Four Chicago teens in custody after livestreaming kidnap and torture of disabled person
447 replies, posted
Did you ever consider you were the one doing the assuming considering you have no evidence to back up what your saying, as opposed to the mountain of video/social media evidence on the other side?
I hope they throw the book at these disgusting fuckers and it sticks.
People like this will never contribute anything of use to anyone to our society and should be removed from it for as long as legally possible.
e: I'd be surprised if the lot of them have a combined IQ of 100
[QUOTE=Tudd;51629433]Did you ever consider you were the one doing the assuming considering you have no evidence to back up what your saying, as opposed to the mountain of video/social media evidence on the other side?[/QUOTE]
Yes it's entirely possible I'm wrong about something, I honestly have no pride to swallow here, yes, I could be wrong about that, at this moment I don't believe I am wrong, but it's totally possible.
Yes, they said racist things. Yes, they're horrible people. But we don't know why serial killers or homicidal maniacs or psychopaths or whatever they are do what they do. I don't. If you do, you might want to share that with the world at large as that would be an important insight into how these people work. Because I'm not ready to say factually with 100% certainty that this is what you say it is, if that makes me a monster, or a patronizer of black people, then I really have to say a lot of that is on you guys and not me but you'd say it's on me, so who knows.
People with mental illness, people with clear mental impairments and judgement issues aren't as easily understood as you say they are so I'm not sure why I'm getting lambasted for questioning their motives when I still 100% believe they're guilty of a heinous and terrible crime. You guys are still acting like what I'm saying is they're saints. I'm not.
In these cases, looking that deep into their motives doesn't matter. There is nothing that can justify this attack and knowing their motive other than what's obvious doesn't matter. People are still arguing about the motive of various serial killers but to the law, motive only matters up to a certain point.
[QUOTE=UziXxX;51629538]I hope they throw the book at these disgusting fuckers and it sticks.
People like this will never contribute anything of use to anyone to our society and should be removed from it for as long as legally possible.
e: I'd be surprised if the lot of them have a combined IQ of 100[/QUOTE]
I don't think I saw it posted here yet (could have been quickly buried under this fucking useless semantics argument) but there's an update on the charges
[url]http://tribunist.com/news/breaking-decision-was-just-made-on-whether-to-charge-anti-trump-torturers-with-hate-crime/?utm_source=CDH[/url]
don't know this source but they're just parroting the news coming in and it's all I've spotted so far. tl;dr
- bernie made a statement about it not being a hate crime because if it were over political meaning instead of race/disability, that doesn't fall under the right terminology, though it's no less of a crime. So, under law, anti-trump isn't a hate crime by definition, but simply a politically motivated crime and charged with all the other things that go along with the actions, simply without the additional hate crime charge tacked on
- due to the fact they likely picked him out as a target because he not only was pro trump but also white and an easy target with his disability, it's being charged as a hate crime under local/state ordinances, along with the other charges related to what they did, IE kidnapping, assault with a weapon, posession of illegal substances, etc
[t]http://tribunist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Image-097.png[/t]
[QUOTE=Fire Kracker;51629137]as someone with a disabled sibling i would fucking hunt down anyone who would do this to my sibling and cap their damn knees and leave them in the streets if i could
there's no rehabilitating these people[/QUOTE]
I don't know my brother's disabled and I think rehabilitation is still worth a shot.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51629540]Yes it's entirely possible I'm wrong about something, I honestly have no pride to swallow here, yes, I could be wrong about that, at this moment I don't believe I am wrong, but it's totally possible.
Yes, they said racist things. Yes, they're horrible people. But we don't know why serial killers or homicidal maniacs or psychopaths or whatever they are do what they do. I don't. If you do, you might want to share that with the world at large as that would be an important insight into how these people work. Because I'm not ready to say factually with 100% certainty that this is what you say it is, if that makes me a monster, or a patronizer of black people, then I really have to say a lot of that is on you guys and not me but you'd say it's on me, so who knows.
People with mental illness, people with clear mental impairments and judgement issues aren't as easily understood as you say they are so I'm not sure why I'm getting lambasted for questioning their motives when I still 100% believe they're guilty of a heinous and terrible crime. You guys are still acting like what I'm saying is they're saints. I'm not.[/QUOTE]
I gotta say your first bit started off strong and I can agree to a certain extent.
But then you used the bullshit "people with mental illness aren't easily understood" cop out to cover your ass on how wrong you might be.
Way to make yet another highly speculative and zero-proof assertion that 4 seperate people have mental illnesses and thus you could never fully understand their motives.
That might one of the most painful thread titles I've ever read.
I hope torturing him was worth the probable 40+ years in MCC Chicago. Good job.
Apparently the white kid knew one of the black kids as an acquaintance and the two were going to have a overnight get together. The black kids brought the white kid in a stolen van to his friends and a "play fight" escalated to a racially and politically fuel torture fest that was only broken up after a neighbor complained about the noise.
It's great violent racists are dumb enough to broadcast damning evidence to all the world, though. Makes it easier to lock them up.
[QUOTE=dai;51629607]I don't think I saw it posted here yet (could have been quickly buried under this fucking useless semantics argument) but there's an update on the charges
[url]http://tribunist.com/news/breaking-decision-was-just-made-on-whether-to-charge-anti-trump-torturers-with-hate-crime/?utm_source=CDH[/url]
don't know this source but they're just parroting the news coming in and it's all I've spotted so far. tl;dr
- [B]bernie made a statement about it not being a hate crime[/B] because if it were over political meaning instead of race/disability, that doesn't fall under the right terminology, though it's no less of a crime. So, under law, anti-trump isn't a hate crime by definition, but simply a politically motivated crime and charged with all the other things that go along with the actions, simply without the additional hate crime charge tacked on
- due to the fact they likely picked him out as a target because he not only was pro trump but also white and an easy target with his disability, it's being charged as a hate crime under local/state ordinances, along with the other charges related to what they did, IE kidnapping, assault with a weapon, posession of illegal substances, etc[/QUOTE]
I feel like every week Bernie says something stupid and pushes me further and further away. I liked him for being honest and passionate, but ever since his cowtowing to Clinton after the primary fiasco I've been losing the bern, hard.
[QUOTE=OvB;51629750]after a neighbor complained about the noise.[/QUOTE]
It didn't end there. Enraged at the downstairs neighbor, the girls went down, kicked the door in, and stole shit. The commotion then allowed the kid to escape and get spotted by a LEO.
[quote]a crime motivated by racial, sexual, or other prejudice, typically one involving violence.[/quote]
That is the definition of a hate crime.
The criteria for a hate crime via criminal standards is as follows
[quote]Bias motivations can be broadly defined as preconceived negative opinions, stereotypical assumptions, intolerance or hatred directed to a particular group that shares a common characteristic, such as race, ethnicity, language, religion, nationality, sexual orientation, gender or any other fundamental characteristic. People with disabilities may also be victims of hate crimes.
Hate crimes can include threats, property damage, assault, murder or any other criminal offence committed with a bias motivation. Hate crimes don't only affect individuals from specific groups. People or property merely associated with – or even perceived to be a member of – a group that shares a protected characteristic, such as human rights defenders, community centres or places of worship, can also be targets of hate crimes.
[/quote]
Victim is white - check
Victim is disabled - check
Victim was targeted for being both - check
Offenders made racist statements and racist remarks - check
Offenders made statements about perceived group membership - check
This crime meet both criteria. All four people are fucking scumbags and committed a hate crime.
I promise you guys if the offenders were white and the victim was black this debate wouldn't even be happening.
If people want race relations to get better then you need to hold accountable anyone who commits racist acts regardless of whom they are.
[QUOTE=-nesto-;51629909]It didn't end there. Enraged at the downstairs neighbor, the girls went down, kicked the door in, and stole shit. The commotion then allowed the kid to escape and get spotted by a LEO.[/QUOTE]
Upstanding citizens.
[editline]5th January 2017[/editline]
That bunch was probably going to end up in prison one way or another.
[QUOTE=srobins;51629900]I feel like every week Bernie says something stupid and pushes me further and further away. I liked him for being honest and passionate, but ever since his cowtowing to Clinton after the primary fiasco I've been losing the bern, hard.[/QUOTE]
God forbid he clarify the legal technicality that defines if its a hate crime, he was technically agreeing with a good portion of the thread here that it was politically motivated though
I do agree with the final ruling the targeting was hate crime
Honestly ever since Bernie pledged support for Hillary, his credibility has really started to drop.
That and the very convenient timing of him buying his third home at $600k is quite a gander for spectators.
[quote]The great thing about being an avowed socialist is that you get to posture as a self-righteous man of the people without foregoing the benefits of wealth. Take the case of Bernie Sanders, whose self-reported net worth was $528,014, yet who just spent a reported $600,000 on a summer “vacation home” with 500 feet of lake frontage on gorgeous Lake Champlain.
What kind of elderly couple spends more than their net worth on a vacation home? Certainly, at a minimum, we can say a couple with no financial worries.[/quote]
[url]http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/10/bernie-sanders-buys-summer-home/[/url]
[QUOTE=dai;51630293]God forbid he clarify the legal technicality that defines if its a hate crime, he was technically agreeing with a good portion of the thread here that it was politically motivated though
I do agree with the final ruling the targeting was hate crime[/QUOTE]
I just think it's stupid and most of all unnecessary for him to try and downplay the racial influence. I mean what is even the point of saying that?
Also the family of the victim made a public statement today.
[url]https://www.facebook.com/WGNTV/videos/10154135801297411/?autoplay_reason=all_page_organic_allowed&video_container_type=0&video_creator_product_type=2&app_id=2392950137&live_video_guests=0[/url]
[QUOTE=Tudd;51630315]Honestly ever since Bernie pledged support for Hillary, his credibility has really started to drop.
That and the very convenient timing of him buying his third home at $600k is quite a gander for spectators.
[url]http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/10/bernie-sanders-buys-summer-home/[/url][/QUOTE]
I for one, think Bernie is allowed to buy a house.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51630315]Honestly ever since Bernie pledged support for Hillary, his credibility has really started to drop.
That and the very convenient timing of him buying his third home at $600k is quite a gander for spectators.
[URL]http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/10/bernie-sanders-buys-summer-home/[/URL][/QUOTE]
How though? He was able to get certain ideas of his into the DNC platform and realized that a Hillary presidency would be more bearable than a Trump presidency.
Also by convenient timing are you suggesting some weird conspiracy bullshit of him being paid off or something, despite the article saying that his wife inherited a home they couldn't use, and sold it?
[QUOTE=srobins;51630317]I just think it's stupid and most of all unnecessary for him to try and downplay the racial influence. I mean what is even the point of saying that?[/QUOTE]
An awkward attempt at disassociation that people who hate Trump/white people so much would do such a thing eventually.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51630327]How though? He was able to get certain ideas of his into the DNC platform and realized that a Hillary presidency would be more bearable than a Trump presidency.
Also by convenient timing are you suggesting some weird conspiracy bullshit of him being paid off or something, despite the article saying that his wife inherited a home they couldn't use, and sold it?[/QUOTE]
Tudd seems like the kind of guy to listen to True Capitalist Radio unironically.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51630315]Honestly ever since Bernie pledged support for Hillary, his credibility has really started to drop.[/QUOTE]
Not really. Hillary, for all her flaws, didn't even come close to being as objectively terrible as Trump is. It's perfectly acceptable to support the lesser of two evils if a better alternative doesn't exist.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51630315]That and the very convenient timing of him buying his third home at $600k is quite a gander for spectators.
[url]http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/10/bernie-sanders-buys-summer-home/[/url][/QUOTE]
Yes, he sold a house that he owned and bought a new one closer to Vermont. So what? Did you even read your source?
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;51630327]How though? He was able to get certain ideas of his into the DNC platform and realized that a Hillary presidency would be more bearable than a Trump presidency.
[/quote]
Well core Bernie fans are pretty much socialist and die-hards. So just by observation of what I have seen on comments from places like /r/politics and his reddit, people were quite dismayed and disappointed. Not really enthused to move on.
[quote]
Also by convenient timing are you suggesting some weird conspiracy bullshit of him being paid off or something, despite the article saying that his wife inherited a home they couldn't use, and sold it?[/QUOTE]
Abit two fold, it doesn't play well with some of his core supporters because they will see it as too juxtaposing for a socialist lifestyle, and alot of them would think that train of thought yes.
For me personally though, I can only imagine that he got some benefits (not buying that whole house tho) to play along with the Hillary campaign. Now you will counter he played along with his opposition to Trump, but I think better that after the DNC leaks showing collusion and him obviously against the establishment there probably was some smoothing over.
[editline]5th January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=AaronM202;51630352]Tudd seems like the kind of guy to listen to True Capitalist Radio unironically.[/QUOTE]
Is that a thing lol?
[QUOTE=Tudd;51630386]
For me personally though, I can only imagine that he got some benefits (not buying that whole house tho) to play along with the Hillary campaign. Now you will counter he played along with his opposition to Trump, but I think better that after the DNC leaks showing collusion and him obviously against the establishment there probably was some smoothing over.[/QUOTE]
This is a silly conspiracy theory. They bought a house with the money from selling the house they inherited. It must be exhausting leaping to these conclusions all the time.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51630422]Well I agree with that. I did read the same source I posted. If you read what I wrote you could see what I mean for myself personally.[/QUOTE]
I...uh, okay? You might need to watch less Trump speeches, his word salad is creeping into you.
[QUOTE=Lambeth;51630417]This is a silly conspiracy theory. They bought a house with the money from selling the house they inherited. It must be exhausting leaping to these conclusions all the time.[/QUOTE]
Well I agree with that. I did read the same source I posted. If you read what I wrote you could see what I mean for myself personally.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51630386]Well core Bernie fans are pretty much socialist and die-hards. So just by observation of what I have seen on comments from places like /r/politics and his reddit, people were quite dismayed and disappointed. Not really enthused to move on.
Abit two fold, it doesn't play well with some of his core supporters because they will see it as too juxtaposing for a socialist lifestyle, and alot of them would think that train of thought yes.
[B]For me personally though, I can only imagine that he got some benefits (not buying that whole house tho) to play along with the Hillary campaign. Now you will counter he played along with his opposition to Trump, but I think better that after the DNC leaks showing collusion and him obviously against the establishment there probably was some smoothing over.[/B]
[/QUOTE]Compelling evidence.
And I dunno the sanders for president subreddit reopened and is consistently hitting the front page. He still has plenty of clout if we measure this shit by reddit terms.
Also:
[thumb]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b5/2a/b0/b52ab0022badfc6f34541fb5b69b6340.png[/thumb]
He's doing just fine if we're talking from a social democrat perspective, which is what he and most of his supporters are. Someone with that wealth is hardly the problem in their eyes, and someone like that would still be in a high tax bracket under their systems.
And from a socialist perspective, having money isn't the problem in their eyes either. The problem they have is the exploitation that wealth usually comes from that is caused by extracting surplus value from employees and paying them the least you can get away with as an employer. There's forms of socialism such as market socialism that allow and even intend for people to become wealthier than others, because that's not actually the core issue Marx had.
[QUOTE=Judas;51624049]imagine how scary it must be to be a non-trump-supporter[/QUOTE]
Non-trump-supporter here, not afraid, it's easier when you don't care about politics.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51630315]Honestly ever since Bernie pledged support for Hillary, his credibility has really started to drop.
[/QUOTE]
Why? She was the closest candidate to what he represented. Had she campaigned better and maybe didn't call people a group of deploreables we wouldn't be worrying about Obamacare and Planned Parenthood being thrown out the window.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51630315]Honestly ever since Bernie pledged support for Hillary, his credibility has really started to drop.
That and the very convenient timing of him buying his third home at $600k is quite a gander for spectators.
[URL]http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/10/bernie-sanders-buys-summer-home/[/URL][/QUOTE]
Donald Trump lives in a gold plated penthouse and Clinton has multiple mansions. Sanders isn't a pauper but I don't really see how this is supposed to degrade his credibility in the eyes of anyone who wasn't already content.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51630386]Well core Bernie fans are pretty much socialist and die-hards.[/QUOTE]
Stop browsing t_d and /ptg/, its causing you to say ridiculous things
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51629264]I genuinely don't understand how someone can do something so revolting and still act like this.[/QUOTE]
If they feel it was a good thing to do, it's not hard.
With all this anti trump, anti white anti meritocracy nonsense going around, is it really any surprise?
[url]http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/sep/14/michael-steven-sandford-would-be-trump-assassin-en/[/url]
I mean look what happened with this guy. From what i understand, totally normal if isolated guy who never lifted a finger against anyone. He then moves in with a super duper radical feminist, surrounded by "Trump is literally hitler" talk, and that climate was enough to make him think trying to shoot the guy was a good idea.
People don't do bad things for no reason. To these people, all the "Trump is a racist so and so and so and so" talk is true, and whitey is the oppressor. They were punishing this person for what they felt was the crime of representing trump and the great racist menace of america.
Now that doesn't make it true, and they should be put in jail until they rot, but this is what all this ridiculous dishonest rhetoric is doing to people. And this is not ok.
This is why truth is the highest value. Because when you abandon it, your beliefs, morale structures and map of operation in the world no longer reflects reality. And that's how evil acts like this happen.
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