[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26732428]It is treason, at least in Canada.[/QUOTE]
. . .
And?
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;26732396]He released the video of the Helicopter pilots shooting the reporters, leaked the Afghan war documents, along with several thousand more documents, all of which were classified.
Treason:
1. the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2. a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
[b]3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.[/b][/QUOTE]
Even if it is against any laws, he still didn't get a trial or anything.
And if you ask me, he did well in what he did. He revealed what the ,ilitary did wrong and if anything, he enlightened those who trusted the ideals of the US, not break said trust.
[QUOTE=Meep Moop;26732146]The treatment is nothing different then the treatment given to thousands of other inmates, and he did commit treason...[/QUOTE]
There is something wrong with the laws of a country, when reporting the truth becomes a treasonous act.
If I worked in the military, and saw the collateral murder video, I would've leaked it as well.
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;26732396]He released the video of the [b]Helicopter pilots shooting the reporters, leaked the Afghan war documents, along with several thousand more documents, all of which were classified. [/b]
Treason:
1. the offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2. a violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
[B]3. the betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.
[/B]
I don't have a basement.[/QUOTE]
Well I'm glad you trust the Military to shoot reporters then.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;26732437]. . .
And?[/QUOTE]
The US probably has similar laws, so it is treason.
Infact they do, interpret this how you will:
[quote]Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. [/quote]
If he were to be convicted, it would be of treason.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26732428]It is treason, at least in Canada.[/QUOTE]
Who the fuck cares.
Hitler made laws against Jewish people, obviously anyone who didn't follow them back in the days got what he deserved since it was treason, right?
Right guys? I am right in blindly following what the law gives me because it is easier than having my own morale standards, RIGHT?
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26732455]The US probably has similar laws, so it is treason.
Infact they do, interpret this how you will:
If he were to be convicted, it would be of treason.[/QUOTE]
My god.
Sloppy_Joes, that was quite possibly the worst argument you have ever made. "It's illegal in Canada, so it's probably illegal in the US."
Well played sir. Well played.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26732455]The US probably has similar laws, so it is treason.
Infact they do, interpret this how you will:
If he were to be convicted, it would be of treason.[/QUOTE]
lol nice snip
[quote]no Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Killuah;26732469]Who the fuck cares.
Hitler made laws against Jewish people, obviously anyone who didn't follow them back in the days got what he deserved since it was treason, right?
Right guys? I am right in blindly following what the law gives me because it is easier than having my own morale standards, RIGHT?[/QUOTE]
This shows that if he were to be convicted, it would be of treason.
I'm giving an unbiased source and defining treason and you're bitching because the definition disagrees with you.
[editline]16th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=the dopest;26732487]lol nice snip[/QUOTE]
Read the next sentence after the quote :rolleyes:
What are you people trying to say by justifying the actions of the state because of these 'breached' classified documents. Have you fucking [b]seen[/b] them? I don't care that he broke a major law to show the world what's going on, because either you're staring at reality in the face of your computer monitoring showing you war crimes, or you're sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming: "CRIME AGAINST THE STATE."
Like come on! The guy isn't a ruthless serial killer that beheads women and then fucks their corpses, why is the punishment equatable to the kind of slime that do dangerous crimes? Why can't he call up his worried mother and father and tell them that he's okay, and that he isn't having his thumbnails ripped out by the nazi scum employed by the american government?
Okay, keep telling yourself that there isn't a fucking problem here, keep saying that he's just one guy of a thousand who are having this happen.
Even if illegal.
HE DID THE RIGHT THING
[QUOTE=Killuah;26732508]Even if illegal.
HE DID THE RIGHT THING[/QUOTE]
Morality and legality are different things, don't get them confused.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26732506]What are you people trying to say by justifying the actions of the state because of these 'breached' classified documents. Have you fucking [b]seen[/b] them? I don't care that he broke a major law to show the world what's going on, because either you're staring at reality in the face of your computer monitoring showing you war crimes, or you're sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming: "CRIME AGAINST THE STATE."
Like come on! The guy isn't a ruthless serial killer that beheads women and then fucks their corpses, why is the punishment equatable to the kind of slime that do dangerous crimes? Why can't he call up his worried mother and father and tell them that he's okay, and that he isn't having his thumbnails ripped out by the nazi scum employed by the american government?
Okay, keep telling yourself that there isn't a fucking problem here, keep saying that he's just one guy of a thousand who are having this happen.[/QUOTE]
You're arguing with two of the thickest people on Facepunch. I really don't see why you're putting so much effort into this.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26732493]This shows that if he were to be convicted, it would be of treason.
I'm giving an unbiased source and defining treason and you're bitching because the definition disagrees with you.
[editline]16th December 2010[/editline]
Read the next sentence after the quote :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Have your definition.
It's still stupid to think he did something wrong.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26732433]Well let's pretend that the helicopter didn't shoot the reporters, then. Throw it under the table.
These sycophantic freaks thinking "HEY HE BROKE LAWS SO HE GOT WHAT HE DESERVED" aren't understanding that their actions are kind of coming from a good cause.. I think a video showing unnecessary violence, regardless of 'classification' is bullshit.
Just because the government pastes a 'classified' sticker on a video of their soldiers doing something [b]wrong[/b] doesn't mean the leaker/perpetrator is doing something punishable-- in my eyes atleast. Fuck those bullshit laws.[/QUOTE]
What he did may be good, but he violated the law. When you violate the law, you will be punished. And once again, this is lawful detainment, he is a flight risk, and he has been charged. Not having sheets or pillows, on the other hand....
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;26732431]haha
are you actually trying to trump the constitution with websters dictionary[/QUOTE]
Article III, Section 3:
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court."
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26732514]Morality and legality are different things, don't get them confused.[/QUOTE]
That's the biggest problem. We have a 'legal' system, not a 'justice' system.
Let's all get off this fucking rock and go live on mars, we can leave all the old fucks with their traditional values behind, and become the cyborg civilization we were always meant to become.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26732514]Morality and legality are different things, don't get them confused.[/QUOTE]
I don't. That's why I said he did the right thing.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26732506]What are you people trying to say by justifying the actions of the state because of these 'breached' classified documents. Have you fucking [b]seen[/b] them? I don't care that he broke a major law to show the world what's going on, because either you're staring at reality in the face of your computer monitoring showing you war crimes, or you're sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming: "CRIME AGAINST THE STATE."
Like come on! The guy isn't a ruthless serial killer that beheads women and then fucks their corpses, why is the punishment equatable to the kind of slime that do dangerous crimes? Why can't he call up his worried mother and father and tell them that he's okay, and that he isn't having his thumbnails ripped out by the nazi scum employed by the american government?
Okay, keep telling yourself that there isn't a fucking problem here, keep saying that he's just one guy of a thousand who are having this happen.[/QUOTE]
You guys go about saying "he's not committing treason" and when I prove you wrong you backpedal and say that I'm defending the actions of the state.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26732428]It is treason, at least in Canada.[/QUOTE]
Cool!
Not in the U.S. though.
[QUOTE=Meep Moop;26732383]Giving thousands of classified documents to the entire world (including enemies) no longer counts as giving them aid?[/QUOTE]
Yes, because he secretly delivered it directly to North Korea, it became public information, that's like saying a libraries are treasonous because an Al-Qaeda operative used a book on flying planes from it to plot an attack. And even if, lets try reading the whole quote...
[quote]The Constitution of the United States, Art. III, defines treason against the United States to consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid or comfort. This offence is punished with death. [b]By the same article of the Constitution, no person shall be convicted of treason, unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.[b][/quote]
So unless he confesses in court, or two people were there and watched him leak the documents, nothing treasonous has occurred.
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;26732522]When you violate the law, you will be punished. And once again, this is lawful detainment, he is a flight risk, and he has been charged.[/QUOTE]
Okay. So what? Who gives a shit if he violated the law? Obviously there's some exceptions and changes that clearly need to be made. Lets keep that fucker on lockdown, just in case he wants to do a bicep curl and keep his body in shape, seeing as that is the only thing he can look at anyways, besides his concrete fucking box.
If they want to imprison him for being charged (Which is, in my mind, bullshit.. I've been charged before, its pretty much just an accusation that allows authority to piss all over you.) they should atleast allow him some basic necessities for a functional life.. Some sheets, perhaps a mattress, a telephone to speak with his [b]family[/b], the people who brought him into this world.
You don't have to be 'angsty' and 'edgy' to want to shout out and beat the living shit out of someone sometimes.
You're right. Fuck authority.
[QUOTE=Killuah;26732520]Have your definition.
It's still stupid to think he did something wrong.[/QUOTE]
Under the eyes of the law, if it were to be proven, what he did would be called treason.
THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING.
I do not agree that he should be placed in solitary confinement.
[editline]16th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Starpluck;26732541]Cool!
Not in the U.S. though.[/QUOTE]
Besides the fact I prove that later I'm saying the guy that you quoted might be from Canada, so it's treason here.
[editline]16th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;26732482]My god.
Sloppy_Joes, that was quite possibly the worst argument you have ever made. "It's illegal in Canada, so it's probably illegal in the US."
Well played sir. Well played.[/QUOTE]
It is illegal in the states :rolleyes: A lot of countries have similar laws when it comes to these things.
How can we as Americans sleep at night knowing this is happening to another human being?
And don't you [B]dare[/B] give me that "hurr he leaked documents he's less than human :downs:" bullshit. Holding this man against his will without conviction goes against everything we're supposed to stand for. Guilty or not (and let me remind you that he has yet to be convicted of [B]any[/B] crime whatsoever), he doesn't deserve to be treated like this.
[QUOTE=DarkSpider;26732526]Let's all get off this fucking rock and go live on mars, we can leave all the old fucks with their traditional values behind, and become the cyborg civilization we were always meant to become.[/QUOTE]
lol wtf. Where did that come from
[QUOTE=TwinkieHouse;26732590]How can we as Americans sleep at night knowing this is happening to another human being?
And don't you [B]dare[/B] give me that "hurr he leaked documents he's less than human :downs:" bullshit. Holding this man against his will without conviction goes against everything we're supposed to stand for. Guilty or not (and let me remind you that he has yet to be convicted of [B]any[/B] crime whatsoever), he doesn't deserve to be treated like this.[/QUOTE]
hahahaha
because the united states stands for something
[QUOTE=TwinkieHouse;26732590]How can we as Americans sleep at night knowing this is happening to another human being?
.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, our modern life shits and pisses all over the people that do our dirty work (Child labour, so on and so forth.
Replace 'human being' with army private and American citizen. (who committed a non violent crime.)
He might as well have gone on a rampage and killed a shitload of innocent people while he's at it, because as far as I can see, he'd be in the same fucking place.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26732045]He's in solitary confinement, he's not being tortured.
As terrible as that is, misleading title.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;26732067]Yep, definite torture. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Meep Moop;26732146]The treatment is nothing different then the treatment given to thousands of other inmates, and he did commit treason...[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.law.wustl.edu/Journal/22/p325Grassian.pdf]Psychiatric Effects of Solitary Confinement[/url]
Read that, and then tell me that Solitary Confinement is not torture.
[quote]Problems with Impulse Control: Slightly less than half of the
prisoners reported episodes of loss of impulse control with random
violence: “I snap off the handle over absolutely nothing. Have torn up
mail and pictures, throw things around. Try to control it. Know it
only hurts myself.” Several of these prisoners reported impulsive
self-mutilation; [b]“I cut my wrists many times in isolation. Now it
seems crazy. But every time I did it, I wasn’t thinking—lost
control—cut myself without knowing what I was doing.”[/b]
[b]This Syndrome has the Characteristics of an Acute Organic Brain Syndrome—A Delirium[/b]
During the course of my involvement as an expert I have had the
opportunity to evaluate the psychiatric effects of solitary confinement
in well over two hundred prisoners in various state and federal
penitentiaries. [b]I have observed that, for many of the inmates so
housed, incarceration in solitary caused either severe exacerbation or
recurrence of preexisting illness, or the appearance of an acute mental
illness in individuals who had previously been free of any such
illnes[/b][/quote]
It might be treason by how the law or the military or whoever defines it.
But not in my book.
He did a very patriotic thing in my eyes. Revealing what is wrong with the country and thus provoce discussion and change is one of the most patriotic things you can do in my book.
This man is a fucking hero. An because some old military farts think their actions and decisions may be revealed as wrong now he has to endure psychologic torture.
[QUOTE=Taishu;26732441]There is something wrong with the laws of a country, when reporting the truth becomes a treasonous act.[/QUOTE]
I hate when people skew metaphors so far that they don't even apply to the subject.
He was a breach in security, if he was leaking documents in his spare time imagine what he might do if someone paid for certain information.
I'll say this once more.
[B]A Totally transparent government, DOES NOT, work.[/B]
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