Four Chicago teens in custody after livestreaming kidnap and torture of disabled person
447 replies, posted
[QUOTE=bitches;51624444]So you think Trump winning is what caused them to revel in the act of torture?[/QUOTE]
Yep.
[QUOTE=Conscript;51624449]Political self righteousness probably caused them to feel okay with acts of violence, yea. Wouldn't be the first time in history[/QUOTE]
You said it better than I could.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624325]They could have attacked him for being white and shouted "Fuck Trump" because he was white and they assumed he voted for Trump. That's not a motivation. Theres nothing that stops me from being kidnapped and assaulted and during the assault invoking Trump.[/QUOTE]
The motivation could very well be based on the fairly common narrative on the left about white men being the racist oppressors who elected Trump.
[QUOTE=Conscript;51624449]Political self righteousness probably caused them to feel okay with acts of violence, yea. Wouldn't be the first time in history[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Gubbinz96;51624454]Yep.
You said it better than I could.[/QUOTE]
It's scary to think that all that separates you two from torturing other people is not feeling politically self-righteous.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51624459]The motivation could very well be based on the fairly common narrative on the left about white men being the racist oppressors who elected Trump.[/QUOTE]
Emphasis on could, and I don't think that narrative is all that common
People shouldn't take either trump or anti-trump attacks as evidence that one [I]entire[/I] political spectrum is either fucked or is trying to paint the other side as fucked.
Unless you've personally interviewed or polled every single person who's left-wing, right-wing or centrist, you're oversimplifying and generalising the problems to an extreme. Stop.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624464]Emphasis on could, and I don't think that narrative is all that common[/QUOTE]
Interestingly enough, I was just listening to the co-founders and leaders of the BLM group Campaign Zero at the Oxford Union, and they specifically blamed white men, as a group, for oppression of minorities. ([URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xHVTa5C0Dc[/URL])
"I hear the word racism, but I don't hear the words white male supremacy... If we do not clearly, appropriately, and accurately define the culprit, you're going to always be going after the wrong culprit, and unfortunately I sense, and I'm sort of controversial in this in a sort of generational type thing; in that some of us are trying to soften the blow. I believe in putting the blame where the blame should be, but in order for us to do that we need to understand history. We have to understand where things come from. White male supremacy is the culprit because you do not see black officers killing white boys." *applause* (00:07:27 in the above video)
They also kept with the classics like black people not being able to be racist because they don't have any power
I wouldn't be surprised to find similar beliefs in those who look up to these leaders.
[QUOTE=bitches;51624460]It's scary to think that all that separates you two from torturing other people is not feeling politically self-righteous.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure that made more sense in your head
This thread is pretty much SH in a nutshell, jesus
Didn't we have this EXACT same argument when the people who attacked a guy during a traffic argument said something about Trump?
[QUOTE=Conscript;51624475]I'm sure that made more sense in your head[/QUOTE]
I asked what it was that made you guys believe that recent politics caused these criminals to enjoy torturing other people, and the only answer I've gotten is that they felt politically self-righteous.
If that isn't it, it's still up to you to demonstrate by what means you blame politics for this crime.
[QUOTE=Judas;51624049]imagine how scary it must be to be a non-trump-supporter[/QUOTE]
...? The same?
What the fuck are you implying? That's it's somehow more "deserved"?
Amazing how some people are able to just pass off a bunch of dickheads screaming FUCK TRUMP and FUCK WHITES at a tied up white person as them just being hoodrats instead of there being any political or racial motivation.
As said, imagine if a bunch of white people kidnapped a black person and started saying FUCK HILLARY and FUCK BLACKS, I doubt many people would look at that in the same way.
I hope someone runs one of these cunts over. I don't even give a shit about it being "Edgy"
[QUOTE=Conscript;51624429]This is going to be considered a hate crime right[/QUOTE]
Probably not, it's generally quite difficult to get hate crime charges to stick. Illinois doesn't even have a political affiliation element to their hatecrime laws.
[QUOTE=Conscript;51624475]I'm sure that made more sense in your head[/QUOTE]
Four days in and we have the most ironic post of 2017.
[QUOTE=bitches;51624487]I asked what it was that made you guys believe that recent politics caused these criminals to enjoy torturing other people, and the only answer I've gotten is that they felt politically self-righteous.
If that isn't it, it's still up to you to demonstrate by what means you blame politics for this crime.[/QUOTE]
Because politics makes people willing to commit acts of violence they wouldn't otherwise do, this election had a lot of excesses in the streets and there's no reason to chalk this up to just any other 'crime' committed by sadists or something, because bare minimum it's a hate crime which is usually political
There's really no mental gymnastics you can do to make a white trump supporter feel like this is just an apolitical crime by people who like to torture
[QUOTE=Tasm;51624496]...? The same?
What the fuck are you implying? That's it's somehow more "deserved"?[/QUOTE]
He's talking about the upcoming concentration camps that are going to be put into place January 20th. Haven't you heard?
[QUOTE=bitches;51624460]It's scary to think that all that separates you two from torturing other people is not feeling politically self-righteous.[/QUOTE]
Now you're making a leap in logic that is ridiculous and I'm going to call you an idiot for that.
bitches, you're a idiot.
Inventing innuendo's about someone whose more honest and realistic in their observations than you isn't going help.
This is directed at all saying it is not politically motivated, what would you need as proof to make a violent attack like this politically motivated.
[QUOTE=Araknid;51624497]Amazing how some people are able to just pass off a bunch of dickheads screaming FUCK TRUMP and FUCK WHITES at a tied up white person as them just being hoodrats instead of there being any political or racial motivation.
As said, imagine if a bunch of white people kidnapped a black person and started saying FUCK HILLARY and FUCK BLACKS, I doubt many people would look at that in the same way.[/QUOTE]
I'd be reacting the same way. I certainly wouldn't have made an overly dramatic "This is why us Hillary supporters are utterly terrified" post.
[QUOTE=Conscript;51624514]Because politics makes people willing to commit acts of violence they wouldn't otherwise do, this election had a lot of excesses in the streets and there's no reason to chalk this up to just any other 'crime' committed by sadists or something, because bare minimum it's a hate crime which is usually political
There's really no mental gymnastics you can do to make a white trump supporter feel like this is just an apolitical crime by people who like to torture[/QUOTE]
I didn't ask you to repeat yourself, I asked you to explain by what means politics cause the enjoyment of torture.
So they stole a car, abducted a random stranger, scalped him, and it's not possible they were already violent idiots without Trump as a motivation? What if they're just fucking stupid and thought "fuck trump" was a funny thing to yell at a white person?
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[QUOTE=Araknid;51624497]As said, imagine if a bunch of white people kidnapped a black person and started saying FUCK HILLARY and FUCK BLACKS, I doubt many people would look at that in the same way.[/QUOTE]
If they had abducted and scalped a complete stranger off the streets and yelled "FUCK BLACKS" or "VOTE TRUMP", yea, I'd sooner say they're violent, idiot rednecks with many mental issues and little to do with Trump.
Man, this dude had nothing to do with Trump. I doubt he even voted.
Scalp the right people next time. Maybe a Walton.
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;51624526]So they stole a car, abducted a random stranger, scalped him, and it's not possible they were already violent idiots without Trump as a motivation? What if they're just fucking stupid and thought "fuck trump" was a funny thing to yell at a white person?[/QUOTE]
It clearly wasn't a "random stranger." It was specifically a white person.
I'm sure they were already violent idiots, but that doesn't explain this specific incident. Generally violent people can also commit racist crimes.
I would definitely agree that they're the type of people to do this anyway. To say that you can kidnap and torture people only because of politics is insane. You need [I]some[/I] existing willingness for violence.
But on the other hand, you can't rule politics out entirely.
It's definitely not the main cause of this, but it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back.
Maybe. We can't really know either way, if this was the last 5% motivation they needed to go over 100%, or if it pushed them from 150% to 151%.
Although it is likely that they would have done it sometime soon anyway. Not 100% likely, but pretty likely.
Also: even if someone's motivation is irrational and unjustified, or if what they do wouldn't actually help their motivation, that doesn't mean it's not a motivation.
Also, no, there is not going to be some genocide of Trump supporters.
[QUOTE=bitches;51624522]I didn't ask you to repeat yourself, I asked you to explain by what means politics cause the enjoyment of torture.[/QUOTE]
Deteriorating race relations does funny things, dehumanizing the other is one of them
[QUOTE=Conscript;51624514]Because politics makes people willing to commit acts of violence they wouldn't otherwise do, this election had a lot of excesses in the streets and there's no reason to chalk this up to just any other 'crime' committed by sadists or something, [B]because bare minimum it's a hate crime which is usually political [/B][/QUOTE]
Wikipedia says about 40% are racially motivated and 20% are sexual preference. Most state jurisdictions don't even recognize political affiliation as a motivation for a hate crime so I really doubt this.
[QUOTE=Conscript;51624514]There's really no mental gymnastics you can do to make a white trump supporter feel like this is just an apolitical crime by people who like to torture[/QUOTE]
Similarly, there are no mental gymnastics a Trump supporter can perform to make me feel like this attack was initiated because of the victims support of Trump.
[QUOTE]Similarly, there are no mental gymnastics a Trump supporter can perform to make me feel like this attack was initiated because of the victims support of Trump.[/quote]
You mean other than his whiteness being automatically identified with support for a nationalistic GOP president-elect and taking perverse pleasure in making him recant it
Please, between the whitelash thesis and the accusations of racism towards a person that's otherwise at most a civic nationalist, I think we know how much people are thinking in terms of tribalism and race. This is going to be rightly interpreted as an excess of deteriorating race relations, certainly so if we interpret 'trump supporter punches x' in that light.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51624542]It clearly wasn't a "random stranger." It was specifically a white person.[/QUOTE]
Not because he was disabled, or maybe standing near the car when they stole it? Did you ask them?
Looking forward to 8 years of priceless comedy
[QUOTE=TurtleeyFP;51624568]Not because he was disabled, or maybe standing near the car when they stole it? Did you ask them?[/QUOTE]
He was an acquaintance of one of the suspects, which makes things even more confusing.
so like
is there any such thing as a politically motivated attack
if several people screaming about their political motivations isn't enough for the attack to be politically motivated, what does it take
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