Dutch court outlaws pedophile association Martijn, says it breaches country’s moral values
134 replies, posted
[QUOTE=parket;36565023]i know that having the former greatly increases the chance of the latter, and that everyone who labels themselves as the former should get help asap (i know a few people like Sgt-NiallR are very emotional but if you're experiencing these urges (Sgt-NiallR) please get help)[/QUOTE]
And what help should he get? This is the same thing as homosexuality except instead of liking the same sex you like children, just because you are a pedophile doesn't mean you have sex with children.
[QUOTE=parket;36565023]i know that having the former greatly increases the chance of the latter, and that everyone who labels themselves as the former should get help asap (i know a few people like Sgt-NiallR are very emotional but if you're experiencing these urges (Sgt-NiallR) please get help)[/QUOTE]
if you recognize the distinction then why did you post this "these people fuck children and they need help suppressing it."
also, you talk about it being a sickness like some people talk about gayness being a sickness that can be "cured"
is there some process that I'm unaware of that removes these urges from pedophiles?
[QUOTE=parket;36565023]i know that having the former greatly increases the chance of the latter, and that everyone who labels themselves as the former should get help asap (i know a few people like Sgt-NiallR are very emotional but if you're experiencing these urges (Sgt-NiallR) please get help)[/QUOTE]
Are you serious? I'm not a paedophile. I just find it incredible how people can root for the gay rights movement on the basis that they cannot choose to be gay or not, and will then crucify someone who's sexuality doesn't align with what they see as okay.
Let me fetch my post from earlier:
[B][I]
I AM NOT TRYING TO JUSTIFY CHILD ABUSE. I AM MERELY SAYING THAT YOU SHOULD NOT ARREST SOMEONE FOR NO REASON BEYOND THEIR SEXUALITY. THE INSTANT THERE IS ANY EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT THE ASSOCIATION WAS TAKING PART IN THE ROUTINE ABUSE OF MINORS I WILL FULLY SUPPORT THE DUTCH GOVERNMENT BANNING IT.[/I][/B]
I understand that there is evidence to suggest that the group was organized like that, but I think the discussion has progressed beyond that.
there's a distinct line between fucking a child and fucking a consenting adult
[QUOTE=parket;36565023]i know that having the former greatly increases the chance of the latter, and that everyone who labels themselves as the former should get help asap (i know a few people like Sgt-NiallR are very emotional but if you're experiencing these urges (Sgt-NiallR) please get help)[/QUOTE]
If you have any evidence, that would be wonderful. All the numbers I've ever checked show a rate of actual molestation by pedophiles no greater than 2%, and that's assuming that [I]only[/I] pedophiles molest children.
[QUOTE=parket;36565070]there's a distinct line between fucking a child and fucking a consenting adult[/QUOTE]
nice dodge you fucking imbecile
[QUOTE=parket;36565070]there's a distinct line between fucking a child and fucking a consenting adult[/QUOTE]
JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE A PEDO DOESN'T MEAN YOU FUCK CHILDREN GOD YOU ARE [B]RETARDED[/B]
[QUOTE=parket;36565070]there's a distinct line between fucking a child and fucking a consenting adult[/QUOTE]
You know what? I'm straight, and it seems like I haven't ever raped, or in fact had sex with a woman ever.
Heterosexual people don't feel the need to rape every woman they see
Gay people don't feel the need to rape every man they see
Paedophiles don't feel the need to rape children every time they see one
People who fuck cars don't stick their dicks in the exhaust pipes of every car they see.
Notice the pattern?
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;36565075]If you have any evidence, that would be wonderful. All the numbers I've ever checked show a rate of actual molestation by pedophiles no greater than 2%, and that's assuming that [I]only[/I] pedophiles molest children.[/QUOTE]
Wait, what? Can [I]you[/I] provide a source for this?
I'm pretty sure almost all child molesters are pedophiles.
The thing that parket doesn't understand is that the opposite isn't also true.
We have no idea how many pedophiles actually exist, but it seems pretty clear to me that the majority aren't abusive. It's exactly like any other group of people; there are bad apples in every group.
How is it a dodge? You can fuck whatever you want idgaf, as long as it can and does consent with a developed sense of it's own well being.
If you're attracted to under-aged people and think that you're in danger of physically harming one then you should get help, I'm not saying there's some magic away solution but I'm damn sure there's support groups to help you deal with it.
[editline]30th June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;36565123]
Paedophiles don't feel the need to rape children every time they see one
[/QUOTE]
I never said they are, it's just groups like these that encourage something that's obviously detrimental to both parties shouldn't be allowed.
[editline]30th June 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;36565123]You know what? I'm straight, and it seems like I haven't ever raped, or in fact had sex with a woman ever.
[/QUOTE]
oh and by the way, i kinda guessed this
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;36565131]Wait, what? Can [I]you[/I] provide a source for this?
I'm pretty sure almost all child molesters are pedophiles.
The thing that parket doesn't understand is that the opposite isn't also true.
We have no idea how many pedophiles actually exist, but it seems pretty clear to me that the majority aren't abusive. It's exactly like any other group of people; there are bad apples in every group.[/QUOTE]
It's somewhere deep in my posting history, from years ago. I cited the data then, but I've had this argument too many times to care enough to even find my own post.
Basically, we do have estimates of the rate of pedophilia, and we also know how many (with conservative estimation) child molestations occur. The rate of molestation is far below the estimated population of pedophiles, even assuming a 1:1 rate of offender:victim.
I suspect that those people who molest strangers are very often pedophiles, but those that molest their own children are less often pedophiles. I would want information to back up this claim, but I don't have time to study it today.
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;36565131]I'm pretty sure almost all child molesters are pedophiles.
The thing that parket doesn't understand is that the opposite isn't also true.[/QUOTE]
Not true. Rape of women and children alike used to occur (and still does to a lesser extent I imagine) en masse by the victors of battles in wartime, and I doubt it always had to do with pedophilia. More likely the soldiers (pieces of shit that they were) wanted a reward for their victory, so they'd get drunk and go loot and rape whatever they found.
[QUOTE=parket;36565135]I never said they are, it's just groups like these that encourage something that's obviously detrimental to both parties shouldn't be allowed.
[/QUOTE]
I agree that groups like this shouldn't been allowed, but you are talking like every pedophile is a child molester and that is simply not true.
[QUOTE=FalconKrunch;36565212]I agree that groups like this shouldn't been allowed, but you are talking like every pedophile is a child molester and that is simply not true.[/QUOTE]
"[B]If you're attracted to under-aged people and think that you're in danger of physically harming one[/B] then you should get help, I'm not saying there's some magic away solution but I'm damn sure there's support groups to help you deal with it."
[QUOTE=KaIibos;36565194]Not true. Rape of women and children alike used to occur (and still does to a lesser extent I imagine) en masse by the victors of battles in wartime, and I doubt it always had to do with pedophilia. More likely the soldiers (pieces of shit that they were) wanted a reward for their victory, so they'd get drunk and go loot and rape whatever they found.[/QUOTE]
Well, I don't think he's talking about war rape, but just child rape in general.
But it is true that rape is very often not about sexual desire, but about power.
[quote=parket]everyone who labels themselves as the former [paedophile] should get help asap[/quote]
Seems like you meant to imply that paedophilia is an major problem, regardless of whether or not you abuse a child.
[QUOTE=parket;36565246]"[B]If you're attracted to under-aged people and think that you're in danger of physically harming one[/B] then you should get help, I'm not saying there's some magic away solution but I'm damn sure there's support groups to help you deal with it."[/QUOTE]
You are backpedaling.
[QUOTE=parket;36564728]yo yeah, uh.. what the fuck is wrong with you[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=parket;36565070]there's a distinct line between fucking a child and fucking a consenting adult[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=parket;36564929]just because it's a fetish doesn't mean it's alright. of course homosexuality is different because you're fucking another consenting adult (hopefully), these people fuck children and they need help suppressing it.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=parket;36564804]no i read your posts looked at your avatar and used a logical deduction to conclude you're an accident waiting to happen
[editline]30th June 2012[/editline]
its not a healthy mindset if youre being a pedo apologist[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;36565301]Seems like you meant to imply that paedophilia is an major problem, regardless of whether or not you abuse a child.[/QUOTE]
Well when your psyche is set up in a way that makes you prone to harming children I consider that a major problem
[QUOTE=Last or First;36565290]Well, I don't think he's talking about war rape, but just child rape in general.
But it is true that rape is very often not about sexual desire, but about power.[/QUOTE]
Well I'm glad we're sprekensey the same lingidy!
[img]http://cdn0.hark.com/images/000/001/831/1831/original.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=parket;36565246]"[B]If you're attracted to under-aged people and think that you're in danger of physically harming one[/B] then you should get help, I'm not saying there's some magic away solution but I'm damn sure there's support groups to help you deal with it."[/QUOTE]
Oh lord that change of tone. One minute youre calling for blood and next youre saying they need help.
[QUOTE=FalconKrunch;36565313]You are backpedaling.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry I don't see what's so mutually exclusive about those statements, anyone saying a group like these being shut down has something wrong with them. There is a distinct line between fucking a child and an adult, which is why these people need help if they're having trouble controlling their urges. I don't think paedophilia is alright and I don't think that user is right in the head.
[QUOTE=parket;36565478]I'm sorry I don't see what's so mutually exclusive about those statements, anyone saying a group like these being shut down has something wrong with them. There is a distinct line between fucking a child and an adult, which is why these people need help if they're having trouble controlling their urges. I don't think paedophilia is alright and I don't think that user is right in the head.[/QUOTE]
The mindset of "Anyone that disagrees with me is wrong" is why there are protections for freedom of speech.
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;36565491]The mindset of "Anyone that disagrees with me is wrong" is why there are protections for freedom of speech.[/QUOTE]
There's a big difference between talking about something and setting up a group dedicated to promoting it.
[QUOTE=parket;36565517]There's a big difference between talking about something and setting up a group dedicated to promoting it.[/QUOTE]
Well, actually, that's pretty much exactly the same thing. The group seemed to be about saying that it shouldn't be a crime, not to go and commit the crime anyway. If they were [I]actually[/I] promoting committing the crime while it's still a crime, that is a bit different, but that doesn't seem to have been the argument of the court.
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;36565530]Well, actually, that's pretty much exactly the same thing. The group seemed to be about saying that it shouldn't be a crime, not to go and commit the crime anyway. If they were [I]actually[/I] promoting committing the crime while it's still a crime, that is a bit different, but that doesn't seem to have been the argument of the court.[/QUOTE]
The article is terrible, the group in question always had a dubious leadership and they pretty much promoted child molestation, just not openly.
[QUOTE=FalconKrunch;36565553]The article is terrible, the group in question always had a dubious leadership and they pretty much promoted child molestation, just not openly.[/QUOTE]
Promoting the legalization of something currently illegal isn't the same as promoting committing a crime, so is there an article that points to them actually promoting committing the crime?
Dutch Catholics should watch out.
They're next.
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;36565593]Promoting the legalization of something currently illegal isn't the same as promoting committing a crime, so is there an article that points to them actually promoting committing the crime?[/QUOTE]
Not that I can find at the moment but I can recall an article about a molester who confessed that the group in question gave him tips and tricks for the trade.
Also, the leader(Martijn Uittenboogaard) encouraged intercourse. It's in dutch though:[url]http://www.nu.nl/politiek/2845352/rechtbank-verbiedt-pedovereniging-martijn.html[/url]
The linked article also mentions the problem of pedophiles that were inside the group going "Underground", meaning the "deep web" or something similar.
I mean, accessing CP is incredibly easy when you go "Underground" because you are completely anonymous.
The hidden wiki has like 100+ websites listed.
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;36563825]There's no apology there, he's just saying that you can't arrest paedophiles for being paedophiles, for the same reason you can't arrest gay people for being gay.
There's no difference between the orientations, though there is a difference between the act of sex.[/QUOTE]
You can arrest them if - as said in the article - they get convicted of offence like their leader being arrested for child pornography
its a center for pedophiles, its quite obvious what they're doing. We live in a world that is morally bigoted and its always going to be that way, especially towards child molestation and pedophiles. Either way, I'm not sure how a pedophile association is exactly inflicting on peoples freedom of expression - it seems in order to express yourself you need a building associated with your group.
Wow, I thought The Netherlands was one of the few countries that were actually more liberal and open minded these days. This is very surprising.
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