• TSA blocking uncharged mobile devices from flights at some international airports
    93 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Thunderbolt;45316255]Maybe it's just to see if your phone/tablet/laptop/whatever is not a bomb? Obviously a gutted device chock full of explosive material wouldn't turn on. And if you were a terrorist and for some reason made the bomb's detonator activate by pressing the power button, you'd probably be hesitant to "turn it on" when they ask you to, raising even more suspicion. It's not really as dumb as it sounds at first[/QUOTE] It's dumb because if your device simply happens to be uncharged then you're fucked.
OK so now terrorists will put small batteries in their computers and fill the remaining space with a bomb...
-snip-
[QUOTE=BusterBluth;45317221]Just have it charged when you go to the airport. Its not that hard.[/QUOTE] ok, so if i forget to charge my phone before going to the airport it should be stolen from me or i should be forced to miss my flight? This is absurd, fearmongering bullshit. Just get rid of the tsa completely, this "security" does fuck all anyway.
I cannot really see the point of this. Terrorists that wants to bomb something that much that they want to plant it into a phone are probleary also smart enough to include a small device that could show some bogus non-working UI on the screen with a small battery aswell.
[QUOTE=proch;45317251]That honestly seems fairly reasonable.[/QUOTE] Absolutely nothing is reasonable about the TSA. If an actual cop in the US asks you to power on your phone, you can tell him to go suck a dick and be legally well within your rights. This is because the rules apply to police (on paper. How well that is executed is another discussion.). Meanwhile the poster children for abortion over at the TSA can somehow violate all the constitutional protections afforded to people and get away with it. The TSA is not what protects you. The TSA is the GOAL OF TERROR ATTACKS AGAINST AIRCRAFT. The goal is to make us spend stupid amounts of money and sacrifice our liberty in the name of "safety".
It's now gotten to the point that it's probably easier for terrorists to just shoot a plane down with a rocket rather than hijack it. Fucking hell. I'm going on a flight to Vegas in a month so I hope it won't be TSA shitfuckering. Also terrorists win, et cetera.
[QUOTE=GunFox;45318510]Absolutely nothing is reasonable about the TSA. If an actual cop in the US asks you to power on your phone, you can tell him to go suck a dick and be legally well within your rights. This is because the rules apply to police (on paper. How well that is executed is another discussion.). Meanwhile the poster children for abortion over at the TSA can somehow violate all the constitutional protections afforded to people and get away with it. The TSA is not what protects you. The TSA is the GOAL OF TERROR ATTACKS AGAINST AIRCRAFT. The goal is to make us so pend stupid amounts of money and sacrifice our liberty in the name of "safety".[/QUOTE] Random people don't just carry around phone bombs every day. There is an intention to blow up a plane with a phone bomb, so they enacted counter phone bomb measures.
[QUOTE=Mega1mpact;45316472]This would probably not 100% work for laptops because some people tend to swap out their hard drive for a bigger one or an ssd or just remove their disk drive en favor of a hdd/ssd[/QUOTE] it also wouldn't work for squids
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45318562]Random people don't just carry around phone bombs every day. There is an intention to blow up a plane with a phone bomb, so they enacted counter phone bomb measures.[/QUOTE] Ignoring for a minute the fact that it is irrelevant what they plan to do, and violating the rights of the people is always unacceptable: How would you blow up a plane with a phone bomb? We will be generous and say you have a phone filled with plastic explosives. The entire thing. You somehow managed to fool the xray, the bomb sniffers, everything. How would you then, from the passenger compartment, blow the plane up?
[QUOTE=GunFox;45318510]Absolutely nothing is reasonable about the TSA. If an actual cop in the US asks you to power on your phone, you can tell him to go suck a dick and be legally well within your rights. This is because the rules apply to police (on paper. How well that is executed is another discussion.). Meanwhile the poster children for abortion over at the TSA can somehow violate all the constitutional protections afforded to people and get away with it. The TSA is not what protects you. The TSA is the GOAL OF TERROR ATTACKS AGAINST AIRCRAFT. The goal is to make us spend stupid amounts of money and sacrifice our liberty in the name of "safety".[/QUOTE] I dunno about you but I'd rather power off my phone if asked/have others do the same than get blown up by a Radical Nova Soctian Separatist terrorist. [editline]7th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=GunFox;45318685]Ignoring for a minute the fact that it is irrelevant what they plan to do, and violating the rights of the people is always unacceptable: How would you blow up a plane with a phone bomb? We will be generous and say you have a phone filled with plastic explosives. The entire thing. You somehow managed to fool the xray, the bomb sniffers, everything. How would you then, from the passenger compartment, blow the plane up?[/QUOTE] as stated previously, use the phone bomb to breach the pilots cockpit to take over the plane
[QUOTE=Dermock;45318774]I dunno about you but I'd rather power off my phone if asked/have others do the same than get blown up by a Radical Nova Soctian Separatist terrorist. [editline]7th July 2014[/editline] as stated previously, used it to breach the pilots cockpit to take over the plane[/QUOTE] I'd rather we spend the money on education. Or national healthcare. Or even the freeway system. All would be better uses of the money and would probably save more lives too.
[QUOTE=GunFox;45318685]Ignoring for a minute the fact that it is irrelevant what they plan to do, and violating the rights of the people is always unacceptable: How would you blow up a plane with a phone bomb? We will be generous and say you have a phone filled with plastic explosives. The entire thing. You somehow managed to fool the xray, the bomb sniffers, everything. How would you then, from the passenger compartment, blow the plane up?[/QUOTE] I've been flying a lot and almost never see dog sniffers, usually it's just an x-ray and you're in. It's not some huge magical process, all you have to do is get through the x-ray with your phone. How would they do it? I don't know, but that doesn't matter, I'm assuming there is a way to blow up a plane with a phone sized device. The point is you're using a private service, you're not just on the street. It seems reasonable to be able to ask you to turn your device on, because they think someone will use a similar device as a weapon.
[QUOTE=GunFox;45318808]I'd rather we spend the money on education. Or national healthcare. Or even the freeway system. All would be better uses of the money and would probably save more lives too.[/QUOTE] There are things far more important than the TSA that you 'murricans could cut to fund your education and healthcare. Like the unwinnable war against drugs Or the various literal wars the US is involved in Or tax cuts for big corps Seriously the TSA is so low on the "list of things that are a waste of US tax dollars" its barely on the list.
[QUOTE=Dermock;45318774] as stated previously, use the phone bomb to breach the pilots cockpit to take over the plane[/QUOTE] Won't work. Need a shaped charge and a method of attaching it to the door. You also somehow need to stop passengers and crew from noticing and stopping you. Also some method of remaining conscious when the pilots vent the cabin pressure and make everyone pass out while they use O2 masks. And then you need some method of stopping the passengers and crew from regaining control immediately after you breach the cockpit. And even if you manage all of that, the plane has long since squawked 7500 for a hijacking. If you fly anywhere near population centers, you are shot down. Easier to just bomb a bus or a train. [editline]7th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45318825]I've been flying a lot and almost never see dog sniffers, usually it's just an x-ray and you're in. It's not some huge magical process, all you have to do is get through the x-ray with your phone. How would they do it? I don't know, but that doesn't matter, I'm assuming there is a way to blow up a plane with a phone sized device. The point is you're using a private service, you're not just on the street. It seems reasonable to be able to ask you to turn your device on, because they think someone will use a similar device as a weapon.[/QUOTE] So because someone might magically violate the laws of physics and bring a phone bomb, we should violate our own constitution. Great plan. What could possibly go wrong.
[QUOTE=GunFox;45318882]Won't work. Need a shaped charge and a method of attaching it to the door. You also somehow need to stop passengers and crew from noticing and stopping you. Also some method of remaining conscious when the pilots vent the cabin pressure and make everyone pass out while they use O2 masks. And then you need some method of stopping the passengers and crew from regaining control immediately after you breach the cockpit. And even if you manage all of that, the plane has long since squawked 7500 for a hijacking. If you fly anywhere near population centers, you are shot down. Easier to just bomb a bus or a train.[/QUOTE] Gut phone, fill with explosives to use for shaped charge. There you go. as for method of maintaining control, smuggle in a knife or 5. It is very possible. [URL="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/11/adam-savage-tsa-saw-my-junk-missed-12-razor-blades/"]Adam Savage walked through a TSA checkpoint with 12" razor blades.[/URL] And then the plane gets shot down. Terrorists win entire planeload of burger men are dead.
[QUOTE=Dermock;45318864]There are things far more important than the TSA that you 'murricans could cut to fund your education and healthcare. Like the unwinnable war against drugs Or the various literal wars the US is involved in Or tax cuts for big corps Seriously the TSA is so low on the "list of things that are a waste of US tax dollars" its barely on the list.[/QUOTE] Agreed, but irrelevant to the point, which was the money could be better spent elsewhere. Somehow planes weren't blowing up left and right when private security was tasked with airport protection. Likewise nobody was being molested and laws werent being violated. [editline]7th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Dermock;45318931]Gut phone, fill with explosives to use for shaped charge. There you go. as for method of maintaining control, smuggle in a knife or 5. It is very possible. [URL="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/11/adam-savage-tsa-saw-my-junk-missed-12-razor-blades/"]Adam Savage walked through a TSA checkpoint with 12" razor blades.[/URL] And then the plane gets shot down. Terrorists win entire planeload of burger men are dead.[/QUOTE] Shaped charges require a backing strong enough to direct the force of an explosion forward. They would be large, heavy, and likely require that you bolt them to the cabin door. You are going to use a knife to stop an entire plane of passengers who believe you will use the plane as a guided missile? Good luck with that.
[QUOTE=Dermock;45318864] Seriously the TSA is so low on the "list of things that are a waste of US tax dollars" its barely on the list.[/QUOTE] TSA is [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2010/11/22/do-body-scanners-make-us-safer/a-waste-of-money-and-time"]theater[/URL]. Too many people, including an Iranian civilian unintentionally slipped through with a handgun.
[QUOTE=GunFox;45318951] Shaped charges require a backing strong enough to direct the force of an explosion forward. They would be large, heavy, and likely require that you bolt them to the cabin door. [/QUOTE] I dont know enough about shaped charges to argue this point but seeing as you are a true american patriot I am assuming you know a lot about guns and military grade explosives and stuff. [QUOTE=GunFox;45318951] You are going to use a knife to stop an entire plane of passengers who believe you will use the plane as a guided missile? Good luck with that.[/QUOTE] Worked with 9/11 just saying
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45319005]TSA is [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2010/11/22/do-body-scanners-make-us-safer/a-waste-of-money-and-time"]theater[/URL]. Too many people, including an Iranian civilian unintentionally slipped through with a handgun.[/QUOTE] But to play devil's advocate, who's to say just because a few people manage to slip by undetected that it doesn't stop other valid cases? I agree with the point you're making, and I think we've definitely passed the point where the cost of airport security is outweighing its worth, but still. Can't assume because a few people slip something dangerous by that the whole system doesn't work.
[QUOTE=Dermock;45319008]I dont know enough about shaped charges to argue this point but seeing as you are a true american patriot I am assuming you know a lot about guns and military grade explosives and stuff.[/quote] You have lost and are now resorting to personal attacks. Classy. [quote]Worked with 9/11 just saying[/QUOTE] Except it didn't. People had no idea the plane was going to be used as a weapon. Until then you hijacked planes to take hostages, not obtain a missile. One of the planes even figured it out and regained control, but during the struggle crashed the plane. That trick only works once.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;45319005]TSA is [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2010/11/22/do-body-scanners-make-us-safer/a-waste-of-money-and-time"]theater[/URL]. Too many people, including an Iranian civilian unintentionally slipped through with a handgun.[/QUOTE] That's pretty nuts I'll admit. I've only been to the US of A via air 3 times and once I did actually see someone getting arrested. Still dont know what it was but I think someone was smuggling a weapon on. [QUOTE=Protocol7;45319064]But to play devil's advocate, who's to say just because a few people manage to slip by undetected that it doesn't stop other valid cases?[/QUOTE] This is also a good point. I imagine numerous terrorist operations or whatever have stopped purely because "well shit how do we get a weapon on to a plane if they have these scanners and sniffer dogs and shit?" [editline]7th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=GunFox;45319091]You have lost and are now resorting to personal attacks. Classy. [/QUOTE] I was more so referencing your long history of exactly that, both in username, posts and ideals in a bit of a satirical manner. Sorry I should of realized you of all people dont joke around :^(
[QUOTE=GunFox;45318808]I'd rather we spend the money on education. Or national healthcare. Or even the freeway system. All would be better uses of the money and would probably save more lives too.[/QUOTE] obviously the solution is to privatize the TSA. That way when they do a strip search on you, it doesn't violate your rights!
[QUOTE=Protocol7;45319064]But to play devil's advocate, who's to say just because a few people manage to slip by undetected that it doesn't stop other valid cases?[/QUOTE] Someone sneaking onto a plane with a gun undetected is the difference between major international terrorism, marking one of the very few strikes against US soil and continued flight operations. When you hear multiple reports of people (even from "enemy-designated" states) getting onto planes with guns beyond the realm of reasonable 'mistakes' then that means significant revaluations are required. The TSA is also largely ineffective partly due to their pathetic behavior analysis ("Look to assess people who are agitated, nervous, stressed and frustrated at an airport") I feel like they most likely had valid intentions for the TSA, but after truly understanding their ineffectiveness they decided to keep them for the theatrical effect. I genuinely don't believe the American Government relies on TSA one bit to prevent terrorism, the TSA is meant to be the last-failure-point filter that whatever prior NSA/DHS terrorism investigation could not successfully prevent in time.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;45319152]obviously the solution is to privatize the TSA. That way when they do a strip search on you, it doesn't violate your rights![/QUOTE] iirc the TSA is already privatized. Same goes for a lot of SWAT teams etc.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;45318562]Random people don't just carry around phone bombs every day. There is an intention to blow up a plane with a phone bomb, so they enacted counter phone bomb measures.[/QUOTE] Terrorist are probably going to start sticking explosives in their ass, the TSA better get started on that security ass-fucking check pretty soon.
[QUOTE=reedbo;45319725]Terrorist are probably going to start sticking explosives in their ass, the TSA better get started on that security ass-fucking check pretty soon.[/QUOTE] But the TSA already has their head up their own asses. I don't support the TSA, but if they are going to exist they might as well go with whatever information they have.
[QUOTE=surfur;45316219]Wait, why? what kind of threat does a dead phone have?[/QUOTE] The risk that the battery isn't a battery.. [editline]7th July 2014[/editline] Its no different to the "please drink your babies formula to prove its not a bomb" request. [editline]7th July 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Mattk50;45318124]ok, so if i forget to charge my phone before going to the airport it should be stolen from me or i should be forced to miss my flight? This is absurd, fearmongering bullshit. Just get rid of the tsa completely, this "security" does fuck all anyway.[/QUOTE] I dunno how its happening elsewhere but Heathrow airport (or was it BA, I cannot remember) have said that they will point people in the direction of a place to acquire a charger. Its not absurd or fearmongering. People have been claiming to be working on an undetectable bomb. As you may have noticed from the media in the last year or so the US is quite into intelligence so they probably do know something we don't know with regards to this...
[QUOTE=nikomo;45318010] I'd seriously rather visit fucking North Korea nowadays than the US.[/QUOTE] There are few things that annoy me more than entitled fools like yourself that go "Oh I need my phone charged to go on a plane because we need to ensure the saftey of hundreds of other people, what is this Nazi germany?". But to dare go and say that you would rather visit North Korea. A place where there are numerous prisons camps akin to Auschwitz. Do you have any shame?
[QUOTE=GunFox;45318685]Ignoring for a minute the fact that it is irrelevant what they plan to do, and violating the rights of the people is always unacceptable: How would you blow up a plane with a phone bomb? We will be generous and say you have a phone filled with plastic explosives. The entire thing. You somehow managed to fool the xray, the bomb sniffers, everything. How would you then, from the passenger compartment, blow the plane up?[/QUOTE] An improvised explosives expert in the UK created a very small plastic explosive (like fitting into a drinks bottle) for a demonstration. They blew a massive hole in the side of an (unpressuirsed) aircraft hull from a seat. Small explosives are a threat to aircraft and shouldn't be overlooked. Edit: Not even a drinks bottle, a 100ml container.
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