Four Chicago teens in custody after livestreaming kidnap and torture of disabled person
447 replies, posted
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;51624580]so like
is there any such thing as a politically motivated attack
if several people screaming about their political motivations isn't enough for the attack to be politically motivated, what does it take[/QUOTE]
no no man its just an EXCUSE,you gotta look DEEPER
crimes like this are as much motivated by fear, ignorance, and hatred as they are any political ideology
[QUOTE=bitches;51624099]they did this because they're violent people that take pleasure in harming others, like many others throughout the world that use religion and politics as their excuse
if not for the election it would have been something else they branded it with[/QUOTE]
You can't just say this. People on this forum say this all the time.
"People just use politics/race/religion as an excuse to do violence. They are already violent and they would just find another excuse anyway."
YOU CANNOT JUST ASSUME THIS PREMISE. This is a huge problem with Sensationalist Headlines. I see this line get spouted every day and whenever I call somebody out I get no answers. Please somebody, tell me why politics/religion is just an excuse for violence. Justify that for me. Because I'm going to take these peoples' word for it otherwise.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624594]You can't just say this. People on this forum say this all the time.
"People just use politics/race/religion as an excuse to do violence. They are already violent and they would just find another excuse anyway."
YOU CANNOT JUST ASSUME THIS PREMISE. This is a huge problem with Sensationalist Headlines. I see this line get spouted every day and whenever I call somebody out I get no answers. Please somebody, tell me why politics/religion is just an excuse for violence. Justify that for me. Because I'm going to take these peoples' word for it otherwise.[/QUOTE]
we just cant hurt peoples feelings,its rude
[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;51624580]so like
is there any such thing as a politically motivated attack
if several people screaming about their political motivations isn't enough for the attack to be politically motivated, what does it take[/QUOTE]
They weren't screaming about their political motivations. That would have made it pretty cut and dry.
[QUOTE=bitches;51624170]can you propose any means by which these criminals determined that the disabled man was a trump supporter?
if not, then there is no reason to believe that they honestly believed their excuse and as such it is not the real motive
[editline]a[/editline]
trying to change the subject to one of supposed hypocrisy is evading the argument[/QUOTE]
The man they attacked is white. The majority of whites voted for Trump. Bam.
That's all the justification these people needed.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624607]The man they attacked is white. The majority of whites voted for Trump. Bam.
That's all the justification these people needed.[/QUOTE]
Good luck proving this in court.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624610]Good luck proving this in court.[/QUOTE]
Its obviously not a 100 percent provable theory. But he asked for a reason the attackers could have used to assume the victim was a Trump supported, and I provided one.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624603]They weren't screaming about their political motivations. That would have made it pretty cut and dry.[/QUOTE]
i disagree, screaming "fuck donald trump" seems to be fairly political to me.
Whether or not anyone likes it there HAS been a shitload of anti-trump violence really
A lot of people who already were massive shitheads seem to feel its a good excuse for being an even bigger shit head, as if they are morally justified
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51624592]crimes like this are as much motivated by fear, ignorance, and hatred as they are any political ideology[/QUOTE]
Do you have any reasoning behind this? Or are you just saying things?
if some white boys kidnapped a black person after obama had been elected, tortured them, and screamed "FUCK OBAMA" and "FUCK NIGGERS" at them, i would assume it had racial and political motivations as well
[QUOTE=Tarver;51624571]Looking forward to 8 years of priceless comedy[/QUOTE]
Depends on what your definition of "priceless comedy" is with people actually physically harming one another just because of their beliefs and / or how the candidate they were rooting for didn't win.
The future of the US isn't looking too bright at the moment for countless reasons.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51624622]i disagree, screaming "fuck donald trump" seems to be fairly political to me.[/QUOTE]
"political" is pretty general though and doesn't speak to their motivations.
It could have been politically motivated, I'm just not seeing in the video anything that would cause a Trump supporter to be terrified.
[QUOTE=J!NX;51624623]Whether or not you like it there HAS been a shitload of anti-trump violence really[/QUOTE]
I'd hope most people don't like it, but that's because he won. We would be seeing the opposite of Clinton won.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51624627]if some white boys kidnapped a black person after obama had been elected, tortured them, and screamed "FUCK OBAMA" and "FUCK NIGGERS" at them, i would assume it had racial and political motivations as well[/QUOTE]
Well I for one am just glad we got through the unfalsifiable hypotheticals that are created purely in an attempt to make people who disagree with the conclusions we reach appear hypocritical.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51624627]if some white boys kidnapped a black person after obama had been elected, tortured them, and screamed "FUCK OBAMA" and "FUCK NIGGERS" at them, i would assume it had racial and political motivations as well[/QUOTE]
No way! Their politics would just be an excuse! We wouldn't be able to call them racists. Racism would just be a cover for their violence.
[editline]4th January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624633]Well I for one am just glad we got through the unfalsifiable hypotheticals that are created purely in an attempt to make people who disagree with the conclusions we reach appear hypocritical.[/QUOTE]
So you're agreeing that you're wrong and hypocritical?...
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624636]No way! Their politics would just be an excuse! We wouldn't be able to call them racists. Racism would just be a cover for their violence.[/QUOTE]
Based purely on the video, I would imagine race was definitely more of an element than political affiliation. However I'm not even sure about that given the fact that the victim and one of the suspects allegedly knew one another prior to the attack.
I just think it's too early to rush to conclusions (victimhood).
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624629]I'd hope most people don't like it, but that's because he won. We would be seeing the opposite of Clinton won.[/QUOTE]
Do you have any reasoning behind this? Or are you just saying things?
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624636]
So you're agreeing that you're wrong and hypocritical?...[/QUOTE]
what
[quote]It could have been politically motivated, I'm just not seeing in the video anything that would cause a Trump supporter to be terrified. [/quote]
What more does it take to convince you that this is cause a trump supporter to be terrified, besides a guy kidnapping specifically a white guy, torturing him, and saying 'fuck donald trump, fuck white people'
Please, don't convince people progressivism is actually a mental disorder
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624640]Do you have any reasoning behind this? Or are you just saying things?[/QUOTE]
It was an ugly election and I don't think people on the left/left leaning independents are any more predisposed to violence than people on the right/right leaning independents. Though now that I think about it the right tends to hold more gun owners so it could have potentially been worse.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624629]"political" is pretty general though and doesn't speak to their motivations.
It could have been politically motivated, I'm just not seeing in the video anything that would cause a Trump supporter to be terrified.
I'd hope most people don't like it, but that's because he won. We would be seeing the opposite of Clinton won.[/QUOTE]
Screaming fuck white people, fuck trump, and torturing a person is not scary to you?
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624640]Do you have any reasoning behind this? Or are you just saying things?[/QUOTE]
what the fuck is this thread anymore
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624629]"political" is pretty general though and doesn't speak to their motivations.
It could have been politically motivated, I'm just not seeing in the video anything that would cause a Trump supporter to be terrified.[/QUOTE]
the part where he was apparently being tortured for being white and an alleged trump voter would be pretty frightening to me if i were a trump voter, even if their true motivation were "we just want to hurt someone, it doesn't matter who". yeah they're definitely broken people, but i am not sure if they would have done this had they not had some sort of extra motivation, in this case trump winning the presidency.
[QUOTE=Conscript;51624648]What more does it take to convince you of the above than a guy kidnapping specifically a white guy, torturing him, and saying 'fuck donald trump, fuck white people'
Please, don't convince people progressivism is actually a mental disorder[/QUOTE]
I'm not a progressive but thanks for throwing labels around Mr. "We have to fight tribalism by electing Donald Trump as President".
And I outlined that exact scenario already. There is nothing that stops me (a white guy) from being kidnapped, tortured, and being told "Fuck Trump and fuck white people". They clearly aren't doing it because of my vociferous support for Trump.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624633]Well I for one am just glad we got through the unfalsifiable hypotheticals that are created purely in an attempt to make people who disagree with the conclusions we reach appear hypocritical.[/QUOTE]
i was posting that in an attempt to show i am not holding hypocritical opinions rather than trying to catch anyone else out or whatever
[QUOTE=dai;51624655]what the fuck is this thread anymore[/QUOTE]
People in this thread are just dropping their little claims without any reasoning to back it up. I'm just gonna point that out for the viewers.
[QUOTE=Judas;51624049]imagine how scary it must be to be a non-trump-supporter[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624212]Even if I agreed that this was a politically motivated, how is this an indictment against "the left side"? Is the takeaway that the left is inherently more violent than the right? [/QUOTE]
Still waiting for a video of trump supporters attacking people like this. I've seen several of racist idiots attacking trump supporters on video, and only heard about hoaxes going in the other direction. I've been saying this for a few threads along these lines now, either give some proof that it's "on both sides" or accept that right now the anti-trump group is indeed far more violent than it's opposite. Maybe trump supporters would have became violent if clinton won. That didn't happen, and the reality is completely different. Right now as far as im concerned we've had numerous video of violence in one direction and 0~ in the other.
[QUOTE=bitches;51624053]you're missing the point if you think they did this because of politics[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624248]There is no overwelming evidence. This attack was taken entirely out of context. Nothing in either of the videos linked in OP seems to indicate that the attack was politically motivated. I think racially motivated is a pretty reasonable assumption to make.
I don't think you are being any more or less intellectually honest than most of the other posters thus far.[/QUOTE]
We had a thread not long ago where someone wrote trump on the wall of a church before torching it, i don't recall anyone saying "surely this was just an insane person looking for an excuse to burn down a church". Except, after it was proven a false flag, then people said that. Only then. You should be able to understand why some posters may be starting to get irritated with the usual course of these threads.
There are a few posters in this thread that are bordering on delusional levels of denial of *something*. Moving on, people are flexible. You aren't just born "crazy person likely to torture people", and ordinary people can be bent in odd ways over relatively short periods of time. There's a reason why entrapment is a valid legal defense, under pressure innocents can become criminals under no fault of their own. This obviously isn't entrapment, but it operates on a similar understanding of people.
[QUOTE=ShukaidoX;51624138]Looks like electing a racist, bigoted, xenophobic demagogue didn't sit too well with minorities. Who would have thought? Not that these clowns are justified in any way, shape, or form. This guy probably didn't even vote for Trump.[/QUOTE]
Imagine you have a mindset like this person. There are a bunch of numbnuts around you, your family, your friends, entire neighborhood saying donald trump is satan incarnate and plans to destroy your way of life. You spend a month after the election hearing this same thing over and over again about how trump will do *something* bad to you and everyone in your community, people get riled up, racism ferments. You get drunk. You and your friends stumble accross some vulnerable looking white guy, and the mob mentality leads you to beating the shit out of him in a corner while filming it. You think you're justified, you think your right, after all whitey voted for trump, whitey wants to destroy you, this person has white skin, certainly a mild beating is nothing compared to the horrors you will face under a trump presidency.
The whole "donald trump is satan" thing is a bad idea, a very bad idea, for the above reason.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624666]People in this thread are just dropping their little claims without any reasoning to back it up. I'm just gonna point that out for the viewers.[/QUOTE]
I think my reasoning is pretty solid. If you assume there are equal amounts of people on the left and right side of the political spectrum (with apolitical people who want to lash out either way as wildcards) it stands to reason there would be more cases of displeasure aimed at Trump and his supporters than to Clinton because Trump won the election. There is little reason for people to attack Clinton supporters/people on the left when she lost.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624682]I think my reasoning is pretty solid. If you assume there are equal amounts of people on the left and right side of the political spectrum (with apolitical people who want to lash out either way as wildcards) it stands to reason there would be more cases of displeasure aimed at Trump and his supporters than to Clinton because Trump won the election. There is little reason for people to attack Clinton supporters/people on the left when she lost.[/QUOTE]
That's not what you said. You said just as much violence would be aimed at Clinton supporters if she won.
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