[QUOTE=Vasili;48115460]Yeah okay, while we're at it lets start a revolution.
[/QUOTE]
I know it sounds bonkers, but there's a lot of middleground between showing solidarity/impartiality for workers rights, and overthrowing the government.
[QUOTE=Octavius;48116136]Fuck, with all these poorly formed arguments against unions I feel like I must have wandered into some reactionary hell. You all really have a problem with some people trying to improve their lives? Shit, sure other jobs are payed less that these workers, but that is why they too need to organize to get the pay they deserve. Don't act like these workers are just greedy because other workers have less of a defense against their exploitation, that's just absurd. These anti-union attitudes won't do shit to benefit you, and in reality only guarantee you'll get fucked over and won't be able to react. If am the workers in history thought like the backwards people in this thread, we'd still see the shit conditions of the 1800s persist, cause the bosses wouldn't have just hand out those raises, better hours, and safety conditions then, and they won't now.[/QUOTE]
Iunno, 30 grand for 37.5 hours a week to drive a train around sounds pretty fucking good
[QUOTE=wraithcat;48114612]And you know be stuck in traffic for two hours, because you can't use the generally fastest way to move around in a city?[/QUOTE]
Much as I'd love to stare at the Sears Tower for probably 1 1/2 hours, try this shit with the CTA Elevated trains, and I could guarantee we'd burn down before it's tea time over there.
[editline]3rd July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bengley;48114670]£30,079 for 37.5 hours a week.
[/QUOTE]
Holy fuck that's fucking $19317.33
That's almost fucking $20k!
Can I fucking have your job? Not even joking, can I please just have your job, that sounds like the money that could support some form of living in London, or anywhere the tube operates for that matter :v:
If I could get that job without any form of Degree, I could legit pay for College while living at home!
And you say that that's what Staff get paid, and the Drivers get more than that?!?!
How fucking much to they get paid, $50k?!
[QUOTE=Bengley;48114755]No change to hours but less annual leave and more single days off instead of two days off in a row.
[editline]3rd July 2015[/editline]
We work for the government. We are government employees. It's the government who are screwing us over.
[editline]3rd July 2015[/editline]
We haven't gone on strike for over a year. For one day.
We run 364 days a year, national rail run 363 days a year. So we ran the same number of days as the national rail network.[/QUOTE]
Honestly I'm one of the people who believes that tubes should be designated as an essential service, similar to the police, doctors or multiple other professions which cannot strike.
The reason is that in modern cities the metro system is in many ways absolutely crucial and the rest of public overland transport just can't take on all those extra people. Since the metro systems generally carries more people at any moment than the rest of public transport put together.
And yes people are pissed due to multiple things - starting with the fact you have a shorter work week (by at least 2.5 hours) and get payed over average. That's not even talking about the drivers who get even more.
[QUOTE=Octavius;48116136]Fuck, with all these poorly formed arguments against unions I feel like I must have wandered into some reactionary hell. You all really have a problem with some people trying to improve their lives? Shit, sure other jobs are payed less that these workers, but that is why they too need to organize to get the pay they deserve. Don't act like these workers are just greedy because other workers have less of a defense against their exploitation, that's just absurd. These anti-union attitudes won't do shit to benefit you, and in reality only guarantee you'll get fucked over and won't be able to react. If am the workers in history thought like the backwards people in this thread, we'd still see the shit conditions of the 1800s persist, cause the bosses wouldn't have just hand out those raises, better hours, and safety conditions then, and they won't now.[/QUOTE]
People are generally pissed off at any strikes that happen in public transport. Because the impact on their lives can be brutal. Yes people often salute unions, but it depends on the union, the profession and the reason for the strike
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48116798]Holy fuck that's fucking $19317.33[/QUOTE]
Actually £30,000 in USD comes to $46,713 dollarydoos
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;48116871]Actually £30,000 in USD comes to $46,713 dollarydoos[/QUOTE]
Why the fuck is Bentley complaining about this? I'd fucking swim across the Atlantic for a job like that. :v:
And if that's what the STAFF get paid, how much is the pay for the folks that drive the fucking train?!
[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;48116911]Why the fuck is Bentley complaining about this? I'd fucking swim across the Atlantic for a job like that. :v:
And if that's what the STAFF get paid, how much is the pay for the folks that drive the fucking train?![/QUOTE]
Roughly 78k USD apparently. Not sure if before or after taxes though. Throw in a bunch of other benefits though, like cheaper (maybe no cost) transit fares etc.
EDIT
and a 35 hour week.
I earn £14,500 a year for working for a supermarket, and me and the people on my department (all are on the same pay) are legally responsible for pricing across the store, counting the store's takings and making sure it balances at the end of the week, loading and unloading lorries, making sure all the equipment in the store is working correctly and the joy of training people to use dangerous equipment. On top of dealing with customers. Sounds like you have a good deal.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;48116933]Roughly 78k USD apparently. Not sure if before or after taxes though. Throw in a bunch of other benefits though, like cheaper (maybe no cost) transit fares etc.
EDIT
and a 35 hour week.[/QUOTE]
Seriously if I had a job like that I wouldn't even dream of striking. I'd fucking bow down every time a government official walked near me for giving me this glorious job for incredible pay. Like what the hell is wrong with you people?
[QUOTE=Trekintosh;48116999]Seriously if I had a job like that I wouldn't even dream of striking. I'd fucking bow down every time a government official walked near me for giving me this glorious job for incredible pay. Like what the hell is wrong with you people?[/QUOTE]
2 things are wrong with them:
1) Unions contracts combined with a liberal government that make it hard and/or illegal for companies, or government organizations, to act against striking employees mean that there aren't any real negative consequences.
2) Unions have a bad habit of only looking at the immediate consequences, of which there aren't any. What they don't do is look at how the more pay they demand the more they ensure that automation will quickly take all the jobs away. The same thing happened with auto manufacturers in the US. The unions demanded massive pay (even now, people on old union contracts make ~$28/h, ~$58,000 per year, to drive forklifts for companies like Chrysler) and now they are attempting to automate and/or outsource to non-union third parties.
£30,000 is just shy of 60k CAD. I, and I'm sure most sane people, would kill for a job like that especially since it doesn't require any qualifications. You'd be insane here to complain about a wage like just because the hours don't cater to your every whim.
[QUOTE=Camundongo;48116979]I earn £14,500 a year for working for a supermarket, and me and the people on my department (all are on the same pay) are legally responsible for pricing across the store, counting the store's takings and making sure it balances at the end of the week, loading and unloading lorries, making sure all the equipment in the store is working correctly and the joy of training people to use dangerous equipment. On top of dealing with customers. Sounds like you have a good deal.[/QUOTE]
And that's a shit wage and something you and others ought to fight to increase, not just complain about those who have the power to increase their own shit wages or conditions through industrial action and do so. (Not saying you specifically are complaining, that's just a message to everyone comparing their wages and hours to justify complaining about the strike action)
And overall yes, it's an inconvenience, but that's the point of it in general. One day of using other transportation really isn't terrible compared to workers possibly not getting fucked over. Don't like it? Don't blame the workers, because striking isn't their go to option and I'm sure none are happy to inconvenience people, the employer is the one who has pushed them to this. So yeah, they may have good jobs, but why prevent them from getting what they really deserve just because you get less or it inconveniences you temporarily? Why not instead support them and go fight for what you really deserve also? Cause I'm sure it's more than what you're getting.
[QUOTE=Reagy;48114683]That's pretty decent...[/QUOTE]
Isn't the average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment like £1600 a month in london? That's insane.
[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;48117840]Isn't the average rent for a 1 bedroom apartment like £1600 a month in london? That's insane.[/QUOTE]
Something like that. It's a good wage if you don't live in London, otherwise it's not THAT good.
Is your excuse for striking that you don't have a social life?
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;48115145]Okay, i'm sorry, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG THEN?
There's 168 in a week, and with those hours you get only 130 for your own time. Out of that, lets see that you sleep 8 hours a day and take out additional 56 hours off your week = thats 74 hours of leisure time.
You basically get fucking 2,500 quid for a month, which is around 625 quid a week, [b]which is roughly 16.666 quid PER HOUR[/b], [i][b]without needing qualifications[/b][/i] and you still fucking complain?
My girlfriend roughly will earn 1300 while working in an elderly care service, and she requires extensive training to even get there.
I was first semi-supporting your protest, but since you've laid out all your cards, your protest and everyone who thinks its a good idea can fuck right off.
Sorry for harsh words, but I'm really mad that such "entitlement" exists.[/QUOTE]
Plus 2 hours travelling time each way to get to work.
I have to go against you on this. You're not a skilled professional, haven't worked for very long in the industry and you're making $62,141 converted to Aus dollars. I'm a skilled professional which went to uni and got a pretty good grad job after and I'm making around $65,000 per year. Most grads make under this, especially when you consider other professions such as nursing who have to work night shift and weekends, and nurses are skilled professionals.
I also live in a very expensive city (Perth).
Maybe my perspective is off, but it seems like your salary is better than fine.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48118096]Plus 2 hours travelling time each way to get to work.[/QUOTE]
I already said I'd swim the entire Atlantic to get your job.
I don't see any trouble with driving/walking/biking/whatever two hours to earn almost $50k.
Automate the train system, fire anyone whose job can be replaced by a robot.
If that leaves you jobless, tough luck. Maybe you should have acquired some skills that would allow you to remain employed.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48118096]Plus 2 hours travelling time each way to get to work.[/QUOTE]
Okay after reading this, it just sounds like you're complaining. How are your employers supposed to fix this? Rent a place closer to work or get a job closer to work if you're unhappy with travel time.
[QUOTE=Badballer;48118134]Okay after reading this, it just sounds like you're complaining. How are your employers supposed to fix this? Rent a place closer to work or get a job closer to work if you're unhappy with travel time.[/QUOTE]
The person was trying to calculate his leisure time. Transit time matters in that if you want to be accurate when calculating it. So he doesn't really seem to be just complaining there.
[QUOTE=Badballer;48118134]Okay after reading this, it just sounds like you're complaining. How are your employers supposed to fix this? Rent a place closer to work or get a job closer to work if you're unhappy with travel time.[/QUOTE]
No, I'm not complaining. Raven was telling me how many hours spare time I get each week. He didn't factor in the 4 hours travelling a day.
[QUOTE=Octavius;48118143]The person was trying to calculate his leisure time. Transit time matters in that if you want to be accurate when calculating it. So he doesn't really seem to be just complaining there.[/QUOTE]
My bad.
But still, same point applies. The only way to not travel 2 hours to work each day is to live closer, have a closer job, or not get a job so far away in the first place.
[editline]4th July 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bengley;48118146]No, I'm not complaining. Raven was telling me how many hours spare time I get each week. He didn't factor in the 4 hours travelling a day.[/QUOTE]
That's insane. I have to ask, why do you work so far away from your home?
[QUOTE=Badballer;48118155]My bad.
But still, same point applies. The only way to not travel 2 hours to work each day is to live closer, have a closer job, or not get a job so far away in the first place.
[editline]4th July 2015[/editline]
That's insane. I have to ask, why do you work so far away from your home?[/QUOTE]
Because I want to be a train driver, I've wanted to do it all my life. The only way of getting to that stage is by working my way up through the grades, which is what I'm doing. It just so happens that a decent opportunity to get my foot in the door arose at London Underground, so I decided travelling 4 hours and paying £4432 a year for my season ticket to get to work was the best option to help me reach my career goal.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48118096]Plus 2 hours travelling time each way to get to work.[/QUOTE]
If we factor additional 4 hours per day, then you are basically on the term of a highscooler in terms of time (having 7-8 lessons a day in high school is common in Estonia. Should I also bring up the point that its your own fault that you choose a workplace 2 hours off your home? I just cant imagine getting a job half across the country then complain to higher ups that I have to waste 6 hours every day travelling to and from work
[QUOTE=Bengley;48118184]Because I want to be a train driver, I've wanted to do it all my life. The only way of getting to that stage is by working my way up through the grades, which is what I'm doing. It just so happens that a decent opportunity to get my foot in the door arose at London Underground, so I decided travelling 4 hours and paying £4432 a year for my season ticket to get to work was the best option to help me reach my career goal.[/QUOTE]
Well in that case I wish you all the best.
But seriously though, as soon as your lease is up, try to rent somewhere much closer.
[editline]4th July 2015[/editline]
And that is a fucking lot for public transport holy shit. Even if renting closer costs a bit more, I'm sure it would be subsidized by the reduced cost of transport
[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;48118258]If we factor additional 4 hours per day, then you are basically on the term of a highscooler in terms of time (having 7-8 lessons a day in high school is common in Estonia. Should I also bring up the point that its your own fault that you choose a workplace 2 hours off your home? I just cant imagine getting a job half across the country then complain to higher ups that I have to waste 6 hours every day travelling to and from work[/QUOTE]
I'm not complaining. The reason I got a job in London (as a fair few people from my area have) is because there is no decent work in my local area.
I'm looking forward to the automation of the underground. It sounds mean but I'd prefer a few thousand people in tfl lose their jobs than the hundreds of thousands who cannot afford to get to their job/being driven to poverty because of rising ticket prices. It's clear that they won't be giving you any pay rises from their profit and will increase ticket prices even more. I think it stands at £8,000 for me to get a yearly pass to London which is nearly half my pay heck after tax. Mind you I live 20 miles from Waterloo and think that's a joke.
[QUOTE=Gareth;48118328]I'm looking forward to the automation of the underground. It sounds mean but I'd prefer a few thousand people in tfl lose their jobs than the hundreds of thousands who cannot afford to get to their job/being driven to poverty because of rising ticket prices. It's clear that they won't be giving you any pay rises from their profit and will increase ticket prices even more. I think it stands at £8,000 for me to get a yearly pass to London which is nearly half my pay heck after tax. Mind you I live 20 miles from Waterloo and think that's a joke.[/QUOTE]
Nowhere within 20 miles of London pays that much for an annual season. Mine is £4432 and I live 70 miles from Victoria
You one of them over paid fuckers that sit on the platform indicating when a train is arriving / leaving? Can't wait for transmission based signalling to really kick off and replace the traditional systems then we'll see a nice slash in the amount of staff required for train operation.
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