Bernie Sanders cut short after 'Black Lives Matter' takeover rally
192 replies, posted
I think what's happening is that these BLM protestors are being genuine, as in they aren't being paid by Sanders' opponents, and what they are doing is taking advantage of Sanders because they know Sanders sympathises with the movement, and they are using him to get air-time for their own movement. Which is EXACTLY what happened when Sanders allowed them on stage. Just think, at a Clinton rally they would never be allowed on stage, and they probably wouldn't be allowed in the crowd at all at some Republican rallies.
Sanders is showing weakness by allowing the BLM protestors to trample all over his rallies. The BLM protestors don't even care for Sanders, they know that he only has a slim chance at the Democrat nomination and an even-slimmer chance at the Presidency, they are only using him as a platform to spread their message.
[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;48412029]Calling them degenerates and morons doesn't really help anyone here. Yeah its rude to interrupt but that's how messages get out there. What do you expect them to do to get people to listen to a group the media largely ignores, politely hold picket boards up and shit?[/QUOTE]
What. The media doesn't ignore them. It's the exact opposite. Do we live in parallel universes? The media talks about the "Black lives matter" stuff literally ALL the time.
[QUOTE=Medevila;48413498]maybe the Sanders campaign could involve some African American staffers in a conversational role, where when this shit inevitably happens, they can talk to someone about the issues who they can't just dismiss as a white old man[/QUOTE]
Today actually the Sanders campaign chose a prominent Black woman as their press secretary
[QUOTE=Source;48413087]Black lives don't matter, all lives matter you stupid bunch of fuckers, when will you learn.[/QUOTE]
saying "all lives matter" is basically dismissive of the massive challenges that black people face in the united states, compared to their white counterparts
yes, of course, white people matter too dude, we get it, but whites didn't face two centuries of slavery, followed by another century of jim crow, along with decades of redlining, violent suppression by the authorities in the 60's and 70's, economic disenfranchisement by the gipper in the 80's, and racial profiling in the war on drugs ever since.
i don't believe in the liberal self-flagellation that comes standard with these sorts of protest movements, but christ, whenever a disenfranchised group tries to make people aware of the challenges they face, there are always truckloads of people from the majority (who are spared of those challenges, relatively) that stand up and shout "me too! me too! hey, pay attention to [I]me[/I], man! what about [I]me[/I]?"
it's as if they think that human rights are some kind of zero-sum game and that they're going to have their rights taken away from them and given to the minorities if they don't constantly remind the world of their existence.
ideally, should we tackle all forms of police brutality, regardless of the race of the victim? of course. but the effects are felt disproportionately by minorities, because of the racist legacy of this nation, and it's counterproductive to handwave the desire to correct that disproportionate balance merely because you don't think you're being paid enough attention to.
to do so is to basically attempt to de-legitimize the serious moral and ethical issue of racial inequality in the united states.
Holy shitfuck fuck in a bowl of fucks fuck this group
They came on to UW campus during a really crazy busy week and protested like idiots and blocked one of the main thoroughfares used to get to classes and for tranport to move around, delaying plenty of students from class and generally making idiots of themselves by walking all over the claiming the University Of Washington has diversity issues (nevermind that it tends to lead racial AND gender) diversity.
They blocked me from getting to one of my classes on time and when I tried to cut through the crowd they got all pissy and indignant, and acted generally like absolute children. It compromises any issues they may try to be serious about when they act so childish.
[editline]9th August 2015[/editline]
They are THE worst example of Seattle activism groups going too far and taking the social justice bit too far
[editline]9th August 2015[/editline]
after further research and reading this thread seems this group has no set leader- so it seems it was some student organized BLM movement which explains the clusterfuck and general tone of it. So not really the group as a whole.
[QUOTE=joes33431;48413643]saying "all lives matter" is basically dismissive of the massive challenges that black people face in the united states, compared to their white counterparts
yes, of course, white people matter too dude, we get it, but whites didn't face two centuries of slavery, followed by another century of jim crow, along with decades of redlining, violent suppression by the authorities in the 60's and 70's, economic disenfranchisement by the gipper in the 80's, and racial profiling in the war on drugs ever since.
i don't believe in the liberal self-flagellation that comes standard with these sorts of protest movements, but christ, whenever a disenfranchised group tries to make people aware of the challenges they face, there are always truckloads of people from the majority (who are spared of those challenges, relatively) that stand up and shout "me too! me too! hey, pay attention to [I]me[/I], man! what about [I]me[/I]?"
it's as if they think that human rights are some kind of zero-sum game and that they're going to have their rights taken away from them and given to the minorities if they don't constantly remind the world of their existence.
ideally, should we tackle all forms of police brutality, regardless of the race of the victim? of course. but the effects are felt disproportionately by minorities, because of the racist legacy of this nation, and it's counterproductive to handwave the desire to correct that disproportionate balance merely because you don't think you're being paid enough attention to.
to do so is to basically attempt to de-legitimize the serious moral and ethical issue of racial inequality in the united states.[/QUOTE]
If anything, yelling #blacklivesmatter throughout the waves and the atmosphere will only serve to strengthen resentment between races, and further drive equality to the gutter.
[QUOTE=paindoc;48413686]Holy shitfuck fuck in a bowl of fucks fuck this group
They came on to UW campus during a really crazy busy week and protested like idiots and blocked one of the main thoroughfares used to get to classes and for tranport to move around, delaying plenty of students from class and generally making idiots of themselves by walking all over the claiming the University Of Washington has diversity issues (nevermind that it tends to lead racial AND gender) diversity.
They blocked me from getting to one of my classes on time and when I tried to cut through the crowd they got all pissy and indignant, and acted generally like absolute children. It compromises any issues they may try to be serious about when they act so childish.
[editline]9th August 2015[/editline]
They are THE worst example of Seattle activism groups going too far and taking the social justice bit too far
[editline]9th August 2015[/editline]
after further research and reading this thread seems this group has no set leader- so it seems it was some student organized BLM movement which explains the clusterfuck and general tone of it. So not really the group as a whole.[/QUOTE]
inconveniencing people is part of protesting
like do you think the white folks on the rosa parks bus were totally okay with her doing what she did? nah, it was an inconvenience, they likely thought the same shit, dumb person not just going to her seat, what a tool, kick her off the bus, etc.
again, FP has this weird idea that protests shouldn't inconvenience anyone. that's laughably wrong - that's 90% of what protests are. it brings attention to these issues.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48413745]inconveniencing people is part of protesting
like do you think the white folks on the rosa parks bus were totally okay with her doing what she did? nah, it was an inconvenience, they likely thought the same shit, dumb person not just going to her seat, what a tool, kick her off the bus, etc.
again, FP has this weird idea that protests shouldn't inconvenience anyone. that's laughably wrong - that's 90% of what protests are. it brings attention to these issues.[/QUOTE]
But they're interrupting a speech from the one candidate who actually represents their views, why are they protesting against someone who [I]agrees[/I] with them?
[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;48413753]But they're interrupting a speech from the one candidate who actually represents their views, why are they protesting against someone who [I]agrees[/I] with them?[/QUOTE]
because some people are dumb
expecting 100% of all protesters to 100% understand 100% of what they're protesting about is unrealistic - this same sort of shit happened during the civil rights movement.
[QUOTE=BigJoeyLemons;48413753]But they're interrupting a speech from the one candidate who actually represents their views, why are they protesting against someone who [I]agrees[/I] with them?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48413495]I think what's happening is that these BLM protestors are being genuine, as in they aren't being paid by Sanders' opponents, and what they are doing is taking advantage of Sanders because they know Sanders sympathises with the movement, and they are using him to get air-time for their own movement. Which is EXACTLY what happened when Sanders allowed them on stage. Just think, at a Clinton rally they would never be allowed on stage, and they probably wouldn't be allowed in the crowd at all at some Republican rallies.
Sanders is showing weakness by allowing the BLM protestors to trample all over his rallies. The BLM protestors don't even care for Sanders, they know that he only has a slim chance at the Democrat nomination and an even-slimmer chance at the Presidency, they are only using him as a platform to spread their message.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48413759]because some people are dumb
expecting 100% of all protesters to 100% understand 100% of what they're protesting about is unrealistic - this same sort of shit happened during the civil rights movement.[/QUOTE]
The fact that it's unrealistic for adults to understand what they're actively going out and doing is embarrassingly worrying.
[editline]9th August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;48413495]I think what's happening is that these BLM protestors are being genuine, as in they aren't being paid by Sanders' opponents, and what they are doing is taking advantage of Sanders because they know Sanders sympathises with the movement, and they are using him to get air-time for their own movement. Which is EXACTLY what happened when Sanders allowed them on stage. Just think, at a Clinton rally they would never be allowed on stage, and they probably wouldn't be allowed in the crowd at all at some Republican rallies.
Sanders is showing weakness by allowing the BLM protestors to trample all over his rallies. The BLM protestors don't even care for Sanders, they know that he only has a slim chance at the Democrat nomination and an even-slimmer chance at the Presidency, they are only using him as a platform to spread their message.[/QUOTE]
They wouldn't be at a Hillary rally because her billionaire buddy is the one funding the entire movement.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48413745]inconveniencing people is part of protesting
like do you think the white folks on the rosa parks bus were totally okay with her doing what she did? nah, it was an inconvenience, they likely thought the same shit, dumb person not just going to her seat, what a tool, kick her off the bus, etc.
again, FP has this weird idea that protests shouldn't inconvenience anyone. that's laughably wrong - that's 90% of what protests are. it brings attention to these issues.[/QUOTE]
protesting BLM at university of washington is not at all like rosa parks. see, the key thing you're missing is that rosa parks was inconveniencing the right people, as in the people actively oppressing her. these people protesting in UW is like having a gay rights protest outside of a gay bar. everyone you're inconveniencing probably already agrees with you.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;48414050]protesting BLM at university of washington is not at all like rosa parks. see, the key thing you're missing is that rosa parks was inconveniencing the right people, as in the people actively oppressing her. these people protesting in UW is like having a gay rights protest outside of a gay bar. everyone you're inconveniencing probably already agrees with you.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Any university is liberal as fuck already, but the University of Washington particularly? It's fucking Seattle.
personally, i think people who protest for progressive policies at universities are posers. you're just preaching to the choir to make yourself feel like you're doing something. take the protest to the streets or in front of governmental buildings if you want to have a real effect
[editline]8th August 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Velocet;48414061]Exactly. Any university is liberal as fuck already, but the University of Washington particularly? It's fucking Seattle.[/QUOTE]
it would make a bit more sense for them to protest at WSU
Good to hear. And yeah, my main gripe was with the fact that so many of us already understand the issues. When really rabid anti-gay protesters came to our campus and started protesting and saying generally vile offensive things in our biggest plaza area, a group of random students and faculty and a large amount of another christian activist group showed up to surround the bad protesters.
They were unable to really get out, and the new friendly group had really kind posters and placards saying "This is not our god, this is not what we want to stand for" etc. It was pretty great to see, and it was on a really busy day where tons of families and groups of young children were there for a special event. You could no longer hear or see the mean/rude group and it just worked out so great and nice
The acclaimed "BLM" protesters at UW were just not very kind, and were not cooperative at all with police when they asked them to tone down the language slightly and at least allow pedestrians to get through. They all approached very kindly and asked very simply for them to do all this and they didn't seem willing to cooperate.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;48414231][url=https://np.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/3gadni/seattle_afternoon_rally_blacklivesmatter/ctwc29h]This wasn't BLM[/url][/QUOTE]
[url]https://www.facebook.com/BLMSeattle/posts/716844418437393[/url]
It seems like a schism in the movement but yeah, it was BLM.
I would hope some of the posters here would understand the danger of guilt by association. It's important to distinguish the different between the actions of a small number of people to that of a larger social movement.
I will say BLM is [I]totally[/I] in the right to bring up the problems with abuse of force by SPD, they are known for having problems. But I don't think is the method or way to do it, going to Bernie Sanders for this stuff is the same as going to UW for this shit, it involves a vast misinterpretation or distortion of how it is.
Protesting at WSU or outside of King County as students dealing with racial discrimination? Please. Do it. My hometown (Spokane) is ridiculously vanilla and homogeneous like this and can be a not so great place to be anything but a WASP at times, especially if you hit up the local smaller farming towns like Deer Park. There were maybe a dozen asian kids in my HS, about 5-6 black kids, and maybe 100 hispanic kids (farming towns and ranches nearby means the hispanic demographic have been growing in eastern WA). Out of a 1200 person student body. I mean, honestly;
[QUOTE]The racial makeup of the city was 86.7% White, 2.29% African American, 2.0% Native American, 2.6% Asian, and 0.6% Pacific Islander, along with 1.3% from other races and 4.6% from two or more races. Hispanics and Latinos of any race were 5.0% of the population.[/QUOTE]
And thats one of the biggest cities in Washington.
Attacking just about any of the current Republican presidential candidates would be a fairly safe bet, hell Jeb Bush has a pretty shitty voting history on civil rights issues as a whole and it would be a fair demonstration to make. But Bernie has a consistently forward voting history, and UW has a consistently forward way of thinking.
And I still think SPD should be the object of inquiry and thought here. It just seems silly to me and like a wasted chance to draw attention to issues, most people are going to use this experience to completely debase any merit the movement may have and think lesser of the protesting types. And inevitably I will get to hear at my dinner table, when I go back home in about a month, about how the damn tree huggers, gays, and blacks in Seattle are going to capture the damn vote and ruin it for everyone.
So sorry if I come across as biased or rude or seem to lack understanding, I'm from an environment thats not so pro-civil rights and I'm still working pretty hard on fighting those biases and thoughts!
[QUOTE=Zyler;48414294]I would hope some of the posters here would understand the danger of guilt by association. It's important to distinguish the different between the actions of a small number of people to that of a larger social movement.[/QUOTE]
A leaderless movement is always going to have "bad apples". However, based on the experience from GamerGate, when people were harassing Zoe Quinn/Anita Sarkeesian, the overwhelming majority were saying "it wasn't us" and distancing themselves as much as they could. Same thing happened at Occupy Wall Street, crazy shit happened and everyone condemned it.
Your statement would apply if the overwhelming majority of BLM supporters were condemning their actions. I haven't seen that at all. I just see people defending it saying "BERNIE SANDERS CAN'T RIDE ON THE "I WALKED WITH MARTIN LUTHER KING JR DURING THE 60S TRAIN FOREVER"
[b]These people co-opt legitimate causes and shit them up with their nonsense. It is the responsibility of everyone else to distance themselves away from it, and if they don't do that, then I suppose they support it.[/b]
UW's demographic makeup of black students is only 0.18% below the state demographic level as a whole, the asian demographic is 14% above state levels, and the white enrollment level is nearly 25% below state demographic levels. Other groups are about par for the course, either on the money for Washington or [I]just[/I] below.
Hell, even WSU seems to have a fair amount of Diversity with only the asian student enrollment falling far below the state average.
[editline]9th August 2015[/editline]
oh god I should have just edited
[QUOTE=Velocet;48414321]A leaderless movement is always going to have "bad apples". However, based on the experience from GamerGate, when people were harassing Zoe Quinn/Anita Sarkeesian, the overwhelming majority were saying "it wasn't us" and distancing themselves as much as they could. Same thing happened at Occupy Wall Street, crazy shit happened and everyone condemned it.
Your statement would apply if the overwhelming majority of BLM supporters were condemning their actions. I haven't seen that at all. I just see people defending it saying "BERNIE SANDERS CAN'T RIDE ON THE "I WALKED WITH MARTIN LUTHER KING JR DURING THE 60S TRAIN FOREVER"
[b]These people co-opt legitimate causes and shit them up with their nonsense. It is the responsibility of everyone else to distance themselves away from it, and if they don't do that, then I suppose they support it.[/b][/QUOTE]
I don't really think Twitter users are a good representative of anybody but the most extreme parts of any social movement. Twitter allows a vocal minority to seem much bigger than they actually are, and the vast majority of people within a movement probably either don't use twitter or don't post about what movements they are attached to.
[QUOTE=Zyler;48414360]I don't really think Twitter users are a good representative of anybody but the most extreme parts of any social movement. Twitter allows a vocal minority to seem much bigger than they actually are, and the vast majority of people within a movement probably either don't use twitter or don't post about what movements they are attached to.[/QUOTE]
Black Lives Matter is a movement that thrives and depends on social media, but in this case, for every one of these people spewing their bile on Twitter, there's three more that believe the same exact things, and even if they don't, they'll hear "there's a protest right near you! Come and join me" and run out the door without a second thought because it gives these vapid people the opportunity to take selfies and post them on Facebook to show their friends how ~progressive~ they are.
If BLM truly wanted to distance themselves from these people, they'd be doing it, especially the vocal minority of people that actually talk about this on Twitter. They're not.
[QUOTE=Velocet;48414399]Black Lives Matter is a movement that thrives and depends on social media, but in this case, for every one of these people spewing their bile on Twitter, there's three more that believe the same exact things, and even if they don't, they'll hear "there's a protest right near you! Come and join me" and run out the door without a second thought because it gives these vapid people the opportunity to take selfies and post them on Facebook to show their friends how ~progressive~ they are.[/QUOTE]
I can't really tell you whether that's true or not because there's no way to tell. I guess it's a matter of the perspective of whom you consider to be a part of the movement, and more specifically what you consider the movement to be. If you consider it to just be a twitter hashtag or a social media-based movement then yea, I can understand what you mean.
If there's some kind of real world component to it outside of people communicating with each other on twitter and telling each other to go check something out then maybe there's something we aren't seeing. Otherwise, you're probably correct in surmising that it's just a bit of an unorganized mess, yea.
The problem is Twitter is not a good place to organize this kind of thing, every other successful twitter campaign was backed up by some other form of communication between its members; like an IRC or a subreddit or regular real-world meetings. Without that backbone, there's no way of organizing discussion or dispensing information that doesn't get clouded by each person's individual twitter feed.
[QUOTE=Velocet;48414399]
If BLM truly wanted to distance themselves from these people, they'd be doing it, especially the vocal minority of people that actually talk about this on Twitter. They're not.[/QUOTE]
They are distancing themselves, at least some people are. The problem is we don't know how much of the overall group those people represent, which is why social media is not a good indication of this sort of thing.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/FlP92Ot.jpg[/IMG]
Powerful picture of this progressive movement.
[QUOTE=Ivef;48414564][t]https://i.imgur.com/FlP92Ot.jpg[/t]
Powerful picture of this progressive movement.[/QUOTE]
This photo is so fucking sad. Here's this guy who has fought for this woman's rights before she was even a thought, and now she's screaming in his face.
Well I was having a pretty sad day, then it got better, but this drags it back down a bit :(
Bernie's biggest "flaw" (using the term very loosely here) is that he's old and white, so he's straight up a monster in the eyes of the radical progressive groups, no matter what he says or does.
He doesn't have the superficial, gimmicky advantage, like being a woman or being black, to get people's votes, which sucks because he'd really be the best president the US would have had in a long while.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;48413745]inconveniencing people is part of protesting
like do you think the white folks on the rosa parks bus were totally okay with her doing what she did? nah, it was an inconvenience, they likely thought the same shit, dumb person not just going to her seat, what a tool, kick her off the bus, etc.
again, FP has this weird idea that protests shouldn't inconvenience anyone. that's laughably wrong - that's 90% of what protests are. it brings attention to these issues.[/QUOTE]
Comparing Black Lives Matter blocking an university to what Rosa Parks was up to is hilariously disrespectful to Rosa Parks and the whole movement back then. You perfectly fail to understand what's up, just like the BLM people. The situation is completely different in both the social status of the protesters as well as the way information flows through the public. BLM is alienating the very demographics that would be first in the line to support them (both university kids and Bernie Sanders rally attendees).
If BLM had some balls, they would go protest the police stations harbouring demonstrably racist policemen, for instance. Protest the politicians who are clearly racist and disrespectful. Protest a damn NASCAR race when it comes to it. Protesting innocent students or a rally of the politician most supportive of them is stupidity and a disgrace.
[QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;48412029]Calling them degenerates and morons doesn't really help anyone here. Yeah its rude to interrupt but that's how messages get out there. What do you expect them to do to get people to listen to a group the media largely ignores, politely hold picket boards up and shit?[/QUOTE]
protest at someone who doesnt already agree there's a race problem's rally? This is hurting their own cause, sanders is pretty much the closest candidate to their ideals thats currently running.
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