[QUOTE=Bengley;48121880]if you'd read the thread you'd have seen that I'm not a driver.
you'd also have seen that I, along with thousands of colleagues, disagree with the proposed changes (night running) that this will bring to my role.[/QUOTE]
Yeah and people are miffed at this as well. Even if you're not a driver a lot of these things applies to you as well.
[QUOTE=Roll_Program;48121717]If I was being paid over £30k I'd be more than happy to find a way to make rough schedules work.
People work night shifts in harder jobs for half that pay.[/QUOTE]
In how many of those jobs are workers sometimes tasked with:
Walking hundreds of metres up a tunnel to find missing body parts after a fatality?
[URL="http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/tube-attack-lancaster-gate-closed-after-staff-member-stabbed-in-the-face-9998250.html"]Being stabbed in the face?[/URL]
Helping to evacuate hundreds of severely injured people after a terrorist attack?
Enforcing byelaws against sometimes hostile and agressive passengers?
Reuniting lost children with their parents?
Giving first aid to injured passengers?
Breaking up fights?
Preventing fare evasion by people who can sometimes physically assault you for doing so?
Spotting and talking down suicidal passengers who might be about to jump in front of a train?
We do a bloody good job, you might not think so, but you don't know.
And if you think we get paid too much, you probably don't want to look at top level management's salaries (funded by your tax money)
[url]http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/olympic-success-earns-tfl-chief-sir-peter-hendy-650000-as-bonuses-are-paid-8674433.html[/url]
Some of the good things staff have done on the tube:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/I5oVkTzh.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/ehOsc2Vh.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/sPBpWQUh.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/M9ki4i0h.jpg[/img]
Please tell me what you think would have happened here without staff?
Also what would the public be saying had there been no staff to assist? I'm sure they wouldn't have wished for all the staff to be sacked and replaced by machines!
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48122034]Feel free to list how many times you personally have done any of those things[/QUOTE]
irrelevant. i'm a part of a union - a collection of staff who do amazing things on a daily basis all over the network.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48122038]irrelevant. i'm a part of a union - a collection of staff who do amazing things on a daily basis all over the network.[/QUOTE]
Your incessant whining about your relatively easy, well paid job is doing nothing but causing more friction between the public and the striking workers. You have a job and responsibilities, like the rest of the population, now stop fucking whining about it - you're not a slave.
[QUOTE=Noss;48122055]Your incessant whining about your relatively easy, well paid job is doing nothing but causing more friction between the public and the striking workers. You have a job and responsibilities, like the rest of the population, now stop fucking whining about it - you're not a slave.[/QUOTE]
I haven't whined about anything at all.
I'm coming up with arguments to counter all the pretty vile comments made towards me in this thread. It's hugely insulting to be told things about my job which people don't even know anything about.
Your average passenger doesn't see anything out of the ordinary on their daily commute, but when something does happen, suddenly staff are much more useful and everyone wants them to be there, so please stop being arseholes and slating thousands of workers just because YOU don't think they do a hard enough job to earn a salary which just about pays the rent on a London flat.
How about striking about the very high cost of transport in London.
Basically any job where you work with the public or in public could have any of those things you listed happen, and have night shifts as well, the tube was a rare job because workers didn't have to work nights.
[QUOTE=Roll_Program;48122109]How about striking about the very high cost of transport in London.[/QUOTE]
I would if a ballot was proposed. The price of the underground is extortionate.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48122143]If you don't like it then use your free time to get some education or qualifications and get a better job. But you've already stated that you want to drive a train so I don't understand what your problem is.
You complained about your commute but that was your own decision because you thought your employer offered the best opportunities. I'm not going to even address everything else because someone else already has. Stop playing the victim here, you'd be just fine without this strike (if it's even successful).[/QUOTE]
I didn't complain about my commute at all. Someone made a calculation of how much free time I get and forgot to include my commute. I don't care about the commute.
Why should I have to get a better job? I like the industry I work in.
What if I did get some qualifications and got a job in a better industry, then suddenly the company I work for decided to make changes which would have negative effects on me? Would you tell me to get a different qualification and get another new job? Because that's bollocks.
And just to clarify - train drivers undergo 12-14 months of training before being able to drive on their own, so they're hardly just walking into the job unqualified.
tbh when I go to London the tube station is probably the worst part of the day because the staff are all miserable cunts who obviously don't want to speak to you
(no offense bengley)
I'd happily work for £30k to be a cunt to everyone
[QUOTE=Lord Xenoyia;48122238]tbh when I go to London the tube station is probably the worst part of the day because the staff are all miserable cunts who obviously don't want to speak to you
(no offense bengley)
I'd happily work for £30k to be a cunt to everyone[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty friendly to most people and I make funny PAs on the platforms which cheer people up and make them giggle. I also do this kind of thing sometimes:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mHbgZoh.jpg[/IMG]
You guessed it, I didn't go to art school.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48122279]I'm pretty friendly to most people and I make funny PAs on the platforms which cheer people up and make them giggle. I also do this kind of thing sometimes:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/mHbgZoh.jpg[/IMG]
You guessed it, I didn't go to art school.[/QUOTE]
yeah I'm just going on my personal experience on the underground, not saying you're a cunt haha
[QUOTE=The golden;48122309]In pretty much every other place I can think of, these things are handled by the police or specific departments of law enforcement (Here it is handled by Transit Police).
If there is anything you should be striking over it is that. You shouldn't be doing those things. That is all things which are normally handled by law and medical professionals. That's a reason to strike, not crappy hours which your pay more than compensates you for.[/QUOTE]
The police used to deal with most things, but sadly because they have been cut to the bone by the government there are fewer of them to help with everyday things, so LU staff have to get involved a lot more.
[QUOTE=FinalHunter;48122143]If you don't like it then use your free time to get some education or qualifications and get a better job. But you've already stated that you want to drive a train so I don't understand what your problem is.
You complained about your commute but that was your own decision because you thought your employer offered the best opportunities. I'm not going to even address everything else because someone else already has. Stop playing the victim here, you'd be just fine without this strike (if it's even successful).[/QUOTE]
you know some of them like their job but dislike the direction the management is going? stuff like "just get another job" just sounds really immature
I feel for you guys suddenly being forced to work night shifts for no extra pay.
Night buses are horrible enough, I cant imagine what night tubes are gonna be like.
Personally I dont think Ill use them and stick with Uber/Taxis.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48121498]I'm not sure, I haven't had a chance to look at the proposed Roster for my main station, but for one of the other stations in my group the staff would be expected to work 7 nights in a row every 5 weeks, compared to the current 0.[/QUOTE]
Wait, am I reading this right? You're striking over a proposition that you [i]haven't looked at??[/i]
[QUOTE=Bengley;48122038]irrelevant. i'm a part of a union - a collection of staff who do amazing things on a daily basis all over the network.[/QUOTE]
You're not being truly specific about the amazing things you do that are worth more money than any fresh out of High School American can ever dream for aside from, sitting your ass on a chair while trains travel up and down the lines and maybe having to call the police if some drunk is causing a ruck ass.
-snip-
[QUOTE=elfbarf;48114398]So basically you're striking and demanding better pay just because you have the ability to? Not because you actually deserve it? This is precisely why an increasing number of people are against unions.[/QUOTE]
Actually they do deserve it because without them there would never be a metro. Who built the trains? Workers! Who drives the trains? Workers! Who takes the tickets? Workers!
They only make, function, and provide absolutely everything involved in the entire process, but they don't deserve to be paid fairly from it apparently.
That's the point of a strike. Don't want to fork over what they do deserve? Then they don't fork over their value which makes the entire operation happen.
Bengley you and your fellows have solidarity from me and my union. Don't know if it's ongoing or over with but good luck!
[QUOTE=Bengley;48122164]I didn't complain about my commute at all. Someone made a calculation of how much free time I get and forgot to include my commute. I don't care about the commute.
[B]Why should I have to get a better job? I like the industry I work in.[/B]
What if I did get some qualifications and got a job in a better industry, then suddenly the company I work for decided to make changes which would have negative effects on me? [B]Would you tell me to get a different qualification and get another new job? Because that's bollocks.[/B]
[B]And just to clarify - train drivers undergo 12-14 months of training before being able to drive on their own, so they're hardly just walking into the job unqualified.[/B][/QUOTE]
1. That's just how the free market works. Jobs aren't a charity handed out to people who want one. If the industry you work in just so happens to go bust, or if it turns out that your job can be done by someone else for a lower price, or even be automated, then tough luck. Find another job.
2. Yes, yes I would. And if the new company screws you over, or fires you, then go find another job. If you want to stop worrying about where to find a job, then obtain some qualifications for skills that the economy needs. Go to university and get a degree, or enter a trade that provides a service to society that is irreplaceable. There is always something to do.
3. Before computers as we knew them today were invented, complex calculations were carried out by teams of human computers. These people were often highly qualified with mathematics degrees. The invention of the electronic computer largely made their jobs obsolete. See also [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1474095&p=48119323"]this thread[/URL]. Just because you are highly qualified for a certain job does not mean that said job can never be made obsolete.
I'll also like to add on to the above post, 12-14 months of training for a salary of over $100,000 Aus is pretty damn good.
[QUOTE=Android phone;48123863]Wait, am I reading this right? You're striking over a proposition that you [i]haven't looked at??[/i][/QUOTE]
I've looked at the proposed roster for one of the other stations which I work at.
My colleagues have told me about the new roster at my main station and they're all striking over it.
[QUOTE=Bengley;48124997]I've looked at the proposed roster for one of the other stations which I work at.
My colleagues have told me about the new roster at my main station and they're all striking over it.[/QUOTE]
What exactly is this roster, is it your schedule? What's a week look like for you now, and what might it look like after this change?
[QUOTE=TehWhale;48116220]WAHH I MAKE MORE MONEY THAN MOST OTHER UNSKILLED JOBS BUT I STILL WANT MORE MONEY. Fuck that. Automate these trains so people can get on with their lives without it being delayed.[/QUOTE]
I've just graduated with a First after a 4 year Masters course in Engineering at the top Uni for my degree and I'll be starting on a few thousand less at a software company. I don't feel that I'm entitled to more, because I was very fortunate with opportunities that lead to me getting a good education. Yes, I worked exceedingly hard for those 4 years to get a good result, but I feel lucky to be doing something I enjoy at the end of it. However I do feel that 30k for an unskilled job is exceedingly good and that the workers should feel lucky to have such an opportunity. £52k for a tube driver, however, is insane to me. That's ~$80k for Americans.
Though, I did study Electronics Engineering so maybe one day I'll work for a firm that ends up automating such jobs. And train driving is most certainly "automatable". :v:
[QUOTE=Trumple;48126525]I've just graduated with a First after a 4 year Masters course in Engineering at the top Uni for my degree and I'll be starting on a few thousand less at a software company.[/QUOTE]
Seriously. I've just finished a 4 year Masters of Computing (with a First hopefully!), spending my entire last year dicking around with a top-tier research facility for Bioinformatics for my last year to get good at high-performance computing. My options for jobs were £18k-£20k for entry level programming/ software engineering jobs (can't get anything higher than that from the get go at a lot of places). Or £15k for a research position at the aforementioned facility.
There are people with actual skills, time invested in studies and effort spent in ensuring we did well and we can't get jobs that pay anything near £30k upon graduating without even more effort. And this is in cities too, where the costs of living already eat into that £20k that I'm earning noticeably.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48127369]Seriously. I've just finished a 4 year Masters of Computing (with a First hopefully!), spending my entire last year dicking around with a top-tier research facility for Bioinformatics for my last year to get good at high-performance computing. My options for jobs were £18k-£20k for entry level programming/ software engineering jobs (can't get anything higher than that from the get go at a lot of places). Or £15k for a research position at the aforementioned facility.
There are people with actual skills, time invested in studies and effort spent in ensuring we did well and we can't get jobs that pay anything near £30k upon graduating without even more effort. And this is in cities too, where the costs of living already eat into that £20k that I'm earning noticeably.[/QUOTE]
I'm certain you could apply for a job working at a bank or some other such industry and earn £40k+ right off the bat, they often accept engineers/computer scientists. The trouble is, the kind of industry we actually [i]want[/i] to go into is a bit odd: it requires skilled workers yet it appears to pay an underwhelming salary, and I think that's because software is seen as "less professional" than, say, straight up electronics engineering. Probably because it's new and is tied in with a lot of informal software development jobs too. It's also of course affected by which Uni you studied at but much less so
Good luck with your results!
Guys its swings n roundabouts.
The job I think Bengley is doing and if I'm right its got a promotion to a supervisor which pays a couple of grand more but that's literally it, you've hit the earning cap. I think it's why he's using it to get into a train driving job.
The railway as a whole pays well since it was privatised when BR were around it paid fuck all with a lot of staff having to do overtime to make up for it mind you the final salary pensions were amazing.
If I knew about the railway before I went to Uni I'd have never got a white collar job within it.
[QUOTE=Trumple;48127477]I'm certain you could apply for a job working at a bank or some other such industry and earn £40k+ right off the bat, they often accept engineers/computer scientists. The trouble is, the kind of industry we actually [i]want[/i] to go into is a bit odd: it requires skilled workers yet it appears to pay an underwhelming salary, and I think that's because software is seen as "less professional" than, say, straight up electronics engineering. Probably because it's new and is tied in with a lot of informal software development jobs too. It's also of course affected by which Uni you studied at but much less so
Good luck with your results![/QUOTE]
I [I]could[/I] apply for a job at somewhere like a bank. But after interning at a big insurance firm for three months, the corporate climate really cuts in to how your develop software. As the intern I had a higher output of working software than the team I was assigned too because I was doing nothing but tool work.
It's just a shame the actually enjoyable jobs don't pay anywhere near as much from the get go. But thanks for the good luck, I'm literally just depending on passing a single exam haha.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;48127736]I [I]could[/I] apply for a job at somewhere like a bank. But after interning at a big insurance firm for three months, the corporate climate really cuts in to how your develop software. As the intern I had a higher output of working software than the team I was assigned too because I was doing nothing but tool work.
It's just a shame the actually enjoyable jobs don't pay anywhere near as much from the get go. But thanks for the good luck, I'm literally just depending on passing a single exam haha.[/QUOTE]
i started in at 18k and i'm up to 25k in a year as well as them paying for my 3 year compsci degree, for a big software development company based all over the UK, and that was with 2 years games development in college and the first year of a games dev degree before leaving because it was bad.
they hire grads at a starting wage of £30k and many get up to £40k within a couple years, and it isn't even that hard to get hired. have you looked around many big software companies?
I hate the conservatives but if the put up a referendum on classing the tube as an essential service like police and such I would actually support it.
The guys who deserve to strike are the bus drivers... The have to put up with this for the next few days and driving a car is alot more work then driving a tube...
I cant wait to see the backlash towards the union and staff in Friday
[QUOTE=Cushie;48151794]i started in at 18k and i'm up to 25k in a year as well as them paying for my 3 year compsci degree, for a big software development company based all over the UK, and that was with 2 years games development in college and the first year of a games dev degree before leaving because it was bad.
they hire grads at a starting wage of £30k and many get up to £40k within a couple years, and it isn't even that hard to get hired. have you looked around many big software companies?[/QUOTE]
I was trying to avoid leaving my current city because I quite like it here after 4 years :v: But I had a quick look around the bigger firms here (mostly that one big insurance firm and that's it to be honest) and they all seemed to suffer the same problems really. Stagnation. Even then they weren't paying mad bank because the cost of living in the city isn't as absurd as say, London.
So start-ups and smaller, more personal firms it is. I'm fairly happy with where I'm working, just a shame I might not see a big increase in pay for a few years as they expand.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.