Thoughts of God Make Us Slackers, Study Suggests - Polidicks

I am in the 90%. The 90% of people who believe god exists [b]or may exist[/b]. I don't rule out the possibility of a god, just I think it is extremely unlikely.

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;33057256]Or that you feel the need to force your beliefs onto someone else.[/QUOTE]Is a judge or jury "forcing its beliefs" on someone if they say they need to present evidence in a court of law?

[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;33057256]Or that you feel the need to force your beliefs onto someone else.[/QUOTE] those damn militant atheists, always forcing reason and logic upon us it annoys me when they ask for evidence, because then I don't have an argument!!

[QUOTE=Miskav;33054011]Maybe in backwater rural areas/third world countries, but not in the modern world.[/QUOTE] uh what [quote]In the following table one can see the complexity of religion in the Netherlands: while 45% of the Dutch population are not members of any religious community, the other 55% are distributed over a diversity of religions. 43.4% of the Dutch population is affiliated with a Christian church.[/quote]

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;33057243]Other than the fact that atheists hold that you should have evidence to back up your beliefs and use a scientific and logical lens for all such matters.[/QUOTE] So do some Christians.

[QUOTE=tinos;33057306]So do some Christians.[/QUOTE]Then they're not very good at following that notion.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;33057243]Other than the fact that atheists hold that you should have evidence to back up your beliefs and use a scientific and logical lens for all such matters.[/QUOTE] Actually, the only thing that atheists hold is that there is no god. The term atheist means nothing more than that.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;33057294]Is a judge or jury "forcing its beliefs" on someone if they say they need to present evidence in a court of law?[/QUOTE] For the sake of the argument, it doesn't matter if what you say is fact or fiction. The matter of the issue is that you [i]believe[/i] in fact, and others choose to [i]believe[/i] in fiction. You, just like the theists you despise, force your beliefs onto theists.

[QUOTE=Paramud;33057339]Actually, the only thing that atheists hold is that there is no god. The term atheist means nothing more than that.[/QUOTE]Yes, the term means "without god" but that says nothing about the group other than giving hints at what the views of the group may or may not be. You're trying to argue semantics of a name when it has no relevance. They could just as easily call themselves skeptics, nonbelievers, or whatever. That has no impact on the actual views of the group.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;33057400]You're trying to argue semantics of a name when it has no relevance.[/QUOTE] No, I'm not. All that atheism entails is whether or not you believe in a god, in whatever shape or form you think it is. Literally, all that it implies, is that the person does not believe in a god. Whether or not they adhere to a scientific standpoint regarding the the universe plays no role in this.

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;33055285]And it can be really hard to tolerate a bunch of intolerant assholes who feel the need to attack people cause they think differently. Goes both ways dude.[/QUOTE] You can think differently all you want. It doesn't mean its true. I don't refer to killing people for being gay or working on Sunday as "thinking differently".. I call it lunacy.

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;33057243]Other than the fact that atheists hold that you should have evidence to back up your beliefs and use a scientific and logical lens for all such matters.[/QUOTE] You should have evidence that backs up your beliefs and use a scientific and logical lens for all such matter? Ok. Disprove disprove disprove. Since evidence seems to be the core incentive of atheism, why doesn't someone in this damn thread PROVE that there ISN'T a god. I'm not talking about using your 'logic' or anecdotal evidence, or your personal stories or personal opinions. I'm talking cold hard facts, scientific proof that there is no god. Can ANYONE do that? If science plays such a huge role then doesn't the fact that you can't scientifically prove there isn't a god negate the entire notion of atheism in the first place? One more thing. You know what a lot of the people in this thread that are talking down on religion remind me of? Those annoying Jehovah's witnesses that go door to door and try to convert people. You people are like the Jehovah's witnesses of atheists.

I don't give a fuck if someone's religious or not, as long as their religion doesn't want them to kill all nonbelievers.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;33057494]You should have evidence that backs up your beliefs and use a scientific and logical lens for all such matter? Ok. Disprove disprove disprove. Since evidence seems to be the core incentive of atheism, why doesn't someone in this damn thread PROVE that there ISN'T a god. I'm not talking about using your 'logic' or anecdotal evidence, or your personal stories or personal opinions. I'm talking cold hard facts, scientific proof that there is no god. Can ANYONE do that? [/QUOTE] Oh dear.. the old "X is true until you can disprove it" logic again.. Replace X with fairies, unicorns, the tooth fairy, and santa claus to see how terrible your logic is [url]http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html[/url]

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;33057494]words[/QUOTE] Oh dear jesus No. Just no. To all of that. To put the things running through my head bluntly (and there are a huge number of responses running through my head right now); Just because we can't disprove something, doesn't mean we should believe it.

Cannot prove. Cannot disprove. This whole fucking argument is pointless, unless some definite evidence is shown from either side.

[QUOTE=Flubadoo;33057583]Cannot prove. Cannot disprove. This whole fucking argument is pointless, unless some definite evidence is shown from either side.[/QUOTE] Wrong. You don't need to have evidence to disprove something in order to invalidate the claim. The claim is invalid until it's supported by evidence. Again, burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Otherwise such fallacious logic leads to things like: "You can't disprove the existence of flying unicorns and fairies, so they must exist."

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;33057494]You should have evidence that backs up your beliefs and use a scientific and logical lens for all such matter? Ok. Disprove disprove disprove. Since evidence seems to be the core incentive of atheism, why doesn't someone in this damn thread PROVE that there ISN'T a god. I'm not talking about using your 'logic' or anecdotal evidence, or your personal stories or personal opinions. I'm talking cold hard facts, scientific proof that there is no god. Can ANYONE do that? If science plays such a huge role then doesn't the fact that you can't scientifically prove there isn't a god negate the entire notion of atheism in the first place? One more thing. You know what a lot of the people in this thread that are talking down on religion remind me of? Those annoying Jehovah's witnesses that go door to door and try to convert people. You people are like the Jehovah's witnesses of atheists.[/QUOTE]Protip: It is not the job of the Atheists to prove there isn't a God. Its the job of the believers to prove that there is. Its called the burden of proof. They presented the claim that there is a God, and they have to prove it. The core issue here is that you inherently can not prove a negative. But if the affirmative cannot provide adequate evidence of their claim, then the case automatically defaults to the negative by virtue of being the negative.

[QUOTE=Paramud;33057553]Oh dear jesus No. Just no. To all of that. To put the things running through my head bluntly (and there are a huge number of responses running through my head right now); Just because we can't disprove something, doesn't mean we should believe it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Noble;33057538]Oh dear.. the old "X is true until you can disprove it" logic again.. Replace X with fairies, unicorns, the tooth fairy, and santa claus to see how terrible your logic is [url]http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html[/url][/QUOTE] Right. Lets avoid this undeniable fact that you can not disprove anything that does not have directly tangible, real world evidence, and continue being intolerant and ignorant of others beliefs. Do you see whats wrong here? [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;33057626]Protip: It is not the job of the Atheists to prove there isn't a God. Its the job of the believers to prove that there is. Its called the burden of proof. They presented the claim that there is a God, and they have to prove it. The core issue here is that you inherently can not prove a negative. But if the affirmative cannot provide adequate evidence of their claim, then the case automatically defaults to the negative by virtue of being the negative.[/QUOTE] Hello, The burden of proof works both ways. While Religion has made the claim that there is a god, it is there burdon to prove this claim. It is the same for atheists. Atheism claims that there isn't, so the burdon of proof is on you to prove that your beliefs are right, and there is in fact no god. Do you guys see the point i am trying to make here? Do i need to spell it out for you? A belief is a BELIEF. Stop This nonsense of making it your life goal to disprove all religion. "You don't believe in what i believe, there for your beliefs are wrong." Is anything I'm saying here getting through to you guys. I'm not here to prove god exists, I'm here to prove that you have to be a completely ignorant fuck to spend you time trying to talk down to, and disprove someone elses beliefs.

[QUOTE=Noble;33057538]Oh dear.. the old "X is true until you can disprove it" logic again.. Replace X with fairies, unicorns, the tooth fairy, and santa claus to see how terrible your logic is [url]http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html[/url][/QUOTE]Thank you. I just went about it in a slightly more exaggerated manner. Here is a good analogy courtesy of everybody's favorite philosopher Bertrand Russel: [quote]Many orthodox people speak as though it were the business of sceptics to disprove received dogmas rather than of dogmatists to prove them. This is, of course, a mistake. If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.[/quote]

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;33057633]Right. Lets avoid this undeniable fact that you can not disprove anything that does not have directly tangible, real world evidence, and continue being intolerant and ignorant of others beliefs. Do you see whats wrong here?[/QUOTE] If you do not have tangible, real world evidence, then you can make up any beliefs you want and call them valid because they can't be disproved. Also a lot of religious supernatural claims do cross onto the territory of science. For example the idea that god created everything in 6 days and earth is 6000 years old, that idea does indeed conflict with science (real world evidence). And when your (or anyone's) beliefs consist of morals like "homosexuals should be put to death" and lessons about slaughtering people who anger your god, no, I won't be tolerant of those beliefs.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;33057633]Right. Lets avoid this undeniable fact that you can not disprove anything that does not have directly tangible, real world evidence, and continue being intolerant and ignorant of others beliefs. Do you see whats wrong here?[/QUOTE] Right, I'm the intolerant one. Despite the fact that I, a Satanist, have friends with religious views ranging from simple atheism to Mormonism to Buddhism, and family comprised mainly of Catholics who, despite my polar opposite religious views, accept and love me for who I am. What could I [b]possibly[/b] know about tolerance and understanding

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;33057633]Right. Lets avoid this undeniable fact that you can not disprove anything that does not have directly tangible, real world evidence, and continue being intolerant and ignorant of others beliefs. Do you see whats wrong here?[/QUOTE]No, its not being intolerant or ignorant. Many atheists are very well educated on world religions and most hold that people are entitled to their beliefs.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;33057633] The burden of proof works both ways. While Religion has made the claim that there is a god, it is there burdon to prove this claim. It is the same for atheists. Atheism claims that there isn't, so the burdon of proof is on you to prove that your beliefs are right, and there is in fact no god. Do you guys see the point i am trying to make here? Do i need to spell it out for you? A belief is a BELIEF. Stop This nonsense of making it your life goal to disprove all religion. "You don't believe in what i believe, there for your beliefs are wrong." Is anything I'm saying here getting through to you guys. I'm not here to prove god exists, I'm here to prove that you have to be a completely ignorant fuck to spend you time trying to talk down to, and disprove someone elses beliefs.[/QUOTE] Wrong, atheists do not claim there is no god. That is where you're mistaken. Atheism is just the lack of belief in something.. it's as much of a religion as "off" is a tv channel. All atheists are doing is asking you for some proof that god exists.. until that proof is demonstrated the tv (religion) will be set to "off". Atheists can't disprove god because without evidence, there's nothing to disprove. There are an infinite amount of things you can't disprove, but we don't consider them true/real (like unicorns and goblins). This is where your logic leads: A: Bigfoot exists. B: How do you know he exists? A: Well can you disprove his existence? B: No A: Then he exists!

[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;33057739]No, its not being intolerant or ignorant. Many atheists are very well educated on world religions and most hold that people are entitled to their beliefs.[/QUOTE] The sure have a funny way of showing it in this thread, and all threads a like on facepunch. I understand this forum is predominately atheist, thats fine, but is it necessary to knock religion at any chance you guys get? As for the actualy belief of atheism, yes, there is a set definition to atheism. There is also a set definition to christian, which is what i am, however my definition of being christian differs from the wikipedia definition. So its safe to say there are people out there that call themselves athesits, that believe as a matter of fact that there is no god. Thats where i am going with this. I am aware there are people out there simple sitting on the sidelines and waiting for it to be proven. But i'm more directing this to the people who are actively saying it is bullshit and "fake".

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;33057633]It is the same for atheists. Atheism claims that there isn't, so the burdon of proof is on you to prove that your beliefs are right, and there is in fact no god.[/QUOTE] "I don't believe your stories of supernatural events that you claim are real but never showed evidence for" "PROVE IT!!"

[QUOTE=The Baconator;33058032]"I don't believe your stories of supernatural events that you claim are real but never showed evidence for" "PROVE IT!!"[/QUOTE] Does the word belief mean anything to you? Man it's like the main point i'm trying to make is whizzing right over everyones dense skull structures.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;33058187]Does the word belief mean anything to you? Man it's like the main point i'm trying to make is whizzing right over everyones dense skull structures.[/QUOTE]No, its more like your point did an immediate U-turn, performed a corkscrew spin, dove straight down, tried to pull back up, and crashed on impact with the ground coincidentally near an airshow.

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;33058187]Does the word belief mean anything to you? Man it's like the main point i'm trying to make is whizzing right over everyones dense skull structures.[/QUOTE] I don't subscribe to the idea that one can just say 'I believe it' and waive all burden of proof. Would you treat the idea that the universe was created by a sentient popsicle with the same validity as the teachings of Islam or Judaism? Either way, they have no proof, and you cannot simply say "it's my belief" and remove responsibility for proof from yourself. There is no 'Church of Atheism' nor is there a strict guideline for what an Atheist is, other than a lack of belief in God, which is the default position of pretty much anyone, because it a lack of belief, not a faith in disbelief.

[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;33054469] And it's not bullshit. Even athiests will read the Bible because just for educational purposes.[/QUOTE] I'm an atheist and the reason I have read the bible is for entertainment value. Reading about how Abraham was willing to kill his son because God told him to, seeing burning bushes appear to people and how that is absolute proof of a divine being, willing to go out into the wilderness for 40 years and leave all worldly possessions, to see a jealous God that loves you and is still willing to destroy your very existence. [editline]31st October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=DiBBs27;33055302]Then maybe you should read the bible. Even if you aren't religious, the bible teaches you worth while life lessons. And one of them is to be tolerant of others. You'll live a much happier life that way.[/QUOTE] Yeah guys it teaches you that it's okay to stone your disobedient children to death, rape women as long as you pay a fine and marry the woman after and to kill all non-believers in front of Jesus Christ himself. Great moral lessons there. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure out you shouldn't rape anyone, you shouldn't be stealing other people's possessions, you shouldn't be killing people, you should respect your mother and father. Christians act like they have ownership over these [b]basic human principals[/b] but that's just basic logic.