• Biggest Tube strike in 10 years next week
    224 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Bengley;48114705]If 98% of a company's workforce is unhappy with changes the company are bringing in, why are you lot getting pissed off with the workers? Perhaps if the company listened to its staff in the first place there'd be no need to strike, then everyone's happy.[/QUOTE] Because a company should have the right to fire all of you and find people who will be happy with what the company is giving them. If the company is in the wrong then it will fail like it should. Instead you are literally blackmailing them and are protected by the government. Nothing about what you are doing is brave or admirable at all.
[QUOTE=Teddypimm;48114741]To put that into context, how many hours might you have to do if the proposed changes went through?[/QUOTE] No change to hours but less annual leave and more single days off instead of two days off in a row. [editline]3rd July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=X12321;48114750]Because a company should have the right to fire all of you and find people who will be happy with what the company is giving them. If the company is in the wrong then it will fail like it should. Instead you are literally blackmailing them and are protected by the government. Nothing about what you are doing is brave or admirable at all.[/QUOTE] We work for the government. We are government employees. It's the government who are screwing us over. [editline]3rd July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Jackald;48114745]Well maybe if the trains were more reliable and didn't go on fucking strike all the time, people might be more inclined to buy long-term travel plans.[/QUOTE] We haven't gone on strike for over a year. For one day. We run 364 days a year, national rail run 363 days a year. So we ran the same number of days as the national rail network.
[QUOTE=Jackald;48114792]No, but you've threatened strikes twice over the last 2 months, causing cancellations and delays, both of which have affected me personally, all whilst working fewer hours for better pay than me, so you get no sympathy from me.[/QUOTE] We haven't threatened strikes twice over the last 2 months. I think you're confusing London Underground with another company.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48114670]£30,079 for 37.5 hours a week.[/QUOTE] no way would I be striking, that's pretty great pay.
[QUOTE=massaki;48114812]no way would I be striking, that's pretty great pay.[/QUOTE] It's not all about pay. The argument about pay is mainly that we're being asked to work nights on top of all our other shifts for absolutely no additional pay. There wouldn't have been a strike if it was just about pay, trust me. This is about a huge restructuring of the company which is causing worse conditions for staff and passengers.
[QUOTE=massaki;48114812]no way would I be striking, that's pretty great pay.[/QUOTE] No, he deserves more, he went through a whole month of training to master his trade.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;48114698]Isn't dumb shit like this why they're moving to automate the trains? If so they better do it quick.[/QUOTE] No, that's because the trains can run closer together at more regular intervals with computer controlled signalling systems. Trains will still have staff on board and they will still be able to strike and the end result will be the same - no trains.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48114830]It's not all about pay. The argument about pay is mainly that we're being asked to work nights on top of all our other shifts for absolutely no additional pay. There wouldn't have been a strike if it was just about pay, trust me. This is about a huge restructuring of the company which is causing worse conditions for staff and passengers.[/QUOTE] So where are all the petitions from the passengers demanding better conditions?
[QUOTE=X12321;48114868]So where are all the petitions from the passengers demanding better conditions?[/QUOTE] The Tube is undergoing a multi-billion pound upgrade and journey times are decreasing, as well as air conditioned trains being introduced with more trains running all day, as well as 24 hour services from later this year. Everything is constantly improving for the passengers, apart from the closure of ticket offices and fewer staff on stations to assist them.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48114705]If 98% of a company's workforce is unhappy with changes the company are bringing in, why are you lot getting pissed off with the workers? Perhaps if the company listened to its staff in the first place there'd be no need to strike, then everyone's happy.[/QUOTE] I honestly don't know why you expected sympathy. Whether or not they're for a good reason, tube strikes cause huge disruptions to people's lives, which is going to generate resentment. Also, unions aren't exactly viewed all that favourably these days, and TfL has quite a few of them.
[QUOTE=Wiggles;48114943]I honestly don't know why you expected sympathy. Whether or not they're for a good reason, tube strikes cause huge disruptions to people's lives, which is going to generate resentment. Also, unions aren't exactly viewed all that favourably these days, and TfL has quite a few of them.[/QUOTE] It causes disruption to people's day. Not their life. They'll have forgotten about it by the next day and everything will be normal again.
You guys striking will only make the overtaking of jobs by machines come faster, it happens, eventually pushing people will only ever make them look for a better alternative. And that's you out of a job COMPLETELY then.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48114950]It causes disruption to people's day. Not their life. They'll have forgotten about it by the next day and everything will be normal again.[/QUOTE] I disagree. Late/missing workers results in lost business; being late to/missing appointments can impact people's health and well-being. It's easy to understate how powerful even minor disruption can be over a large scale.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48114705]If 98% of a company's workforce is unhappy with changes the company are bringing in, why are you lot getting pissed off with the workers? Perhaps if the company listened to its staff in the first place there'd be no need to strike, then everyone's happy.[/QUOTE] youre just mad that youre getting replaced with robots because your work is trash lol
[QUOTE=jonu67;48114975]You guys striking will only make the overtaking of jobs by machines come faster, it happens, eventually pushing people will only ever make them look for a better alternative. And that's you out of a job COMPLETELY then.[/QUOTE] Station staff can't really be replaced by machines. Ticket machines taking over ticket office staff is of course possible, but that's already happening. They can't replace staff on the gateline assisting customers with their tickets and they can't give face to face service to people (which is what most people want)
[QUOTE=Bengley;48114705]Perhaps if the company listened to its staff in the first place there'd be no need to strike, then everyone's happy.[/QUOTE] Are you for real? No union is EVER satisfied. If it's not one thing, it's something else. You give them something, and within a year it's more, more, MOAR. Stunts like this are why I absolutely despise unions. Bunch of entitled cunts.
[quote] £30,079 for 37.5 hours a week.[/quote] Okay, i'm sorry, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG THEN? There's 168 in a week, and with those hours you get only 130 for your own time. Out of that, lets see that you sleep 8 hours a day and take out additional 56 hours off your week = thats 74 hours of leisure time. You basically get fucking 2,500 quid for a month, which is around 625 quid a week, [b]which is roughly 16.666 quid PER HOUR[/b], [i][b]without needing qualifications[/b][/i] and you still fucking complain? My girlfriend roughly will earn 1300 while working in an elderly care service, and she requires extensive training to even get there. I was first semi-supporting your protest, but since you've laid out all your cards, your protest and everyone who thinks its a good idea can fuck right off. Sorry for harsh words, but I'm really mad that such "entitlement" exists.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48114830]It's not all about pay. The argument about pay is mainly that we're being asked to work nights on top of all our other shifts for absolutely no additional pay. There wouldn't have been a strike if it was just about pay, trust me. This is about a huge restructuring of the company which is causing worse conditions for staff and passengers.[/QUOTE] Are you salaried or hourly? Are you getting paid for the hours you work? Or are you arguing that you should get paid more because you're working nights a bit more than you used to? Funny how Truck drivers put up with shittier hours and less sociable hours and manage just fine. [quote]It causes disruption to people's day. Not their life. They'll have forgotten about it by the next day and everything will be normal again. [/quote] Peoples day can be their life, afterall, you're striking because your day/life will be disrupted by more night shift. There's plenty of people who work in just as bad situations, if not worse than Tube staff, yet they don't strike.
"why are you workers complaining about your pay and conditions; be thankful you even have a job and stop disrupting people who make more money than you's days just so you can have some semblance of dignity" You people accusing unionists of being entitled are absolute fucking scum. If anything you, acting as it is entitled to someone preforming a service for you without any self-preservation or dignity, are the entitled ones. Insisting that people accept their lots, their pay, and their status so you can continue to enjoy a higher quality of life at their expense. Just because you are dickless cowards without the brains or the soul to stand up for yourself and others like you doesn't mean that you can call others with with more bravery and dignity than you entitled.
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;48115145]Okay, i'm sorry, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG THEN? There's 168 in a week, and with those hours you get only 130 for your own time. Out of that, lets see that you sleep 8 hours a day and take out additional 56 hours off your week = thats 74 hours of leisure time. You basically get fucking 2,500 quid for a month, which is around 625 quid a week, [b]which is roughly 16.666 quid PER HOUR[/b], [i][b]without needing qualifications[/b][/i] and you still fucking complain? My girlfriend roughly will earn 1300 while working in an elderly care service, and she requires extensive training to even get there. I was first semi-supporting your protest, but since you've laid out all your cards, your protest and everyone who thinks its a good idea can fuck right off. Sorry for harsh words, but I'm really mad that such "entitlement" exists.[/QUOTE] i earn minimum wage breaking my back in the cleaning business and by cleaning business i mean i make beds all day
[QUOTE=DanRatherman;48115156]"why are you workers complaining about your pay and conditions; be thankful you even have a job and stop disrupting people who make more money than you's days just so you can have some semblance of dignity"[/QUOTE] Yeah because the only people who use the tube ever are mega rich people right? I'm certain that a decent amount of people who use the tube are in just as bad, if not worse straits than tube staff. Keep in mind, Tube strikes often affect [I]millions[/I] of people who use the tube. Sorry, but as someone who has worked in an industry where long, unsociable hours are the norm (55-77 hours per week), often well below the average yearly wage (approx £18-26k), I find not too much sympathy with people who knowingly disrupt millions of people, just because they have to work different hours/more night shifts.
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;48115191]Yeah because the only people who use the tube ever are mega rich people right? I'm certain that a decent amount of people who use the tube are in just as bad, if not worse straits than tube staff. Keep in mind, Tube strikes often affect [I]millions[/I] of people who use the tube. Sorry, but as someone who has worked in an industry where long, unsociable hours are the norm (55-77 hours per week), often well below the average yearly wage (approx £18-26k), I find not too much sympathy with people who knowingly disrupt millions of people, just because they have to work different hours/more night shifts.[/QUOTE] Then if your working conditions are less than desirable, maybe you should show solidarity with other strikers and try to improve your own lot as well?
[QUOTE=DanRatherman;48115332]Then if your working conditions are less than desirable, maybe you should show solidarity with other strikers and try to improve your own lot as well?[/QUOTE] Because we didn't strike? Because we accepted that it's part and nature of the job.
[QUOTE=DanRatherman;48115332]Then if your working conditions are less than desirable, maybe you should show solidarity with other strikers and try to improve your own lot as well?[/QUOTE] Yeah okay, while we're at it lets start a revolution. I don't like tube workers holding me hostage, then using that to press the government with. If it was put to a public vote I would gladly approve the underground becoming a essential service. The Conservatives said last year they would propose such a thing, and I have a feeling this strike will lead to it being voted in.
Accepting your conditions as if they are permanent and unchangeable is the first step to proving that assessment true. Solidarity with strikes can only benefit the dignity of all workers in the long run, if they are done with the intent to empower all workers. Acting like they are antagonists to you for standing up for themselves, and sympathizing with their employers, or a vague sense of 'public' other than them is to imply they aren't part of that public body as well, and that yours and others right to their labours are more important than their quality of life. Even if you are another blue-collar worker, if you see them as only a commodity to be controlled and not others of your own sort, then you are part of the problem and the reason strikes are needed. [editline]3rd July 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Vasili;48115460]Yeah okay, while we're at it lets start a revolution. [/QUOTE] You show yourself as a reactionary a little too readily.
I make less than this guy and I work in central London - I have no problem paying rent and I still put away loads of dosh each month. I mean, it's cool that you've been handed an opportunity to complain for more cash but I wouldn't really act entitled to it, especially since you're in unskilled work? For clarification, I'm typically in support of strikes and of unions, but I'm not sure I support this one.
[QUOTE=Mesothere;48115639]I make less than this guy and I work in central London - I have no problem paying rent and I still put away loads of dosh each month. I mean, it's cool that you've been handed an opportunity to complain for more cash but I wouldn't really act entitled to it, especially since you're in unskilled work? For clarification, I'm typically in support of strikes and of unions, but I'm not sure I support this one.[/QUOTE] For comparrison NHS pay band 5 starts at £21k or so, band 6 starts at £26k. Factor in the full inner London supplement of about £6k if they get it and you have a new healthcare professional starting at £27k. That is something like a radiographer, radiotherapist, physiotherapist or nurse. Yes they could potentially earn more than £30k, but it would take a fairly substantial amount of time and typically requires additional training, for example being trained in a modality, specialist area or similar. These are minimum 3 year university courses, and radiographers and nurses work nights and 40 hour weeks too. Man, in terms of pay it is fantastically compensated for work that does not require a degree, let alone a specialist one. I won't talk about working conditions as I do not know them, but just looking at the money, it is great.
Currently tube drivers earn about twice as much as junior doctors and tbh I think they're taking the fucking piss
Fuck, with all these poorly formed arguments against unions I feel like I must have wandered into some reactionary hell. You all really have a problem with some people trying to improve their lives? Shit, sure other jobs are payed less that these workers, but that is why they too need to organize to get the pay they deserve. Don't act like these workers are just greedy because other workers have less of a defense against their exploitation, that's just absurd. These anti-union attitudes won't do shit to benefit you, and in reality only guarantee you'll get fucked over and won't be able to react. If am the workers in history thought like the backwards people in this thread, we'd still see the shit conditions of the 1800s persist, cause the bosses wouldn't have just hand out those raises, better hours, and safety conditions then, and they won't now.
WAHH I MAKE MORE MONEY THAN MOST OTHER UNSKILLED JOBS BUT I STILL WANT MORE MONEY. Fuck that. Automate these trains so people can get on with their lives without it being delayed.
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