeard over phone, but when another neckbeard threathens to bomb a GG meet up (over Twitter lmao) it's super serious? That seems kinda hypocritical to me[/QUOTE] They laughed because she cancelled it after the cops said there were no bomb. Not before the cops did their work, but AFTER they've given the green light to continue.
[QUOTE=axelord157;47653107]Also, It's more or less of some of those shields actually being fake. Don't you find it funny that Gamergate only cared about diversity when its used to deflect criticism of them being a bunch of angry white dudes?[/QUOTE] And here's the part where you reveal yourself to be nothing but a shitposter. Sincerely, an ambiguously gay Asian guy.
[QUOTE=Diet Kane;47653116]And here's the part where you reveal yourself to be nothing but a shitposter. Sincerely, an ambiguously gay Asian guy.[/QUOTE] I don't think I'm much of a shitposter. Sincerely, a bisexual black man. I just got the "you're the real racist" card pulled on me for doubting the authenticity of some notyourshield members. Anything that involves 4chan should never be taken at face value. Always sniff around and look at conflicting viewpoints. #Killallmen should ring a ding, mate.
[QUOTE=axelord157;47652331] If GG doesn't care about Quinn, why were there chatlogs so rife with people obsessing over destroying Zoe's life?[/QUOTE] Whoa dude you should report those people to the proper channels. Mind sharing it too so we can prevent harassment?
[QUOTE=axelord157;47653181]I don't think I'm much of a shitposter. Sincerely, a bisexual black man. I just got the "you're the real racist" card pulled on me for doubting the authenticity of some notyourshield members. Anything that involves 4chan should never be taken at face value. Always sniff around and look at conflicting viewpoints. #Killallmen should ring a ding, mate.[/QUOTE] We've gone over this a million times, not your shield did not originate on 4chan. They came up with a similar idea after the fact under the same name, possibly the anon was ripping the name. Back peddling into the 4chan argument doesn't dismiss the consequences of erasing people's identities like that, neither does it excuse calling them shields.
[QUOTE=axelord157;47653181]I don't think I'm much of a shitposter. Sincerely, a bisexual black man. I just got the "you're the real racist" card pulled on me for doubting the authenticity of some notyourshield members. Anything that involves 4chan should never be taken at face value. Always sniff around and look at conflicting viewpoints. #Killallmen should ring a ding, mate.[/QUOTE] You have dismissed anyone who claims to be what they are through a hashtag. That is racist. I don't care if you're black, it doesn't make you immune to the logical fallacies you've demonstrated readily here. You've said they're all fake, you're taking their identity away and claiming you can actually know better.
[QUOTE=Tetsmega;47653221]Whoa dude you should report those people to the proper channels. Mind sharing it too so we can prevent harassment?[/QUOTE] Awful reads: [url]https://storify.com/EffNOVideoGames/stopgamergate-it-has-always-been-a-spin[/url] [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/09/08/zoe-quinns-screenshots-of-4chans-dirty-tricks-were-just-the-appetizer-heres-the-first-course-of-the-dinner-directly-from-the-irc-log/[/url]
I also love how I broke your argument down and you ignored it to rebuke the idea you're capable of racism. It says something about you. [editline]3rd May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=axelord157;47653285]Awful reads: [url]https://storify.com/EffNOVideoGames/stopgamergate-it-has-always-been-a-spin[/url] [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/09/08/zoe-quinns-screenshots-of-4chans-dirty-tricks-were-just-the-appetizer-heres-the-first-course-of-the-dinner-directly-from-the-irc-log/[/url][/QUOTE] Will you ever move past guilty by fucking association? Ever?
[QUOTE=axelord157;47653107] Also, It's more or less of some of those shields actually being fake. Don't you find it funny that Gamergate only cared about diversity when its used to deflect criticism of them being a bunch of angry white dudes?[/QUOTE] more like baseless accusations than criticism also still not sure how being "angry white dudes" suddenly renders the purpose of gg void or why it even matters your evidence has a couple examples of false accounts, dating to about 9 months ago. okay, now how about the other thousands of #notyourshield tweets. surely if such a massive operation was entirely fabricated there'd be more damning evidence than a couple of twitter accounts and a snippet of a chatlog
[QUOTE=axelord157;47653285]Awful reads: [url]https://storify.com/EffNOVideoGames/stopgamergate-it-has-always-been-a-spin[/url] [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/09/08/zoe-quinns-screenshots-of-4chans-dirty-tricks-were-just-the-appetizer-heres-the-first-course-of-the-dinner-directly-from-the-irc-log/[/url][/QUOTE] Bahaha one of your sources is a blog with excepts from 4chan posts that's golden. Remind me to print out a recipe on home made crystals from 4chan when you get the chance. Let me get some "evidence" of SJWs on tumblr while im at it.
[QUOTE=axelord157;47653181]I don't think I'm much of a shitposter. Sincerely, a bisexual black man. I just got the "you're the real racist" card pulled on me for doubting the authenticity of some notyourshield members. Anything that involves 4chan should never be taken at face value. Always sniff around and look at conflicting viewpoints. #Killallmen should ring a ding, mate.[/QUOTE] Did you seriously just go "I'm black so I can't be racist!"
[QUOTE=axelord157;47653285]Awful reads: [url]https://storify.com/EffNOVideoGames/stopgamergate-it-has-always-been-a-spin[/url] [url]http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/09/08/zoe-quinns-screenshots-of-4chans-dirty-tricks-were-just-the-appetizer-heres-the-first-course-of-the-dinner-directly-from-the-irc-log/[/url][/QUOTE] This has been covered plenty of times. First, Zoe never released the full IRC logs. Lots of outlets covered this particular event, to my knowledge only the [URL="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/137293-Exclusive-Zoe-Quinn-Posts-Chat-Logs-Debunking-GamerGate-4Chan-and-Quinn-Respond"]Escapist[/URL] bothered to host the full logs of both the [URL="http://archive.is/Ler4O"]IRC[/URL] chatroom and the [URL="https://archive.moe/v/thread/261343810/#261347271"]/v/[/URL] thread. Actually read the source material. 15 minutes after the post was made on /v/ the first tweet with #NotYourShield showed up. People in the thread aren't talking about making sock accounts. They're specifically looking for a way for minorities to self organize after having their identities robbed from them by the media.
[QUOTE=CrucialSeBBi;47653102]People laughed when the college Sarkeesian was supposed to speak on got threats by some neckbeard over phone, but when another neckbeard threathens to bomb a GG meet up (over Twitter lmao) it's super serious? That seems kinda hypocritical to me[/QUOTE] Because the threats were deemed noncredible by the Univeristy, the State, and the FBI. And then she cancelled because the university would not bar the students from conceal carrying, a state law.
Gamergate is Hamas and Anti-Gamergate is the Taliban I can't stand either of them at this point and I want them both to run each other into the ground
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;47653582]Gamergate is Hamas and Anti-Gamergate is the Taliban I can't stand either of them at this point and I want them both to run each other into the ground[/QUOTE] you're no better
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;47644663]Gamergaters are the ones who pretend SJWs exist.[/QUOTE] I know this is an old post, but people call themselves SJW. As in, for social justice, etc. [t]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDvegwhUEAAErRB.png:large[/t] So people who DO INDEED EXIST can identify themselves/others as "SJW" but the moment someone [i]calls them[/i] an SJW in a negative manner, they "don't exist?" Sure thing buddy.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;47653582]Gamergate is Hamas and Anti-Gamergate is the Taliban I can't stand either of them at this point and I want them both to run each other into the ground[/QUOTE] And then there is this guy.
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