Four Chicago teens in custody after livestreaming kidnap and torture of disabled person
447 replies, posted
I hope the four are justly punished in court and that the man is getting the help he needs after such a situation.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;51624674]Still waiting for a video of trump supporters attacking people like this. I've seen several of racist idiots attacking trump supporters on video, and only heard about hoaxes going in the other direction. I've been saying this for a few threads along these lines now, either give some proof that it's "on both sides" or accept that right now the anti-trump group is indeed far more violent than it's opposite. Maybe trump supporters would have became violent if clinton won. That didn't happen, and the reality is completely different. Right now as far as im concerned we've had numerous video of violence in one direction and 0~ in the other. [/QUOTE]
Just to be clear, are you observing more attacks by anti-Trump people or are you implying that anti-Trump people are inherently more violent (capable of more violence) than Trump supporters? The language is key here. I agree with the former.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;51624674]We had a thread not long ago where someone wrote trump on the wall of a church before torching it, i don't recall anyone saying "surely this was just an insane person looking for an excuse to burn down a church". Except, after it was proven a false flag, then people said that. Only then. You should be able to understand why some posters may be starting to get irritated with the usual course of these threads.[/QUOTE]
There were actually a number of posters suggesting it was a false flag based on absolutely zero evidence. So no, you didn't see anyone attempting to make it about an insane person; they logically polevaulted over that narrative into another one.
Frankly I don't care how some posters are starting to feel irritated. If you are going out of your way to pursue victimhood I'm going to be skeptical until evidence presents itself.
[QUOTE=Mattk50;51624674]There are a few posters in this thread that are bordering on delusional levels of denial of *something*. Moving on, people are flexible. You aren't just born "crazy person likely to torture people", and ordinary people can be bent in odd ways over relatively short periods of time. There's a reason why entrapment is a valid legal defense, under pressure innocents can become criminals under no fault of their own. This obviously isn't entrapment, but it operates on a similar understanding of people.
Imagine you have a mindset like this person. There are a bunch of numbnuts around you, your family, your friends, entire neighborhood saying donald trump is satan incarnate and plans to destroy your way of life. You spend a month after the election hearing this same thing over and over again about how trump will do *something* bad to you and everyone in your community, people get riled up, racism ferments. You get drunk. You and your friends stumble accross some vulnerable looking white guy, and the mob mentality leads you to beating the shit out of him in a corner while filming it. You think you're justified, you think your right, after all whitey voted for trump, whitey wants to destroy you, this person has white skin, certainly a mild beating is nothing compared to the horrors you will face under a trump presidency.
The whole "donald trump is satan" thing is a bad idea, a very bad idea, for the above reason.[/QUOTE]
It's certainly a possible conclusion to reach. I never said it could not have been a politically motivated attack. I was just saying nothing in the videos we have seen makes this explicitly clear, and particularly nothing that should make a Trump supporter feel terrified.
It's fucking disgusting they targetted a disabled person for their jollies.
Evil fuckers, hope they get a harsh prison sentence.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624691]That's not what you said. You said just as much violence would be aimed at Clinton supporters if she won.[/QUOTE]
Yes I did.
Are you okay?
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624610]Good luck proving this in court.[/QUOTE]
Maybe them shouting "fuck Trump" and "fuck white people" will help out the jury. Dude you are straight up in denial.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624732]Yes I did.
Are you okay?[/QUOTE]
This:
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624629]I'd hope most people don't like it, but that's because he won. We would be seeing the opposite of Clinton won.[/QUOTE]
Is not the same as this:
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624682]There is little reason for people to attack Clinton supporters/people on the left when she lost.[/QUOTE]
So you still haven't given any reasoning behind your first claim.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624754]This:
Is not the same as this:
So you still haven't given any reasoning behind your first claim.[/QUOTE]
That's my reasoning. You quoted it. Both generalized groups are equally capable of violence but obviously you aren't going to see anti-Clinton violence perpetrated if she (and by extension, her supporters/presumed supporters) are no longer a threat.
[QUOTE=italics560;51624750]Maybe them shouting "fuck Trump" and "fuck white people" will help out the jury. Dude you are straight up in denial.[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting"]Jim David Adkisson[/URL] specifically said the motivation for his attack was to kill liberals and Democrats and wasn't found guilty of a hate crime. It's generally quite difficult to be charged with one in most places in the US, particularly when Illinois itself doesn't recognize political affiliation as a hate crime motivation.
What it does mention though is mental or physical disability. Maybe they kidnapped and tortured him because he was disabled?
Maybe if they said "Fuck Disableds!" I be more inclined to believe that.
[QUOTE=Tudd;51624186]I gotta say, this past week has astonished me how far people will justify news that shed bad light on the left side. [/QUOTE]
I'm still really interested in what you meant by this btw
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624795]That's my reasoning. You quoted it. Both generalized groups are equally capable of violence but obviously you aren't going to see anti-Clinton violence perpetrated if she (and by extension, her supporters/presumed supporters) are no longer a threat.[/quote]
Do you not see the difference between the two posts I quoted? Violence against Clinton supporters when she has lost =/= violence against Clinton supporters when she has won. You are interchanging the two scenarios. I don't even think you realize what you are doing here. Please read carefully.
[quote]
[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting"]Jim David Adkisson[/URL] specifically said the motivation for his attack was to kill liberals and Democrats and wasn't found guilty of a hate crime. It's generally quite difficult to be charged with one in most places in the US, particularly when Illinois itself doesn't recognize political affiliation as a hate crime motivation.
What it does mention though is mental or physical disability. Maybe they kidnapped and tortured him because he was disabled?[/QUOTE]
First of all, nobody here is trying to argue that there should be some hate speech verdict here. You just brought that up now.
Secondly, did you miss the part where they said "fuck white people"? Is that not hate speech?
[video=youtube;fDajmXg-wpg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDajmXg-wpg[/video]
This is the same guy being forced to drink toilet water he's beat by the same black people. He's also forced to say "Fuck Trump".
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624817]I'm still really interested in what you meant by this btw[/QUOTE]
Basically what is happening in this thread and others. I've noticed in Trump threads about business dealings like with Boeing and the most recent where people are coming up with some of the most ridiculous excuses on why it's awful. And even seen people say, "Don't normalize/treat this good!"
Basically just people speaking out of pure ideology then reasoning.
[editline]4th January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Procrastinate;51624820][video=youtube;fDajmXg-wpg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDajmXg-wpg[/video]
This is the same guy being forced to drink toilet water he's beat by the same black people. He's also forced to say "Fuck Trump".[/QUOTE]
It's just a excuse to be bad people!
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624626]Do you have any reasoning behind this? Or are you just saying things?[/QUOTE]
Do you have any reasoning to believe that fear, ignorance, and hatred are excluded from this crime?
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624818]Do you not see the difference between the two posts I quoted? Violence against Clinton supporters when she has lost =/= violence against Clinton supporters when she has won. You are interchanging the two scenarios. I don't even think you realize what you are doing here. Please read carefully.[/QUOTE]
I think you need to read more carefully. My point is abundantly clear and logically consistent. I'll try one more time but I'm running out of ways to simplify this.
You have anti-Trump people and anti-Clinton people. Both groups are equally predisposed to violence, whether that be rioting as a group or individual cases of assault, battery, etc. If Clinton loses, then the anti-Clinton people have already won. There is no longer a threat for them to attack (in their minds, defend themselves against). There is no reason to engage in violence because you already won. The anti-Trump people though now feel backed into a corner and feel like they have to lash out. This causes an imbalance of attacks based on loose affiliation. It would work the same way the opposite. If Clinton won then there would be no need for anti-Trump people to lash out.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624818]First of all, nobody here is trying to argue that there should be some hate speech verdict here. You just brought that up now.
Secondly, did you miss the part where they said "fuck white people"? Is that not hate speech?[/QUOTE]
I've already said that you could make the case that this was racially motivated a hell of a lot easier than it being politically motivated but either way you would need to conduct an investigation to be sure.
[editline]4th January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Tudd;51624839]Basically what is happening in this thread and others. I've noticed in Trump threads about business dealings like with Boeing and the most recent where people are coming up with some of the most ridiculous excuses on why it's awful. And even seen people say, "Don't normalize/treat this good!"
Basically just people speaking out of pure ideology then reasoning.[/QUOTE]
You are incredibly good at not answering questions. How does this news shed bad light on the left side?
[QUOTE=Tudd;51624839]It's just a excuse to be bad people![/QUOTE]
It's atleast as possible as your scenario wherein they attacked him for being a Trump supporter. We need to see what happens during and after an investigation by the authorities.
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51624867]I think you need to read more carefully. My point is abundantly clear and logically consistent. I'll try one more time but I'm running out of ways to simplify this.
You have anti-Trump people and anti-Clinton people. Both groups are equally predisposed to violence, whether that be rioting as a group or individual cases of assault, battery, etc. If Clinton loses, then the anti-Clinton people have already won. There is no longer a threat for them to attack (in their minds, defend themselves against). There is no reason to engage in violence because you already won. The anti-Trump people though now feel backed into a corner and feel like they have to lash out. This causes an imbalance of attacks based on loose affiliation. It would work the same way the opposite. If Clinton won then there would be no need for anti-Trump people to lash out.[/quote]
Well your original reply still doesn't make sense, but you've at least cleared up what you meant to say. My original point is that I don't think Trump voters would be just as violent if Clinton had won. That is the claim I wanted to hear your reasoning for.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624887]Well your original reply still doesn't make sense, but you've at least cleared up what you meant to say. My original point is that I don't think Trump voters would be just as violent if Clinton had won. That is the claim I wanted to hear your reasoning for.[/QUOTE]
So you would say violence is more of a thing that the left does, and not something the right does?
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624887]Well your original reply still doesn't make sense, but you've at least cleared up what you meant to say. My original point is that I don't think Trump voters would be just as violent if Clinton had won. That is the claim I wanted to hear your reasoning for.[/QUOTE]
Would be more straightfoward for you to offer insight into how you reached the conclusion that Trump supporters are inherently more altruistic than Clinton supporters.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51624864]Do you have any reasoning to believe that fear, ignorance, and hatred are excluded from this crime?[/QUOTE]
They are absolutely not excluded from this crime. I never said that and it doesn't contradict my view. But I don't think that those things are equally to blame for the crime, and that is what you originally said.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51624864]Do you have any reasoning to believe that fear, ignorance, and hatred are excluded from this crime?[/QUOTE]
How is that relevant? Every crime includes one or all of those things in some way or another.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624887]Well your original reply still doesn't make sense, but you've at least cleared up what you meant to say. My original point is that I don't think Trump voters would be just as violent if Clinton had won. That is the claim I wanted to hear your reasoning for.[/QUOTE]
Yeaaaaah how about we not go there, for everyone's sake. We can't, and won't, know because it never happened.
All that hypothetical situation does is cause everyone in the thread to repeat their view of the opposition, which I think SH has plenty enough of already
I love this new theory about how if Clinton would have won the Trump Supporters would have truely came out and attacked.
Mate, the mainstream opinion has been the exact opposite since the election results. It was suppose to be that Trump supporters felt "empowered" to abuse.
I can tell you that a lot of Trump supporters didn't really expect to win. Highly motivated, but all the polls were heavily against us.
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624901]They are absolutely not excluded from this crime. I never said that and it doesn't contradict my view. But I don't think that those things are equally to blame for the crime, and that is what you originally said.[/QUOTE]
So emotional factors that determine how a person acts and reacts to things are of no value in deciding their motivations in regards to a crime? Even a court of law would laugh at that.
I am not justifying what they did, I am not excusing it. I am not saying it's okay. I'm saying there's more than [B]pure[/B] political ideology at work here.
Can you elaborate on how you believe this to be purely a partisan action of the left ideology and not an action of "fear, ignorance, or hatred"?
You have a hell of an argument to make so I'm excited.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51624910]How is that relevant? Every crime includes one or all of those things in some way or another.[/QUOTE]
So to act as if this is an act from the "left" and not one of those things or a culmination of them wouldn't be disingenuous?
[QUOTE=Procrastinate;51624909][url]https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/816822258987507712?lang=en[/url][/QUOTE]
Just kids being kids my ass.
[QUOTE=Procrastinate;51624909][url]https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/816822258987507712?lang=en[/url][/QUOTE]
This is the clown they put in after the Laquan McDonald incident. They scapegoated McCarthy and shoehorned in a black man to appease the protesters.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51624924]So to act as if this is an act from the "left" and not one of those things wouldn't be disingenuous?[/QUOTE]
Why are those exclusive reasons? Fear, ignorance, and hatred can all be based on leftist (or any other ideology) ideology.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51624928]Why are those exclusive reasons? Fear, ignorance, and hatred can all be based on leftist (or any other ideology) ideology.[/QUOTE]
edited
[editline]4th January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pantz Master;51624931]Why don't you re-read my post there bud.[/QUOTE]
So what is "to blame"? Leftist ideology or the emotional states of criminals?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51624915]So emotional factors that determine how a person acts and reacts to things are of no value in deciding their motivations in regards to a crime? Even a court of law would laugh at that.
I am not justifying what they did, I am not excusing it. I am not saying it's okay. I'm saying there's more than [B]pure[/B] political ideology at work here.
Can you elaborate on how you believe this to be purely a partisan action of the left ideology and not an action of "fear, ignorance, or hatred"?
You have a hell of an argument to make so I'm excited.[/QUOTE]
Why don't you re-read my post there bud.
[QUOTE=Procrastinate;51624909][url]https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/816822258987507712?lang=en[/url][/QUOTE]
jesus H please bring McCarthy back already
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