BREAKING: Shooting at Black Lives Matter protest in Dallas, TX - Please SOURCE your updates. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=unrezt;50673914]I'll accept that when I see BLM members publicly condemning what just happened. And yes, that means without a big old "but... " at the end of it.[/QUOTE] [url]http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/leaders-black-lives-matter-condemn-violence-dallas-40435135[/url] ? Every movement has its share of extremist nutcases. Those who don't care for extremist actions will condemn them. Even the shooter said he has no affliation with their movement before he got blown to bits.

[QUOTE=Recurracy;50673924]And that's where the person disconnects himself with BLM, because at that point, it has nothing to do with what BLM wants anymore, he's just going out on the streets [I]with his own ideals[/I], which sadly enough, is supported by many crazy people, and I'm sure that a majority of the BLM core absolutely disagrees with this approach. Connecting these lunatics with BLM only allows you to see the entirety of the BLM movement as an entirely negative hate-fueled group of crazies.[/QUOTE] The suggestion here is that BLM convinced him that cops were bad. Convinced of such he decided to go out and do something about it after finding the other members of BLM were only willing to complain about bad cops and not actually shoot them.

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50673584]The gunman killed by the bomb robot is photoed here: [img]https://cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/10463973_720553121335709_8284552002292891731_n2-e1467990446918.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] This does confirm that he had military training.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50673937]The suggestion here is that BLM convinced him that cops were bad. Convinced of such he decided to go out and do something about it after finding the other members of BLM were only willing to complain about bad cops and not actually shoot them.[/QUOTE] That's probably because he hung around the rotten part of it - what about the camo man that got arrested when he tried to help the officers? His brother is a well-spoken man who has his heart and mind in the right place. People like that need to lead BLM. But there is no leader at the moment. It's just a rather loose group of people who want these real, genuine issues to fuck off, for the better of anyone and everyone. And I support the idea, but not the current execution. I mean, interrupting a Pride rally? What's that going to accomplish? Fucking nothing, and that's the reason people look down to the entirety of BLM. But to disregard an entire movement because there are crazy people who associate themselves with it, to me, that's the equivalent of spitting all of them in the face, and then you can't even take the people who [I]really[/I] want to solve things and accomplish actual progress seriously anymore, because you're already stuck with the idea that anyone who associates themselves with BLM is a crazy nutjob. I agree with the idea of BLM, I don't agree with the current execution. I'm honestly fucking disgusted by anyone who says BLM is 'just a bunch of lunatics'. There are real lunatics who try to associate themselves with BLM because the movement allows that right now, but to me, they're not BLM, they're just a bunch of assholes who want nothing but stir shit up and kill cops. They're just as bad as the white police officers who kill a peaceful cooperative black person just because of his skin color, based on prejudice.

[QUOTE=Recurracy;50673958]That's probably because he hung around the rotten part of it - what about the camo man that got arrested when he tried to help the officers? His brother is a well-spoken man who has his heart and mind in the right place. People like that need to lead BLM. But there is no leader at the moment. It's just a rather loose group of people who want these issues to fuck off. But to disregard an entire movement because there are crazy people who associate themselves with it, to me, that's the equivalent of spitting all of them in the face. I agree with the idea of BLM, I don't agree with the current execution. I'm honestly fucking disgusted by anyone who says BLM is 'just a bunch of lunatics'.[/QUOTE] That's what I'm saying. BLM needs to be dissolved and replaced with, as I stated earlier in this thread, a strong grassroots civil rights movement [B]with a strong central leadership[/B] inclusive to all races and geared toward younger people. We need a face and a voice like MLK, someone who can command crowds and unify. BLM doesn't have that - as a movement it rejects the idea of centralization and in my opinion unity by extension. I find, as a (egalitarian) conservative with a very conservative family, BLM's intent is very easily misunderstood and misdirected by people using its name to push their own agendas, and it weakens and dilutes its message with divisive rhetoric.

[QUOTE=unrezt;50673914]I'll accept that when I see BLM members publicly condemning what just happened. And yes, that means without a big old "but... " at the end of it.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://twitter.com/Blklivesmatter/status/751311826013417472"]Here you go.[/URL] 130,000 followers. Official twitter created by the founders of the BLM organization and website. The [URL="https://www.facebook.com/BlackLivesMatter/"]official Facebook page[/URL] says "We should reject all of this," and for an "end to violence, not an escalation of it." They are denouncing it - you just don't care to spend five minutes googling to see that. [editline]8th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Grenadiac;50673937]The suggestion here is that BLM convinced him that cops were bad. Convinced of such he decided to go out and do something about it after finding the other members of BLM were only willing to complain about bad cops and not actually shoot them.[/QUOTE] The deceased suspect was a member of multiple black nationalist/supremacist/separatist groups. These have existed since [i]long before[/i] BLM was ever a thing, and have been marked as extremist groups, sometimes terrorist groups, and hate groups in the past.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50673971]That's what I'm saying. BLM needs to be dissolved and replaced with, as I stated earlier in this thread, a strong grassroots civil rights movement [B]with a strong central leadership[/B] inclusive to all races and geared toward younger people. We need a face and a voice like MLK, someone who can command crowds and unify. I find, as a (egalitarian) conservative with a very conservative family, BLM's intent is very easily misunderstood and misdirected by people using its name to push their own agendas, and it weakens and dilutes its message with divisive rhetoric.[/QUOTE] Ohh, I get it. I'm not very good at debating anymore, like at all. I just have trouble finding the right words and all lately... But I still think these shooters are just fucking lunatics who don't stand behind BLM at all. They're doing the exact opposite of what BLM wants; by what they did here, they're just creating more hate and prejudice, in a time where it's already running rampant. It's just so fucking cruel to me that this peaceful protest earlier in the day was completely ruined by these assholes.

Who is the leader of #BlueLivesMatter, Grenadiac? Who is the leader of #AllLivesMatter? You don't have a leader behind a hashtag. That's the reality of modern social movements. Even if you have a leader, how do you plan on unifying people with thousands of different opinions? How do you plan on doing that? The internet makes it an impossibility.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;50674000]Who is the leader of #BlueLivesMatter, Grenadiac? Who is the leader of #AllLivesMatter? You don't have a leader behind a hashtag. That's the reality of modern social movements. Even if you have a leader, how do you plan on unifying people with thousands of different opinions? How do you plan on doing that? The internet makes it an impossibility.[/QUOTE] Do you not see how having leadership and organization strengthens a movement? Remember #OWS? It fell apart for a reason: it lost track of its goal.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50673633]Was he a combat veteran?[/QUOTE] I've been observing the pictures and video footages (and so did almost half of /k/....) It's recommended to just wait for a police confirmation, but I'll post my analysis anyway. (I haven't updated myself for 6 hours) The way one of them handled the firearm, and his combat maneuverability: Suppressing and flanking successfully towards a pinned down target, and single prescision shooting during intense moments (even at close quarters). The duration of the shootout, the marksman positions were effective, and how they moved to different areas under heavy resistance. According to their equipment that was described (kevlar, etc), they had good access to supply themselves. There's a big chance that they have or had military experience, because this is not a common "gangster" we're dealing with. The weapon has still not been identified, but it's not an AR as it's front is too different, and the magazine is very curvy (the footage is very blury).

some of you are really insinuating that there's a correlation between supporting a movement about black rights and being radicalized committing terrorist acts this is like saying the civil rights movement radicalized people because there were splinter groups that had far more abhorrent approaches honestly these type of threads are a cesspool, I hope some of you think about accusations and hate you propagate.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;50674000]Who is the leader of #BlueLivesMatter, Grenadiac? Who is the leader of #AllLivesMatter? You don't have a leader behind a hashtag. That's the reality of modern social movements. Even if you have a leader, how do you plan on unifying people with thousands of different opinions? How do you plan on doing that? The internet makes it an impossibility.[/QUOTE] I'd start by doing speeches and stuff in front of a giant audience. That makes it a lot more legitimate than just words limited by the tweets. There's only so much you can say in them, it pretty much removes everything you really want to say and leaves you with something so dangerously open to interpretation.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50674011]Do you not see how having leadership and organization strengthens a movement? Remember #OWS? It fell apart for a reason: it lost track of its goal.[/QUOTE] I agree. Now give me any social movement in the last 10 years that has had a distinct figurehead leader and a near-unanimous acceptance of that leaders' ideals. There isn't one. There can't be one. Maybe Bernie's an example - and as his campaign fell apart, so too did the people behind it. In less than a year. Fractured opinions, Bernie or Bust, switch to Hillary, go for Stein, support downballot candidates, complain online, which one truly reflects the real opinion behind Bernie's political movement? None of them.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;50674030]I agree. Now give me any social movement in the last 10 years that has had a distinct figurehead leader and a near-unanimous acceptance of that leaders' ideals. There isn't one. There can't be one. Maybe Bernie's an example - and as his campaign fell apart, so too did the people behind it. In less than a year. Fractured opinions, Bernie or Bust, switch to Hillary, go for Stein, support downballot candidates, complain online, which one truly reflects the real opinion behind Bernie's political movement? None of them.[/QUOTE] Bernie was lightning in a bottle. He didn't stand a chance against someone so firmly cemented in politics, though. His general civil rights message is still running like a watch.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50673851]Damn, not even four posts later:[/QUOTE] So you're saying it's alright to associate a domestic terrorist, who just killed 5 police officers for no better reason than 'I fucking hate these white brother-killing assholes and I fucking hate BLM for not killing them quickly enough', with a movement that genuinely wants people to understand each other, only because he used to associate himself with BLM? The moment he thought to himself 'hmm yeah I should go and kill officers', that's the exact moment he had nothing to do with BLM anymore

[QUOTE=lum1naire;50674019]some of you are really insinuating that there's a correlation between supporting a movement about black rights and being radicalized committing terrorist acts this is like saying the civil rights movement radicalized people because there were splinter groups that had far more abhorrent approaches honestly these type of threads are a cesspool, I hope some of you think about accusations and hate you propagate.[/QUOTE] There are people who really insinuate that theres a correlation between violence in video games cause violence in real life, and sexism, and racist organizations, and every other issue you can imagine. It's the same logic, just a different subject.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;50674048]Bernie was lightning in a bottle. He didn't stand a chance against someone so firmly cemented in politics, though. His general civil rights message is still running like a watch.[/QUOTE] As is BLM's general civil rights message. You're not complaining about the general message - you're complaining about the variance around it, and calling for a central authority to reign in that variance to align with the general message. Bernie can't do that - he's told people he won't run independent but they'll still write him in, he's told his supporters that they're too smart to vote for Trump but many of them still are, it goes on and on. Does the fact that some Bernie supporters are voting Trump mean that's what he wants, even though he's explicitly denounced it over and over? No - it means [i]followers of a social movement will do as they please regardless of what the leader says[/i]. Even if BLM had a single distinct leader, there would be millions that outright ignore them. The same went for the Civil Rights Movement - there were plenty of groups that were perfectly okay with violence and didn't give MLK Jr the time of day. To say otherwise is whitewashing history. He was one of like 5 or 6 major groups, all with distinct leaders, all saying slightly different things.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;50674061]There are people who really insinuate that theres a correlation between violence in video games cause violence in real life, and sexism, and racist organizations, and every other issue you can imagine. It's the same logic, just a different subject.[/QUOTE] Hypocritically enough when you replace 'BLM' with 'video game' the same people who use that kind of logic will cry wolf. Anyway I said what I wanted to say. Back to lurking. Too fucking scared out of my mind right now to even post my opinions anymore.

(Going through the thread slowly.) [QUOTE=TheTalon;50672000]You know who's fault this is? The media's. Every chance they get they make it about race and the cop's fault even before they have details. And they run with it. Non stop, constantly, and NEVER apologize for being wrong when they are. And this is going to be no different[/QUOTE] I agree to some extent, but radicalisation also can fairly easily happen when that's not the case, under the right circumstances. The media situation in the US just makes it a lot easier.

[QUOTE=Recurracy;50674073]Hypocritically enough when you replace 'BLM' with 'video game' the same people who use that kind of logic will cry wolf. Anyway I said what I wanted to say. Back to lurking. Too fucking scared out of my mind right now to even post my opinions anymore.[/QUOTE] It isn't always done on purpose. It's the way our minds work sometimes.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;50674061]There are people who really insinuate that theres a correlation between violence in video games cause violence in real life, and sexism, and racist organizations, and every other issue you can imagine. It's the same logic, just a different subject.[/QUOTE] and generally a lot of those are met with almost unanimous contempt here but when we start talking about people of color things start to get messy

[QUOTE=Recurracy;50674073]Hypocritically enough when you replace 'BLM' with 'video game' the same people who use that kind of logic will cry wolf. Anyway I said what I wanted to say. Back to lurking. Too fucking scared out of my mind right now to even post my opinions anymore.[/QUOTE] Except videogames aren't a political ideology. Your argument is like saying "cheeseburgers are great" is hypocritical because you would react differently if you replaced the word "cheeseburgers" with "murder".

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;50674088]It isn't always done on purpose. It's the way our minds work sometimes.[/QUOTE] unintentional or not, it's their job to listen and alter their way of thinking. I can't accept an excuse like 'it's the way our minds work.' If we want a dialogue that will actually be productive, it's important to listen and have conclusive rationale after seeing and hearing all the dimensions to a multi faceted issue

[QUOTE=Recurracy;50674047]So you're saying it's alright to associate a domestic terrorist, who just killed 5 police officers for no better reason than 'I fucking hate these white brother-killing assholes and I fucking hate BLM for not killing them quickly enough', with a movement that genuinely wants people to understand each other, only because he used to associate himself with BLM? The moment he thought to himself 'hmm yeah I should go and kill officers', that's the exact moment he had nothing to do with BLM anymore[/QUOTE] Are you saying he threw a dart on a calendar and JUST so happen to have it land on the exact day and hour that BLM is having a protest?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50674108]Are you saying he threw a dart on a calendar and JUST so happen to have it land on the exact day and hour that BLM is having a protest?[/QUOTE] a protest is public knowledge, and the culprit wanted to stage an attack where many cops would be present? and to cause a disruption like this probably? I don't understand what you're implying here. Y'all really want BLM to be culpable that badly huh

[QUOTE=OvB;50670017]Tragic that it comes to this. Violence is not the answer to any of this. These cops did nothing to these people. Pure and simple murder. Absolutely apalling.[/QUOTE] I view it as a necessary evil. A big evil at that. It's time for these police officers to stop shooting these black men. You wanna shoot my people for no reason? Fine, they're going to shoot back. Not saying it's right to do what they did, but god damn enough is enough.

[QUOTE=The bird Man;50674014]I've been observing the pictures and video footages (and so did almost half of /k/....) It's recommended to just wait for a police confirmation, but I'll post my analysis anyway. (I haven't updated myself for 6 hours) The way one of them handled the firearm, and his combat maneuverability: Suppressing and flanking successfully towards a pinned down target, and single prescision shooting during intense moments (even at close quarters). The duration of the shootout, the marksman positions were effective, and how they moved to different areas under heavy resistance. According to their equipment that was described (kevlar, etc), they had good access to supply themselves. There's a big chance that they have or had military experience, because this is not a common "gangster" we're dealing with. The weapon has still not been identified, but it's not an AR as it's front is too different, and the magazine is very curvy (the footage is very blury).[/QUOTE] I've been reading that this guy was a POG.

However, While Trump is still very likely to lose, I fear what's going to happen in the next four years because of this, Things are spiraling out of control, race relations have gotten nearly as bad as 1968.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;50673783]I've always thought BLM's core idea was pretty well-communicated: "black people are shot by police at far higher rates than any other ethnicity, those shootings are far less likely to be investigated, and even when an investigation finds fault there is less chance there will be punishment for the officer". I'm always doubtful of claims that any <generally-peaceful group> doesn't denounce extremists, because historically, they usually have, and just been ignored in the clamor of everyone else denouncing them. I haven't gone looking to see how many BLM people have denounced this attack but I'm pretty sure I'd find a lot.[/QUOTE] Usually its not that those groups don’t denounce people like that, its that they dont denounce people who share the vocabulary (in this case 'kill cops' etc) but do nothing about it, or in the case of feminism ive personally seen them promote demolishing men, and rile up women at meetings... i dont have much experience with the activists movement besides feminism, and only because i have a mother very active in the movement that drags me along occasionally. But this has given me clear insight i believe in how these movements flirt with extremism and stay out of reach as in 'not a true feminist' or 'we think thats bad' when something fucked up like the things they are litterally adviocating for in 'member rallies' happens.

[QUOTE=fukbitchsget$;50674154]I view it as a necessary evil. A big evil at that. It's time for these police officers to stop shooting these black men. You wanna shoot my people for no reason? Fine, they're going to shoot back.[/QUOTE] weren't you banned for calling me fucked up lol